53 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

You are really good at semantics. I need to give you that! If your agenda wasn't so blatantly obvious you would make a pretty good politican.

I'm not game for such petty things. If you want to twist words and truths, look for another victim. I'll not waste any more time with you.

There is just two little things I want to adress before I leave you alone in your world of selfrightousness:

Aim64C, on 01 January 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

You see, in America, when someone comes to ask for investments in his/her business model for various engineering marvels that will 'revolutionize the industry' or 'put oil companies out of business' - it's perfectly fair to show up and analyze what's being offered.

When the "self-sustaining energy producing circuit" is shown to have a battery or AC hook-up - it's generally considered polite to inform people that their money is, most probably, not going toward the development of a zero point energy module (or whatever).

Necessarily, that is going to 'hurt' the 'business' of these 'people' who do this. And many will actually try to threaten legal action along the lines of slander and defamation.

You see, even in America that would be called slander, if you have no real evidence and base your accusations on hearsay. Just like it is in this case. You need to have realproof if you make such accusations.

Aim64C, on 01 January 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Edit: End of post got cut off for some reason - perhaps an unintentional 'undo.'

Wouldn't be worth the effort!

[Mystere]

Aim64C, on 01 January 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Where have I attacked their families?

He was not referring to you. He was referring to people who physically threatened the devs and their families (not to mention other players) after the 3PV brouhaha.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Egomane, on 01 January 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

Wouldn't be worth the effort!

At this point Ego, without actually having talked to the guy myself, I have put him on ignore.

Don't feed the troll.

[Egomane]

Shar Wolf, on 01 January 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

At this point Ego, without actually having talked to the guy myself, I have put him on ignore.

A luxury I can't allow myself.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Egomane, on 01 January 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

A luxury I can't allow myself.

Yet another reason I am glad I am not a Mod.... (that with the fact I would have a hard time keeping it impersonal )
You have my sincere sympathies.

[Aim64C]

Egomane, on 01 January 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

You are really good at semantics. I need to give you that! If your agenda wasn't so blatantly obvious you would make a pretty good politican.

No, I'd make a horrible politician. I tell people exactly the way it is.

Interestingly enough - that idea is becoming increasingly popular. After decades of political correctness and 'we can't have anyone be offended' laws that try to turn everyone and everything into a criminal - the idea that someone actually says what is on their mind and leaves the other to deal with it is becoming popular again.

That is all.

Quote

I'm not game for such petty things. If you want to twist words and truths, look for another victim. I'll not waste any more time with you.

There is just two little things I want to adress before I leave you alone in your world of selfrightousness:

You're discussing things further in a topic you have jettisoned. I would say you are for quite petty things.

You're just as vain as me - arguing with someone to have the last word. I do not claim any righteousness. I have principles that I stick to and vices I enjoy. One of them happens to be having the last word in an argument. I really - should - have taken the 'high road' long ago.

That's what separates you and me, Ego. I am fully aware of what I am doing and why I am doing it. I accept that I am choosing my actions - be they good actions, bad actions, or just actions. Beyond that - I know why I am choosing them.

You're still a man trying to control the trivial things. All you really need to learn to control is yourself. Even when I appear to not have control - it is because I have chosen, intentionally, to not implement control.

But, you're 50 years old, or whatever, and have the world by the ***. I'm not going to tell you anything.

Quote

You see, even in America that would be called slander, if you have no real evidence and base your accusations on hearsay. Just like it is in this case. You need to have realproof if you make such accusations.

That is incorrect. The burden of proof falls on the prosecution. For slander and libel charges to actually be heard in court - one must be able to present a case that measurable damage has been done.

Your case would, most likely, be thrown out and never heard. A judge would see it as a waste of their time.

Quote

Wouldn't be worth the effort!

Apparently you quoted the wrong thing.

Regardless - one must question why you would even bring it up if it weren't worth the effort.

It just reveals you as one ********** fighting another ********** for the honor of being the most douchetastic.

[Nightfire]

Egomane, on 01 January 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

You are really good at semantics. I need to give you that! If your agenda wasn't so blatantly obvious you would make a pretty good politican.

I'm not game for such petty things. If you want to twist words and truths, look for another victim. I'll not waste any more time with you.

Just something from someone who is a lot older, on the hook for a lot more and probably in a position to better evaluate Aim64C's claims (there is a reason I know quite a bit about network code and optimisation) ... his claims make a lot of sense to myself and a lot of people.
You may not see it here in the forums but myself and a lot of people I know have ceased to financially back MWO and barely play anymore. The poor development choices up to now really grated on us and those decisions themselves had us on the brink. We would have likely taken this action anyway as we were getting bored with a game that wasn't catering to us anymore, so we were set to move on.

The announcement that they had actually suspended active development until they renegotiated the license? That smacks of betrayal and extremely poor communications. Personally it feels like fraud since I was paying to back the development, not to purchase virtual mechs. So that announcement only really pushed us over an edge that we were already looking over.

