26 replies to this topic

[DeepBurn]

I'm thinking about moving away from my 4-ERPPC build which is my first build on my first owned mech (Stalker-3F). The build has been rather mediocre for me. I'd like to stick with the same mech but mix it up a bit. I tinkered around and came up with this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa3c186471167f5

It seems like it may be a better fit for my play style. However, I'm still a new player and haven't really gotten a good grasp on the sweet spots for engine size, heat sink upgrades, heat efficiency, endo-steel, ferro-fibrous, and artemis. There may be some glaring issues or improvements that some of the community may see that I simply don't understand yet. All constructive suggestions and input would be welcome. Thanks!

Edited by DeepBurn, 31 December 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Spheroid]

Needs a Beagle Active Probe. Remove .5 tons of armor and a ton of ammo. Also I like to keep all medium lasers in the ears so that you aren't having convergence issues during a brawl.

Edited by Spheroid, 31 December 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Flyby215]

I used to run a build like that... It worked pretty well in its time. Personally I think you have too much streak ammo, as I would save streaks for anti-light operations and not general combat. From my own experience, nobody shoots a Stalker in the legs, 65 points is probably overkill. Seeing as there's still room in the arms for heat sinks, I would daresay take off 2 notches of streak ammo, throttle the leg armour back a bit, see if you can slip in a BAP and an extra heat sink or two.

Edited by Flyby215, 31 December 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[DeepBurn]

Spheroid:

Thanks for the input. I added the BAP. In bringing the ERLL in to the LT and RT I would need to drop the AMS and ammo to maintain the DHS count. The new build with your suggested changes is here:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...13943ea28e6c9cd

Should I try to keep the AMS for this build?

[Spheroid]

^ Everything will fit including AMS, just move the DHS to the arm. That leaves you with 20 DHS and your choice of armor vs. streak ammo.

Edited by Spheroid, 31 December 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[DeepBurn]

Spheroid and Flyby215:

I think I've incorporated the changes that both of you have suggested. I really appreciate the input. The resulting build is here:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...478de49c4cd48cd

Does that check out? Also, where should I be on the engine size? Any reason or benefit to justify an upgrade to Ferro or Endo? Does the Artemis do anything for Streaks?

Edited by DeepBurn, 31 December 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[3rdworld]

Are you trying to use all the hardpoints? Also, put the ERs in the arms, much higher mounted.

Way more rear armor than you need btw.

my 3F build

[Rebas Kradd]

DeepBurn, on 31 December 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Spheroid and Flyby215:

I think I've incorporated the changes that both of you have suggested. I really appreciate the input. The resulting build is here:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...478de49c4cd48cd

Does that check out? Also, where should I be on the engine size? Any reason or benefit to justify an upgrade to Ferro or Endo? Does the Artemis do anything for Streaks?

Heh, the advice is starting to contradict here. Keep in mind that everything depends on what YOU want to do with your mech. We'll mostly be advising you on what worked for us in our experience, and what WE'RE trying to do.

You've actually got one of the few builds that's underweight enough from weapons to merit staying away from Endo. I did the same thing for the same reason, to cram it with heat sinks.

Ferro is useless at this point, and the official word is that Artemis does nothing for Streaks.

My advice, personally, is this: You don't want to be a sniper in the current meta unless you've got a real sniper build. Those ERLL's firing at long range will just make you noticeable to AC40 Jagernoobs, multi-PPC Cataphats, and LRM5 Spamapults.

I took my 3F and just went with six medium lasers. Not as much range but still decent. The real benefits are, your cooling ratio climbs further from the cooler weapons, you gain enough room for a 22nd heat sink, and you pick up eight more spare tons to use in maxing out your engine (a mastered STD 310 is wonderfully nimble) and throwing in some extra Streak ammo. From there, just master the mech tree for the speed tweak and torso twist.

Also, unlike some other people, I would actually add a touch more armor to the rear torsos. Keep in mind that mechs with 40 simultaneous pinpoint damage are popular out there, and I like to be able to survive at least one such blast to any component if possible.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 31 December 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[DeepBurn]

3rdworld:

Thanks for the suggestion. It is good to remember that the arm placement is quite a bit higher than the torso hardpoints. However, what I didn't like about my 4xERPPC build is that it only performed well at range. I would like to have a build that uses a mix of energy and ballistics so that I don't have to spend so much time staring at my heat levels. While I like the build you run, it would be something I would try separately from what I am trying to achieve now.

Rebas Kradd:

Thanks for all the info. It's nice to get answers to some of those upgrade questions that I am not quite familiar with just yet. Also, the rear armor may come in handy as my PPC build kept me well enough back to spot flanks quickly enough while this build will put me closer to the thick of it and probably punish my back a bit more. Additionally, the ERLLs may just make me a target without doing enough damage to warrant the heat and weight cost. I'll give it a try and see if I miss having more of a long reach. Would it be possible to get you to link me your build?

[Roadkill]

Rebas Kradd, on 31 December 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

the official word is that Artemis does nothing for Streaks.

