78 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

Master Maniac, on 30 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

To be honest, I kind of forgot about PPCs. "Gave up on them" is actually more accurate. At least at the moment.

And I didn't touch Endo because THAT'S NOT A CLAN WEAPON.

And, no, my proposals were NOT similar to PGI's. First and foremost, I never suggested arbitrarily reducing the damage of Clan LRMs at close range for no reason whatsoever.



Because oh gosh oh my is that thread a black gaping hole of no possible return. It's also mostly a "feedback" thread for a response to their proposals - not really meant to be a place to make suggestions of your own.

At least my interpretation, anyway.

Feedback threads go into Piranha's circular filing system.

[FupDup]

Rhent, on 31 December 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Feedback threads go into Piranha's circular filing system.

?

[Master Maniac]

FupDup, on 31 December 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

?

I laughed out loud.

Stelar 7, on 31 December 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Seriously, are you reading anything I write?

Not anymore. :-D

[dario03]

I don't know it sounds like the CLRM would basically be really really good at short-mid. They wouldn't be very good at long range unless the speed is increased but then they would be even better up close. However they could be used long range for completely trapping slower mechs behind cover because you wouldn't want to risk moving up since they could do so much damage to anyone that isn't right next to cover.
CLRM20 only weighs 5 tons so hardpoints permitting you could fairly easily put 6+ of them on a mech and have ammo to go with them. And at current IS damage that is a 132 alpha or more. Even with the shotgun affect that is a lot of damage for 30 tons plus ammo. And how much of a spread would it be at say 400m? Even at current missle speed 400m is close enough to not give most heavies and assaults time to get behind cover unless they are right on it.

Edited by dario03, 31 December 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[SiliconAngel]

I can see your point. but how many mechs have 6 missile points? the spread would have to be wide at close range, and also arch. so they would be hard to use. the op didn't describe what weight they would be. so I would think they would only be a bit less heavy, not the traditional 5 tons. that seems too small. maybe 7 or 8 tons instead of the is lrm20 at 10 tons.

Edited by SiliconAngel, 31 December 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Stelar 7]

SiliconAngel, on 31 December 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

I can see your point. but how many mechs have 6 missile points? the spread would have to be wide at close range, and also arch. so they would be hard to use. the op didn't describe what weight they would be. so I would think they would only be a bit less heavy, not the traditional 5 tons. that seems too small. maybe 7 or 8 tons instead of the is lrm20 at 10 tons.

If you look back on page 1 the traditional book values are exactly what he is arguing for. As to slots, Omni-Mech. Have whatever slots you want. Look at the images of a Vulture or Madcat and tell me how many missile slots they might have.

For reference book Omni's often had loadouts of multiple LRM 15-20 launchers along with multiple LPL/PPC and Medium Lasers. Your typical Omni mech had 1.5 to 2x the firepower of a IS equivalent, and was faster and better armored to boot.

[Gladewolf]

Trying to balance the weapons like this ignores the variation in size of the weapons bays on clan mechs. Remember that you are trying to balance mechs that go from 50.5 tons of pod space all the way down to about 12 tons....and mech size doesn't always mean more space. Some clan mechs will suffer horribly because they weren't designed to carry a lot of weapons...This will create several "Awesomes" in an attempt to make the mechs like the Daishi not an evil death machine.

[dario03]

SiliconAngel, on 31 December 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

I can see your point. but how many mechs have 6 missile points? the spread would have to be wide at close range, and also arch. so they would be hard to use. the op didn't describe what weight they would be. so I would think they would only be a bit less heavy, not the traditional 5 tons. that seems too small. maybe 7 or 8 tons instead of the is lrm20 at 10 tons.

In a later post comparing his suggestions to PGI's he mentions that he is against arbitrarily raising the weight of clan weapons. So I'm guessing he means to leave them at 5 tons. I don't know how many will have 6 missle points but Clan Mechs are going to be sort of omni so I wouldn't be surprised if you could get some to have 6 maybe even up to 8. With spread and instant lose of lock I could see those missiles sometimes having trouble against lights that are right in your face or far off. My issue is that it seems like they would tear through everything else at ~sub 400m. Even if the spread was hitting 3 or 4 locations that would be like taking 3 AC40 shots with a couple of medium lasers thrown in. And if you do land a shot on a light at point blank and thus hit every section you would be ripping 60-100% of their armor off.

