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The Purpose Of The Orion?


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#81 Kjudoon

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:42 AM

View PostLyoto Machida, on 02 June 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

Only read pages 1 and 4...does nobody run the Orion as an LRM boat???

My V (LRMs) is at 2.48 KDR (104/42) with an average damage per game of 506.
The VA (LRMs) is currently at 2.0 KDR (60/30) with 428 damage/game.
The K, on the other hand (which I usually run as a Marauder), is only at 1.67 (10/6) with 304 damage per game.

If I could run LRMs on the K, I would also. I do like the mini Atlas setup also but it's hard to pull myself away from the thought of running a Marauder (2 PPC/2 ML/AC5) on the battlefield.

Oh yeah... The VA and K are excellent LRM platforms. I run the VA as a boat, and the K as LRM centric. Here's how they're turning out.

Orion VA (40lrms) KDR: 3.21
Orion K (30lrms) KDR: 1.10

Apparently having those extra 10 missiles per salvo, Artemis/TAG/BAP matters a lot. The K, was run as a poor man's Marauder too just didn't do as well so I converted it back over to an LRM centric but still heavy energy version and the KDR is back on the rise and fast.

#82 Alianton

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 04:25 PM

but it seems kinda wasted to use an orion as an lrm boat...

#83 IraqiWalker

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:34 PM

View PostAlianton, on 02 June 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

yeah iraqiwalker, i just tried the 4xMLs... freaking hot... I've now gone to AC10, LRMs and 2MLs with 2 standard Heatsinks (with one ton of AC10 replacing the SRM ammo)

I'm running mine with DHS. Helps quite a bit, especially if not fully elited.

LRMs are a good weapon for the Orions. Every single Orion can be an LRM boat or LRM platform. The VA is very comparable to my BLR-1S in payload and tons of ammo.

#84 Alianton

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:08 AM

oh ok. i'm still running that, saving up to 1.5mil to get DHS's and then i'll be happy. right now though, doing a lotta damage, between mid 200s with 1 kill 4 assists to 600 damage with 4 kills 3 assists. the ac/10 is awful fun, though i am really missing having some close range weapons. a stalker stood in my range when i had everything but my 2 MLs blown off, and he just stood there peeling me off with a couple small lasers T.T

#85 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:22 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 June 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'm running mine with DHS. Helps quite a bit, especially if not fully elited.


This to the max. Double heat sinks are a must on all 'mechs with how MWO handles heat capacity and heat sinking. Switching to doubles doubles the heat capacity and dissipation speed of all ten of the mandatory in-engine heat sinks just to begin with, which is huge.

View PostAlianton, on 03 June 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

but it seems kinda wasted to use an orion as an lrm boat...


So don't. Orions with LRMs work best when they have other weapons- use those other hardpoints. Whether it's the ON1-V Fireburst with its ER Larges to keep up the ranged damage after running dry of missiles or the ON1-VA Quarterback with its high mobility and LB10-X/2ML combination for mashing lights and hunting pre-crippled 'mechs, there's absolutely no way I'd ever run an Orion as a boat, of all things. If you want a Heavy that's boating missiles, you want a Catapult or possibly a Jaeger A (although even that's iffy).

Part of the point of using an Orion rather than something else is that you have the variety of hardpoints and thus the variety of weapons that a specialist 'mech like the Jaeger DD, Catapult A1, or Thunderbolt 5SS simply can't load up.

Every single 'mech in the game has a niche, determined by its combination of hardpoints, tonnage, engine rating, arm actuator setup, and physical construction- not all of these niches needed filling (Huginn, Golden Boy, Locust, QKD IV-4, Griffin....) but all of them are niches that exist.

The Orion, in fact, has the unusual state where each variant is capable of filling different niches from the others thanks to the middle-of-the-road hardpoint basis- a trait shared with the Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Awesome, Cataphract- and a few other 'mechs I'm sure. For the most part these 'mechs are either generally panned (Trebuchet, Awesome) or have only one or two variants that see common play and the others get neglected because they don't function the same as the popular ones (Hunchback, Cataphract, Battlemaster).

If you want to lean on your energy weapons in flexible arm mounts, the ON1-K serves that purpose. Energy weapons are relatively light but hot, so it goes well with a higher-rating engine without needing to use an XL as badly, but still has the one ballistic and two missile hardpoints to keep a variety of backup weapons- this one does well with one big bang-cannon and a quartet of energy weapons for longer-range or longer-duration work- maybe some LRMs for backup.