Unless it was stealth patched recently, the official word is wrong. Artemis reduces the time needed to gain a missile lock, even with Streaks. It's a pretty noticeable reduction, too.

The part that doesn't function is the tighter grouping. Since Streaks track individually, tighter groupings don't make any sense.

[Nemesis Duck]

I rarely use XL engines for reliability, maybe in lights for speed where you can dodge attacks. Always take endo steel, never take fibrous until the final tweaking for perfection, use it to fill unused slots and to get another ammo. As others mention, tweak your armour to get your final weight allowances. Artemis is always worth it when your primary weapons are SRM or LRM. Group your arm weapons and your torso weapons separate, build them to be two modes of firing.

I don't think that artemis works with SSRM, there isn't an Artemis version for sale to assume it.

[Roadkill]

Assmodeus, on 31 December 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I don't think that artemis works with SSRM, there isn't an Artemis version for sale to assume it.

Artemis in MWO has two functions:

1) If you have LOS to the target, Artemis causes the fired missiles to form a tighter group which in turn concentrates the damage better. Less spread. This effect requires a special Artemis version of the missile launcher and special Artemis missile ammunition.

2) Artemis decreases the amount of time it takes to gain a missile lock. It does this for any missile launcher, including Streaks. It's a pretty significant decrease, too... as I recall it's about 50%. You gain missile locks FAST when you have Artemis.

Function #1 doesn't work for Streaks. But Function #2 most definitely does unless it was stealth patched out recently.

[Fuggles]

DeepBurn, on 31 December 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Spheroid and Flyby215:

I think I've incorporated the changes that both of you have suggested. I really appreciate the input. The resulting build is here:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...478de49c4cd48cd

Does that check out? Also, where should I be on the engine size? Any reason or benefit to justify an upgrade to Ferro or Endo? Does the Artemis do anything for Streaks?

This is good. Personally, I'd swap the ams out for another heatsink. I've run this exactt same loadout (without ams) and it's amazingly successful.

Btw the std 300 is my go to engine for stalkers, it's the sweetspot.

Edited by Fuggles, 31 December 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[DeepBurn]

I've continued to evolve the build. Here is what I have now:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aaa3e74c003097a

I'm still 2-tons light. How can I utilize it? I could go to full armor on the legs but I'd still be a bit over 1.5-tons on the light side.

[Spheroid]

^310 STD is uber niche. You can throw a 300 STD in anything. Are you really comfortable with zero long range weapons? The advantage of the Stalker is that if you lose half your mech you can alpha your remaining weapons from the reduced heat load.

Do you want a dedicated close range brawler? If so I would boat lasers and regular SRMs.

I run my 3F as a super-stock generalist.
300 STD, endo, 17 DHS, 2x LLAS, 2x LRM10(2 tons ammo), 4x mlas, AMS, 2x SRM4(1 ton ammo).

Instead of buying more engines you need to buy the lesser non-3F Stalkers, basic them and sell them back once done. Sell all 255 STDs as they are not needed. The Stalker as you know handles like a blimp. 2x basic + another module makes a huge difference in combat.

Edited by Spheroid, 01 January 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[DeepBurn]

Spheroid, on 01 January 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Do you want a dedicated close range brawler? If so I would boat lasers and regular SRMs.

I'll likely reduce the engine to a STD 300. I didn't think about the reuseability of the engine. That is not something to forget given the cost of the things. I have also been toying with the idea of swapping the Streaks out for standard SRMs (haven't decided what size). I can track and lead targets fairly consistently. I don't think I would enjoy or use the LRMs much unless I completely dropped the SRMs and wholly invested in the LRM approach.

Also, I would like to try to keep my firing groups as close to two as possible while I get more comfortable with the feel of the mech/game. I am equally happy chaining and linking weapon groups and have gotten much better at managing heat. It was a basic necessity with the PPC build. I just got tired of my 4xERPPC build.

What are your thoughts on shifting to LLasers or potentially trying out the pulse versions of either the Mlas or LLas?

[Spheroid]

^ You could try 2x LLAS + 2 PPC. Four ER PPC produces insane amounts of heat, that is why that particular Stalker build is not working for you. 4x PPC used to be the standard loadout months ago, but the designers severely increased their heat. ER weapons are not needed on all maps. If you find yourself engaging at under 600 meters you might as well use the shorter range versions.

[DeepBurn]

Spheroid, on 01 January 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

4x PPC used to be the standard loadout months ago, but the designers severely increased their heat.

Does the "ghost heat" I keep reading about affect a 4-ERPPC build if they are chain-fired?

[Corbon Zackery]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a6a5e8f0991d123

[ProtoformX]

DeepBurn, on 01 January 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Does the "ghost heat" I keep reading about affect a 4-ERPPC build if they are chain-fired?

No, ghost heat only activates when you fire 3 or more ER PPC's within 0.5 seconds of each other. You could volley fire with two groups of two ER PPC's and encounter no ghost heat.