Edited by dario03, 31 December 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Master Maniac]

dario03, on 31 December 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I don't know it sounds like the CLRM would basically be really really good at short-mid. They wouldn't be very good at long range unless the speed is increased but then they would be even better up close. However they could be used long range for completely trapping slower mechs behind cover because you wouldn't want to risk moving up since they could do so much damage to anyone that isn't right next to cover. CLRM20 only weighs 5 tons so hardpoints permitting you could fairly easily put 6+ of them on a mech and have ammo to go with them. And at current IS damage that is a 132 alpha or more. Even with the shotgun affect that is a lot of damage for 30 tons plus ammo. And how much of a spread would it be at say 400m? Even at current missle speed 400m is close enough to not give most heavies and assaults time to get behind cover unless they are right on it.

Hardpoints permitting is right. I can't think of any 'Mech save a dedicated missile boat being able to fit that many of them. Not only that, CLRMs should have elevated heat values due to their compact size, meaning that trying to fire more than, say, 2 20-slot racks would cause serious heat buildup - enough to threaten a heatsink-heavy 'Mech with shutdown. Heat is a key limiting factor in most of my ideas for Clan weapons tech.

Also, I imagine a 'Mech boating nothing other than CLRMs and heatsinks would be making a grave tactical error. The ability to track fast moving 'Mechs would require pinpoint mouse precision. Missiles should have a slight vertical inclination to launch - less so than standard LRMs, but noticeable enough to cause the missiles to require tracking even at close range in order to ensure a hit. CLRMs would be very, very difficult to use against lights especially, given their high speed and low visual profile, and the requirement to keep your sights glued to your target for accuracy makes them difficult to use against team working well together. Tunnel vision is a serious drawback if a player isn't careful enough.

It is theoretically (and should be) possible to group lots of these launchers together, although logically speaking the CLRMs would only be feasible in this configuration with the use of chainfire to mitigate the increased heat. Overall, their travel time, damage spread, and demand for precision make them less effective overall than direct-fire weapons such as lasers and autocannons in close to mid range engagements. I believe it is underestimated just how difficult I would expect keeping a lock with these missiles should be. The *instant* the reticule shifts off target, the lock is broken, and whatever salvos that have been launched immediately become unguided, and therefore extremely unlikely to strike their target.

This means that if the opponent strikes the shooter with a weapon that causes even a little bit of screen shake, there is a strong chance the shooter's attempt to lock on will be broken, and the majority of their missiles will miss entirely. While faster than standard LRMs, CLRMS do require a moment to lock on. Lock is not instantaneous, and time spent reacquiring tone is time for the enemy to get his shots in, further disrupting the shooter's aim. With no backup weapons, a CLRM boat in this position is probably dead in the water.

Even without screen shake as a factor, how many players can say that they are able to maintain 100% perfect accuracy with laser weapons, even within close range, even in situations in which they have the advantage? Very few can do so with honesty. Clan LRMs would require a very, very high level of accuracy in order to even score a hit, let alone to be effective and deal reliable damage.

For the most part, I expect these weapons to round out a player's loadout, rather than comprise them entirely. I would be quite surprised if someone could use these heavy, extremely-hot, and very precise weapons exclusively. Anything more than a CLRM 40 is going to be overheat city... not to mention practically impossible given hardpoint configurations.

[Master Maniac]

Stelar 7, on 31 December 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

You may not care about the PPC, and you clearly value your opinion above others, however it's heavy use in competitive play argues strongly that the weapon is not sub par, and is in fact quite good. While you are welcome to your opinion, not all opinions are equal. If you refuse to see the weapon in heavy competitive use as a good weapon I don't know how productive a conversation on balance can be with you.

You are right lasers don't arc through the air, they hit right where you point them, and you have to hold that specific point for a fair bit of time. Your missiles will not need to be that accurate, anywhere on the mech will get a big hit to many locations. Why a big hit? Because there will be room for lots and lots of launchers. That is the consequence of using the original tonnage values. They are half that of their inner sphere counterparts. That means, lots of damage, grouped tightly, per your words, at medium range. The cost, some exposure. That is less of an issue on follow up strikes thanks to the rocking the target will endure.

I never claimed that your system makes alpha strike more accurate, seriously are you reading anything I write? What they don't do is make an alpha strike any less accurate. They do make short duration non-alphas less accurate. That means a smart player should alpha. Hence more alpha strike, with more weapons because of the tonnage and crit savings.