The ON1-M Orion leans a little more to missiles, and with a Center Torso missile hardpoint makes much better use of a Standard engine than the other Orions do. Mount SRMs in all hardpoints and chain-fire them to reduce missile-loss and you can really pound out the damage. Using a standard engine also lets you chuck a massive AC/20 in the right torso for serious bang time- making it probably the best brawler of the five Orions.

If you want a high missile tube count, the ON1-V is a safe bet, with it's 15-20-15 missile slots. It also has dual right-torso ballistic mounts, so it can chainfire AC/5s, or pull off a surprise over-under LB10-X shotgun if you mount a standard engine. This tends to be one of the most ammo-dependent Orions, but that lets you invest less in heat sinks and engine -rating-, sparing tonnage for high-tube-count missile racks or a pair of autocannon.

If you're looking to chain-fire smaller missile racks, the ON1-VA has the same tube count as the V, but in four hardpoints instead of three. This is amazing for a chain of LRM-5s, as you can learn to time yourself so as to pull a constant chain of missiles into whatever target you feel like. Alternately, it makes a hilarious light-hunter with Streak 2 racks, particularly if you use an XL engine to make it fast and throw an LB 10-X in that right torso just to really tear off those little armsies and legsies. If you don't really care for missiles, though, stay the heck away from this model.

The Protector is kind of hilarious, because it's a K with two extra hardpoints- which lets it mix the Dual Autocannon nonsense of the V with an even larger quantity of weapons. If there's an Orion that needs an XL engine to use its full set of hard points, this is the one- particularly with that high-mounted left shoulder energy. On the other hand, you can accept being slow as tar and just pack in the weapons super-hard, and come out with an Atlas D that's been put in a trash compactor, which is amusing. As an important note- assuming that you're basing your engine rating on the speed you want to go at, the Orion, at 75 tons, is more efficient in tonnage spent on engine and gyroscope than an Atlas going the same speed. By losing 25 tons of 'mech (and going down a weight class) with a 53.5 kph post-speed tweak engine, you're only losing 9 tons of weaponry- and coming out of the bargain a much smaller target to shoot at with an also vastly reduced C-bill cost.

'The Orion' doesn't have a purpose in the sense that 'The Highlander' has a purpose (go ahead and check, while the exact number of tubes and hardpoints varies, all Highlanders are the same except the P and the Heavy Metal- and the P trading energy in for ballistic on the right arm just isn't much of a change, so really the Heavy Metal is the big different one. The others are all Arm-cannon, beam shoulder, missile shoulder, missile arm, in that same order. They're very much good for the same things as each other.)

Orions are not one 'mech with minor mostly-cosmetic variances like Highlanders and Victors, they're not only generalists but they're diverse generalists, with different tendencies each.

-QKD-CR0

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 05 June 2014 - 02:26 AM.


#86 Steve Pryde

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:29 AM

View PostNRP, on 30 December 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

It's a mech to run when you're bored of running meta mechs.

Fixed that for you.

#87 SgtKinCaiD

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:58 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 03 June 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

Oh yeah... The VA and K are excellent LRM platforms. I run the VA as a boat, and the K as LRM centric. Here's how they're turning out.

Orion VA (40lrms) KDR: 3.21
Orion K (30lrms) KDR: 1.10

Apparently having those extra 10 missiles per salvo, Artemis/TAG/BAP matters a lot. The K, was run as a poor man's Marauder too just didn't do as well so I converted it back over to an LRM centric but still heavy energy version and the KDR is back on the rise and fast.

Mind to share your new build on the ON1-K ?

#88 Alianton

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 05:21 PM

please do! I'm kinda thinking on how to farm more money for a DDC, using my ON1-K. right now it's stock except i removed the SRMs, added two heat sinks to the engine and another ton of ac/10 ammo.

#89 wanderer

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:28 AM

I have fun with the V as a boat, myself.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b6ca5becea10d25

The MG's work surprisingly well, since they tend to make scouts nervous and actually eat through exposed locations quite effectively. This thing's built to just keep shooting and shooting and shooting...

#90 IraqiWalker

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 04:17 PM

View PostAlianton, on 07 June 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

please do! I'm kinda thinking on how to farm more money for a DDC, using my ON1-K. right now it's stock except i removed the SRMs, added two heat sinks to the engine and another ton of ac/10 ammo.


I would honestly go for the AC 20. It's made such a huge difference for me. I don't hit high damage numbers, but I do get higher kills and assists.

ON1-K This is a build I'd suggest. It's been working wonders for me, and since I'm using SRM4s instead of 6s I don't need Artemis at all, an Alpha from this beast can REALLY ruin someone's day, especially with the new SRM fix coming. As long as you get within 400 meters of people, you will hurt them BAD.