What you should really be worried about it that Aim64C makes a lot of sense with his claims to a large audience and that for many of us, he's just voicing the opinions many of us have already come to. Opinions on which we decided to move on as a result of. You can't convince us back with platitudes or excuses and I'm only still here to watch the on coming train wreck.

At this point I'm really just hoping the Mechwarrior license from M$ wasn't exclusive.

[Ensaine]

Time for some schooling .....

Egomane, on 01 January 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

No, it's not a satisfying answer, but it is the truth.


Someone has a different point of view from yours, so he is delusional? Is that really what you just said?

I know about the flaws of MWO and PGI, but I still don't see how that justifies insults, threats and defamation. I enjoy the game, the way it is. If I no longer enjoy it, I'll leave. If it is because of a developer decision I'll have to accept that, but I'll not campaign,the way some users do, against PGI to try to hurt their business.

It's called passion. People express their passions in many different ways. Part of human nature.. no?

I didn't get my promised lollypop, so I knock the other guy down and kick him while he's there. That is the mentality behind such actions and I can not stand for them. No decent being should defend something like that.

Regardless of how we may feel about the bully chasing the lollypop, the bully still exists. Part of human nature no? The original owner was passionate about the lollypop. The bully, more so. The bully is obviously wrong, but ecpexting the bully to never show up, is = head in sand.


I don't! I used that as an example of how open communication has been valued by the angry mob in the past. If you look closely, I did not, for a single word, go into the details of 3PV and only adressed how Russ and his family has been attacked over it.

So, open communication, no matter how off center it may be, is ok? We should welcome it with open arms? Hey, I just pushed your sister down a flight of stairs. She cracked her head open, and probably won't see tomorrow. But hey, I openly communicated this, so leave me alone.

Russ should have taught his kid to play the game. Instead, he jams 3pV on us? For his kid? REALLY?

How about you actually answer what I wrote?


You used the past of some people and used it in a way to try to discredit them. The past has nothing to do with current development of MWO, except that it's the same people involved.

You are trying to hurt them and their business. Ignoring the fact, that PGIs past is just like the one of every other gaming company in this world. And you make accusations of motive like these on top of that:
[/indent]

You do not critizise... you accuse! Without evidence, only your own personal vison of how things must have played out. Making the intent of your thread pretty much clear.


What?
Oh... yes! I hate false accusations and insults and such. I pretty much made that clear many, many times now. If you feel that this hate is hitting you, that might tell you something about yourself and the posts you make.


In your opinion!
Opinion does not equal fact!
It's a simple truth, but still hard to grasp for so many in this world.


Finally admitting that you actually do want to harm the business of PGI. We are getting somewhere.


If you cause it, or are a part of it, then yes, it is your problem.
Do you know there are laws against cyberbullying in nearly every nation today?
Throwing insults at people, starting campaigns to hurt their business and such, do actually fall under these laws. If you believe it is harmless and only a internet thing, you are decieving yourself. Just because these guys run a business, doesn't make them (or their families) a valid target for personal attacks.

This isn't cyberbullying. This is business. Some people just pick up a bunch of bananas. Some have to squeeze each banana in the bunch. Which person is wrong?

I've yet to see any personal attacks vs. dev's kids. Got proof?

Your attempt to intentionaly discredit them, is walking on thin ice on your part. It's an internet thing or they need to man up are not valid excuses! Your insistence of the right to insult or discredit, just shows how ignorant you are about others and how self centered you are. You do not want to protect others. That is a lie you made up for yourself (yes, I can play that card as well), to justify your own actions before your own conscience.

Again, it's called passion. The ones screaming the loudest, are the ones who care the most. HOW can anyone in the 21st century NOT know that.

Railing against human nature is idiocy in it's most basic form. There are people who protest by raising their hands. And, there are people who protest by breaking a window. Doesn't invalidate the window breaker's opinion, or passions, just his methods need to be rethought.

To be SO shocked and dismayed that some people spout forth venomous diatribes is very short sighted. Railing against them only inflames, and incites them even more.

Point is, stop trying to change them. You won't. Crying about it will accomplish nothing.

I am one of those passionate people. I am of the opinion that the only way we'll get any fair revision of the MW franchise, is if PGI handed it over to a competent dev team, as I have ZERO confidence that these guys can deliver.

I'm basing this on what has transpired so far, in MWO only.

One look at Paul's 'http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/127903-heat-scale-the-maths-feedback/' thread should suffice. A more convoluted, confusing, and useless system, I don't think exists in online gaming.

Just don't be so surprised when angry people get angry.

It's Human Nature. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

If the dev team were to get this game going, had not did a 180 on 3PV, had not been deceptive, and timelines more closely followed, we'd have very little of this.

So Ego, perhaps, you're young, I dunno, and really don't care. Just try to understand that this mindset exists, to a lesser/greater extent, in each individual. Some go volcanic, some don't.