Finally since you are so hung up on Traditional Marriage, how about the argument that we shouldn't change because things weren't changed before? That is what that refers to. Your argument is to not change tonnage because we would be changing tonnage. You need a stronger case than that.

Here we go. As much as I'm sure it would gratify you to create a stunningly stupid allegory for Conservative/Liberal hogwash out of my stated desire to "leave things as they were," I'm afraid I'm going to have to stop you RIGHT HERE.

Why?

Because I'm not leaving weight and crit values the same for "lore" reasons, I'm leaving them the way they are because that fits with my personal idea for the flavor Clan Tech weapons should have.

In my imagining, Clan weapons are lightweight, streamlined, and designed to be flexible. This gels with the idea of Clan Omnitech. Inner Sphere weapons 'boat' well because of their (sort of) low heat and standard utility. Clan weapons are, as I would like to see them implemented, much more flexible, less suited to boating, and riskier on their own.

I WANT them to be light weight and require less hardpoints BY DESIGN. That is the point. Have a 'Mech with one energy hardpoint, but not enough tonnage to stick a large laser on it? Get a Clan ER Large Laser, and have a specialized weapon which may or may not be useful depending on the situation. Want to fill out your 'Mech with a missile weapon? Get a Clan LRM 10, and add a chance of stream damage to your laser strikes.

Of course, they should be functional in their traditional roles, too. A very skilled player should be able to use Clan LRMs at long range, if their hand is steady enough. Clan ER lasers should be effective in brawls, but will require more precision due to heat. It would in fact be much more efficient to mix and match Clan tech with IS tech, where possible. Clan ER Medium Lasers with standard Large Lasers, for example.

Now, here we go with the alpha strike "issue."

We have a 'Mech with a Clan AC20 and six standard medium lasers. Our 'Mech gets point blank with some poor Highlander who's overheated with his competitive PPCs, and lets loose all weapons at once!

What happens?

The weapons trigger spontaneously. The AC20 strikes dead-on center torso, and so do the six lasers...for a fraction of a second, because recoil has flung the player's reticule off to the right, and hard, due to the strong recoil of the Clan autocannon. The lasers slash for half their duration across the CT and LT of the enemy Highlander, who is currently sitting perfectly still. The reticule clears the enemy 'Mech entirely, and the lasers shoot empty space for another part of their duration until we manage to stick the crosshair back onto the Highlander. We manage to line up our shots...for about 0.14 extra seconds of damage.

And that is point blank.

How do we do this right? We fire the lasers, burn through them, and THEN we fire the autocannon. And the effect we've achieved is actually LIMITING alpha strikes, because IS ACs would not require this approach.


Addressing Omni hardpoints:

I have no idea. The ball is in PGI's court as far as that goes. Well, I mean, the ball is *always* in their court, but they could really do anything with the system.

My idea would favor only certain slots on the 'Mech being Omni, much like in Mechwarrior 4. I really don't see every single slot on a 'Mech being fully interchangeable. I guess 14 MG Vultures were pretty awesome in Mechwarrior 2... But I seriously, seriously doubt they will allow every slot to be fully Omni.

Edited by Master Maniac, 31 December 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[Gladewolf]

Master Maniac, on 30 December 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

No speeches. No dramatics. No lengthy diatribes. I'm here to do Clan Tech for you.

You're welcome.

So with your ideas in hand, what does an Ultra-AC10 look like? I ask because this weapon will be usable on almost all clan mechs PGI showcased.

[Stelar 7]

For someone who objects to "trolling" and the introduction of politics you do keep bringing it up.

In your example, sure the lasers miss. Now lets take those six medium lasers and swap them for a clan LRM 20, that Highlander is going to take a beating.

Alternately, make that one AC 20 five CAC10, What is the highlander going to do? Die. Because all that recoil will not matter, all 5 shots are off. It will mess with the UAC, they would be effectively useless, since they can't line up the 2nd shot. That is what I meant by a high alphas. You keep talking about the weapons in isolation. You would need to force that, and that is not what omni is all about. With the weight savings from all the compound sources we could easily see 5+ AC on a single mech. Heck the book variant of the Diashi has 8 or 10 AC in it's arms as I recall.