#91 Bromineberry

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:11 AM

While I do like the Orion, there is one thing I can't stand about him: Why is the Orions arm movement so gimped? The have these nice, "ball" sockets which look like they would allow a lot of movement. And still, it's just 20° to the side. especially the K, V and VA are gimped by thos, as they heavily rely on their arm mounted weapons. I think it would be a nice buff to upgrade the arm yaw to something between 30 or 40°. It would make the Orions more viable without making them overly strong...maybe we would see some more of them on the battlefield.

#92 IraqiWalker

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 03:58 PM

View PostBromineberry, on 15 June 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

While I do like the Orion, there is one thing I can't stand about him: Why is the Orions arm movement so gimped? The have these nice, "ball" sockets which look like they would allow a lot of movement. And still, it's just 20° to the side. especially the K, V and VA are gimped by thos, as they heavily rely on their arm mounted weapons. I think it would be a nice buff to upgrade the arm yaw to something between 30 or 40°. It would make the Orions more viable without making them overly strong...maybe we would see some more of them on the battlefield.

I second this. Although, to be honest, the Orion was never the nimble one. However, a bit more range of motion would be great.

#93 Reza Malin

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 11:17 AM

I was in the same mindset as you OP. I found its role though when i equipped 3 x ML, 1 x AC20 and 2 x SRM6 (artemis) with a 71kph speed.

BRAWLER. Even before the SRM buckton fix. Try it!

#94 IraqiWalker

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

View PostFade Akira, on 22 June 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

I was in the same mindset as you OP. I found its role though when i equipped 3 x ML, 1 x AC20 and 2 x SRM6 (artemis) with a 71kph speed.

BRAWLER. Even before the SRM buckton fix. Try it!

I can vouch for that. It's a monster

#95 Reza Malin

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 03:37 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:


I would honestly go for the AC 20. It's made such a huge difference for me. I don't hit high damage numbers, but I do get higher kills and assists.

ON1-K This is a build I'd suggest. It's been working wonders for me, and since I'm using SRM4s instead of 6s I don't need Artemis at all, an Alpha from this beast can REALLY ruin someone's day, especially with the new SRM fix coming. As long as you get within 400 meters of people, you will hurt them BAD.


Ha we are singing from the same song sheet! I don't always manage to get close enough in mine to do the damage, but if i do, someone is going to know about it....

#96 IraqiWalker

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 03:45 AM

View PostFade Akira, on 23 June 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:


Ha we are singing from the same song sheet! I don't always manage to get close enough in mine to do the damage, but if i do, someone is going to know about it....

That's pretty much how it usually works out.

Once I get within 300 meters, people are going to be in PAIN. It's been extremely effective against clan mechs, as it allows me to pop that 20 points of damage right into their CTs. I pretty much hit nothing but CTs, unless something is exposed.

The T-Wolf has been the main prey to hunt, as it is a powerful mech. However, once I find one, and get close enough. It's dead. There is no way for them to shield their CTs, and I can keep putting my shots right into it. Even when they try twisting.

#97 Desertshark

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:46 AM

Hi!

I have a question: Which Orion Variant supports best loadout with a Gauss rifle or 2x LBX10 ?

I dont know why they doesnt show the Hardpoints and the Loadout in the shop, thats really annoying.

Thanks

#98 101011

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

View PostDesertshark, on 19 July 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hi!

I have a question: Which Orion Variant supports best loadout with a Gauss rifle or 2x LBX10 ?

I dont know why they doesnt show the Hardpoints and the Loadout in the shop, thats really annoying.

Thanks

There is not build which can mount dual LBX-10's. There is no real good variant for the Gauss Rifle, either, as the mount is so low you will send the majority of your shots into the dirt. Really, I would suggest going for the AC/20 and brawling.

Edited by 101011, 19 July 2014 - 11:50 AM.


#99 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

View Post101011, on 19 July 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

There is not build which can mount dual LBX-10's.


Untrue. Both the Protector and the V, as I noted in http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3435320 have two ballistic hardpoints on the right torso. With a standard engine, you can thus mount two LB10-X autocannon there (as each occupies six critical hit slots, totaling twelve- the exact number of CHS in a side torso).

#100 Desertshark

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

Even that there is no good Variant which variant can take a gaus rifle and support with Srms or Medium pulse? I thought of buying the M or K.

I just want to have some fun with it dealing 200 dmg during match it dont have to be a Meta build.

Oh cool! Then it will be the V!

Thank you!





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