Try to understand, that if we had a good, viable AAA title underneath us, there'd be so little angst, you'd not have much to do as a moderator.

Edited by Ensaine, 02 January 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[Rift Hawk]

My favorite statement by Ego yet has to be this:

"I know about the flaws of MWO and PGI, but I still don't see how that justifies insults, threats and defamation. I enjoy the game, the way it is."

How can you enjoy a game as it is, when the flaws consist of many things that put the game into its current state ? This game has easily taken the title of worst mechwarrior game ever. If you enjoy the game as it is, you obviously don't understand the flaws that such a large portion of the player base are complaining about.

The game itself is nothing more than an arcade shooter with bad mechanics. Constant nerfs, horrible "fixes" that create more issues than they solve, absolutely NO progression into making this game better. More and more mechs that are so customizable that they might as well all be the same mech. Oh yeah, the horrible system currently used to customize mechs. Big on there for me. I fail to see how anyone can enjoy a game with this many problems and these don't even scratch the surface.

Not to mention the devs have lied to and deceived this community many times.

Then there is their price gouging, cash grab mentality when it comes to pricing their new clan mechs. Though I don't know whats worse, them for doing it, or the idiots that waste money on it without thinking. Then use the "I support games I like" statement to justify having someone pick their pocket. There is no problem supporting a game you like when the new content provided actually has new content. Not just the illusion of content. Mechs are almost all the same because the level of customization is far to broad. No mechs really stand out because all mechs can do basically everything. Adding more and more of them isn't considered new content. CW would be new content but I doubt at this point if that will ever happen.

I think the OP made a very valid post here and it was very informative. Some things I knew and some things were new to me. Either way, they were all very eye opening. I have not even played this game in months and only ended up at this post because someone linked it to me. This game has been uninstalled because I have no faith in it. I will not be returning unless it ends up in the hands of another developer. Someone I can trust to provide real content and not just an attempt to make as much money as possible before the game goes swirling.

One can only hold onto hope for so long before it becomes apparent there is no hope.

[Heffay]

Imperial X, on 02 January 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

How can you enjoy a game as it is

Because the game is still incredibly fun to play?

You may not agree with that, but I don't think you're in any position to determine what we find fun.

[Mystere]

Heffay, on 02 January 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Because the game is still incredibly fun to play?

You may not agree with that, but I don't think you're in any position to determine what we find fun.

Well, there are those who believe that not playing to the meta is pointless and is therefore not fun at all.

[Rebas Kradd]

Nightfire, on 01 January 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

The poor development choices up to now really grated on us and those decisions themselves had us on the brink. We would have likely taken this action anyway as we were getting bored with a game that wasn't catering to us anymore, so we were set to move on.

The announcement that they had actually suspended active development until they renegotiated the license? That smacks of betrayal and extremely poor communications. Personally it feels like fraud since I was paying to back the development, not to purchase virtual mechs.

This is completely different than Aim64C. You're making fair accusations, acknowledging feelings and impressions, and not expecting us to believe declarative, cartoonish fantasies of con men with big twirling mustaches.

PGI could probably justify every decision it's made from a financial standpoint (including the being quick to fix a website payment system and not so quick to fix SRMs). There's more direct money for them in fixing the website payment system, none in fixing SRMs. It's another one of those things where both sides are right and everyone loses, because our bottom-line world doesn't favor the little guy anymore.

What PGI may find out very quickly, of course, is that F2P is still a new category that is much more directly dependent on the little guy than most business. Our brave new world of crowdsourcing operates on new rules.

I'd honestly welcome having someone reconcile for me the claims of UI2.0 being a glorified web browser, with this: http://mwomercs.com/...history-lesson/. I won't pretend to have the technical knowledge to form too much of an opinion here, but it sounds to a layman a little more complicated than being something that could be rewritten in a couple of days.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 02 January 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Mystere, on 02 January 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

Well, there are those who believe that not playing to the meta is pointless and is therefore not fun at all.

There are also those who believe that playing to the meta is pointless and is therefore not fun at all.

When the two meet, there is a clash bigger than the one between Godzilla and his Mecha-Twin, and far less fun to watch as well.

[RG Notch]

Egomane, on 31 December 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

Nope!
Some people always try to do something negative, even if they do know better.
People hold grudges. Sometimes to their last breath.

How this world might look like, if people learned to let go of their hatred and simply moved on with something else? This is the thing I wonder about.

The past is the past.
Some few people learn from it and improve themself from it.
The others will hold it against you for eternity. Even if they were never involved in the things that happened in the past. Those are the ones who truly repeat past errors.

It doesn't keep me up at night. I already lost hope for the most part of mankind to ever improve itself.

Wait, learn from the past, like not pay money for the latest cash grab. Because the last time PGI had their grubby mitts out for a package, CW was also just 6 months away.