Then you want to add clan weapons to IS mechs? How many missile hardpoints can a stalker or catapult manage? Can you imagine the Jager with 2 CLRM 15 and a couple of large ballistics to go with them? A Catapult with four LL and 4 LRM 15?

From the above I think that you are planning what would be neat, without considering what else comes in the package.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Gladewolf, on 31 December 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

So with your ideas in hand, what does an Ultra-AC10 look like? I ask because this weapon will be usable on almost all clan mechs PGI showcased.

Honestly I'm still pretty worried about the UAC/20. If they keep that double-tap from the UAC/5... Although Maniac's recoil would mitigate that threat somewhat.

[Master Maniac]

Gladewolf, on 31 December 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

So with your ideas in hand, what does an Ultra-AC10 look like? I ask because this weapon will be usable on almost all clan mechs PGI showcased.

It's tricky, because, from a fps-simulation standpoint, two simultaneous AC/10 shots are analogous to a single AC/20 shot, so there is an issue of redundancy. From a very basic approach, without having dwelled on it too much, I would suggest that the weapon fires two almost simultaneous shots, and reloads slightly faster than an AC/20 but slower than an AC/10. Heat should be marginally worse than firing an AC/20, and moderate recoil should be a factor for the IS version (unique to IS ACs), and stiff recoil a factor for the slightly lighter Clan variant. The Clan version should also take a little more time between shots than the IS one, and the weapon should be more fragile from a Hit Point perspective.

[Master Maniac]

Stelar 7, on 31 December 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

For someone who objects to "trolling" and the introduction of politics you do keep bringing it up.

In your example, sure the lasers miss. Now lets take those six medium lasers and swap them for a clan LRM 20, that Highlander is going to take a beating.

Alternately, make that one AC 20 five CAC10, What is the highlander going to do? Die. Because all that recoil will not matter, all 5 shots are off. It will mess with the UAC, they would be effectively useless, since they can't line up the 2nd shot. That is what I meant by a high alphas. You keep talking about the weapons in isolation. You would need to force that, and that is not what omni is all about. With the weight savings from all the compound sources we could easily see 5+ AC on a single mech. Heck the book variant of the Diashi has 8 or 10 AC in it's arms as I recall.

Then you want to add clan weapons to IS mechs? How many missile hardpoints can a stalker or catapult manage? Can you imagine the Jager with 2 CLRM 15 and a couple of large ballistics to go with them? A Catapult with four LL and 4 LRM 15?

From the above I think that you are planning what would be neat, without considering what else comes in the package.

You're floundering, here.

Four Clan AC/10s? You've just shut down and possibly killed *yourself.* Again, I maintain that Clan weapons should be way hotter than IS weapons in general. Compactness contributes to heat buildup. Four AC/10s fired in tandem should be a serious risk for damage to a 'Mech's internals due to ammunition detonation. Fair tradeoff, and an overheated 'Mech getting slammed at point-blank is going to die anyway in the *current* game, as they should. I don't see the issue, here.

The Highlander is going to take a beating from a point-blank Clan LRM20? Yes it will. And it should. Problem?

UAC's will be useless? Not if you fire them in small numbers, they won't. Weapons that discharge two rounds very rapidly mitigate the climb effect of recoil. See the AN-94 rifle in the real world. Its high cyclic rate allows the second round in a two-point burst to leave the barrel before it is affected by recoil. Ultras would work the same way...unless you multiplied their numbers. Fire them together in a group, and you amplify the recoil. Alpha'd Ultras would see all their shots hit as if there were no recoil, but the recoil suffered after the fact would be considerably worse, and adds another layer of challenge to contend with.


AND, as an aside: earlier, I said that Clan weight and crits should never be altered as "a cheap way to 'balance' them out." I didn't say their values were Holy of Holies and untouchable. I'm stating that in my idea for how Clan weapons should work, lightness, compactness, added heat, and slower reloads should be part of their identity.

More specifically, increasing the tonnage of the Clan LRM as released in the official statement was, in my opinion, cheap and stupid. The weapon is, at the end of the day, not much different from the standard LRM, with arbitrary penalties to the original design to "balance it out."

Edited by Master Maniac, 31 December 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Gladewolf]

Master Maniac, on 31 December 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

It's tricky, because, from a fps-simulation standpoint, two simultaneous AC/10 shots are analogous to a single AC/20 shot, so there is an issue of redundancy. From a very basic approach, without having dwelled on it too much, I would suggest that the weapon fires two almost simultaneous shots, and reloads slightly faster than an AC/20 but slower than an AC/10. Heat should be marginally worse than firing an AC/20, and moderate recoil should be a factor for the IS version (unique to IS ACs), and stiff recoil a factor for the slightly lighter Clan variant. The Clan version should also take a little more time between shots than the IS one, and the weapon should be more fragile from a Hit Point perspective.

That will give you a 60 point alpha on the Daishi(it could realistically sustain 3 unless the heat system is greatly altered) at a base of around 600 meters and an improved AC-20 to the Kit Fox at 30 tons...Do you envision PGI also adding the Inner Sphere variants of these weapons? That might make this task a bit easier if PGI really wants to attempt "Balance" I don't like the idea personally, because I feel it ignores community warfare(well who knows what that means anymore) and potential customer satisfaction issues later, but you are also going to have to consider more than just the weapons systems to make your idea work.

[Stelar 7]

Master Maniac, on 31 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

You're floundering, here.

Four Clan AC/10s? You've just shut down and possibly killed *yourself.* Again, I maintain that Clan weapons should be way hotter than IS weapons in general. Compactness contributes to heat buildup. Four AC/10s fired in tandem should be a serious risk for damage to a 'Mech's internals due to ammunition detonation. Fair tradeoff, and an overheated 'Mech getting slammed at point-blank is going to die anyway in the *current* game, as they should. I don't see the issue, here.

Perhaps you could provide some actual numbers instead of just making up reprucussions on the spot to tell me I am floundering. I certainly can't read your mind so perhaps I'm behind the argument you are having with your imaginary me in your head.

What weight, specifically, for Clan AC10 (My bad, Clans had no AC 10, they use the LB10X which fired shot or slug ammo, and the Ultra AC 10)

LB10X 10 tons, 5 crits and 2 heat.
Ultra AC 10 10 tons, 4 crits and 3 heat per shot

So your heat value would be what 10? 20? 30?

You are also adding ammo explosions to your heat scale? How many other base mechanics have you changed in your mind that you didn't write out?

Master Maniac, on 31 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

The Highlander is going to take a beating from a point-blank Clan LRM20? Yes it will. And it should. Problem?

yes your example was a strawman. You tried to tell me that alphas would not be a thing, and used a really bad firing decision with your AC20 and a bunch of medium lasers.

Still since the recoil can be corrected in less time than it takes for a laser to burn out, I think that heavy balisic builds will be just fine.

Master Maniac, on 31 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

UAC's will be useless? Not if you fire them in small numbers, they won't. Weapons that discharge two rounds very rapidly mitigate the climb effect of recoil. See the AN-94 rifle in the real world. Its high cyclic rate allows the second round in a two-point burst to leave the barrel before it is affected by recoil. Ultras would work the same way...unless you multiplied their numbers. Fire them together in a group, and you amplify the recoil. Alpha'd Ultras would see all their shots hit as if there were no recoil, but the recoil suffered after the fact would be considerably worse, and adds another layer of challenge to contend with.

OMG the holy grail of internet foolishness. You just compared a video game to real life. So your Ultra AC don't have a delay between shots? Your UAC20 is 40 pinpoint to 1 box with no delay? You do know there are clan mechs that weigh 50 tons and have two of those things right?

You can find all the values I'm quoting at sarna.net

http://www.sarna.net...istic_Weapons_2

/edit double text.

Edited by Stelar 7, 31 December 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Can't we all just get along?

YOU'RE TEARING ME APART :'C

[Master Maniac]

"You just compared a video game to real life."

*shakes head sadly*

Okay, I'm marking you down as an irredeemable troll and moving right along.

"UAC 20 yadda yadda yadda"

Yeah, I said I didn't put much consideration to it. I literally came up with a rough idea in like 10 seconds, you miserable, miserable little troll of a man. I would *happily* go into depth about it. And apparently I will, because it torments you on a personal level for me to do so.

"Making up repercussions on the spot."

You are pathetic.

"Still since the recoil can be corrected in less time than it takes for a laser to burn out, I think that heavy balisic builds will be just fine."

Blind assumption, given the fact that you clearly have no idea how this recoil effect would function, nor how strong it will be, or how difficult it will be to adjust for.

"YOU'RE JUST ADDING IN AMMO EXPLOSIONS?!"

Really? I mean...really? That's like the cherry on top of your #*%@ sundae.

"Where's your numbers?!"

I'm brainstorming functionality - how weapons could perform in a way that differentiates them from standard Inner Sphere weapons. Rebranded IS weapons that work exactly the same but with slightly different numbers are boring. I'm doing a general, sweeping analysis of how I *think* Clan weapons could work in the game. But you already know this. You're just taking the opportunity to gratify yourself by acting like a **** in an online forum, because of some personal deficiency. Which is really too bad.

Can I do numbers? You bet your arse I could. Could I nail the mechanics? Sure, I definitely could. This is an off day. A day I look forward to enjoying some MWO on. I have to go to sleep early and go to work at 7 in the morning. You want stats and number crunching, then you're going to have to wait for a weekend. I'm not getting paid for this, troglodyte.

I feel bad for this game's community. I'd heard that it was bad, but I had no idea that it was *this* bad. I'm sick of your bilious attitude. Don't expect any further direct replies, and if you persist with the insults, I will happily report you.

Now, addressing the Ultras:

Ultra Autocannons in Battletech fire twice in one turn, with twice the heat, and twice the possibility for damage. This is all well and good, but their representation in the Mechwarrior games changes from title to title.

Ultra ACs are more or less redundant in their basic format considering the nature of the game, unless some core changes are made to how they work and what they do in order to differentiate them from their standard single-shot counterparts.

The primary motivation to make a ballistic weapon fire in short, rapid bursts is to increase the rate of fire - which goes hand in hand with damage done to a target - whilst minimizing the effects of harmonic destabilization.

In MWO, Ultra Autocannons could benefit from the advantage of firing more rapidly than single-shot AC's. An Ultra AC/10 could fire in a sharp two-point burst, discharging two 10-damage rounds within a half-second of one another. The first shot causes the targeting reticule to begin a climb, which will affect the placement of the second round fired. Of course, this shift in aim has more dramatic consequences the farther away the intended target is from the shooter. The second round transfers the full force of the recoil to the shooter, causing the reticule to jump away from the target with random, although capped, amounts of vertical and lateral disruption. The higher the caliber, the greater the recoil. This has the effect of making follow-up shots with other weapons more difficult to aim, given the need for manual aim correction forced by the recoil.

Ultra ACs would be unique among IS AC's in having a recoil mechanic at all, while Clan variants would have much stronger recoil effects, making them much less useful at range, as the second shot will be more inaccurate. Up close, however, Ultra ACs can be very powerful, doing twice the damage of a single-shot variety with a reasonable amount of precision - and a good chance of striking the same component of a target 'Mech.

This power comes with a price, however. The more Ultras are fired at once, the sharper the effect of recoil becomes, and the harder it is to compensate for. Of course, the recoil will affect the accuracy of a pilot's other weapons. It is therefore advisable to trigger multiple Ultras on chainfire in order to keep the targeting reticule as steady as possible across long ranges. At closer ranges, where reticule deviation becomes less important, the increased rate of fire of the Ultra AC can be quite beneficial, and the increased heat is the greater concern.

Ultra ACs can emulate the power of the next highest caliber, but generate more heat than would the single-shot equivalent. An Ultra 10 can deal 20 points of damage like an AC/20, but causes a bit more heat buildup than would an AC/20 on its own. An AC/20 generates 6 points of heat with a single shot, while an Ultra 10 generates 7.2 points.

Ultra ACs also require more time to reload. A standard AC/10 has a 2.5 second reload time. An Ultra AC/10 requires 3.5 seconds to reload, while the lighter, more compact Clan version requires 4 seconds.

The net gain of choosing an Ultra AC over its single shot counterpart is the increased probability that two shots will hit a target in the same area of the body, leaving less room for the enemy to evade, and narrowing the margin of error between two slower shots. This effect is much more practical as distance between the shooter and the target decreases. At longer ranges, a single-shot autocannon is often more useful.

Then again, the advantage of equipping an Ultra AC of a lower caliber over a standard AC of a higher caliber is reduced weight and a greater abundance of the smaller caliber ammunition per ton.

Edited by Master Maniac, 31 December 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Stelar 7]

Master Maniac, on 31 December 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

<Nothing at all of substance>

So lots of insults, no addressing of any of my points. Dude, just crawl back under your rock.