184 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Narc doesn't provide target lock ability for all friendlies or have a bubble effect in its current form though does it?

[Lykaon]

Varent, on 31 December 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Narc 'works' but its very difficult to use wich detracts new players from using it at all. It could use a buff though. A nice change would be for it to break ECM. (why it doesn't.. no effing clue...). And another nice change would be for it to not be knocked off from damage. Have it anchor in or something.

An ammo increase wouldn't hurt as long as the NARC beacon still retains a duration of effect.Reapplications of the beacons would be needed.

Now assuming we are stuck with the ECM > all other info warfare tools. Then why not co-op yet another system to become a counter to the bloated ECM feature.Sure make NARC yet another anti ECM.

The design plan for Information warfare is already

Bring ECM= win info warfare

Bring ECM and BAP and PPC and TAG and UAV and etc... to mitigate enemy information warfare victory for having ECM.

May as well keep feeding that monster.

[Varent]

Lykaon, on 02 January 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

An ammo increase wouldn't hurt as long as the NARC beacon still retains a duration of effect.Reapplications of the beacons would be needed.

Now assuming we are stuck with the ECM > all other info warfare tools. Then why not co-op yet another system to become a counter to the bloated ECM feature.Sure make NARC yet another anti ECM.

The design plan for Information warfare is already

Bring ECM= win info warfare

Bring ECM and BAP and PPC and TAG and UAV and etc... to mitigate enemy information warfare victory for having ECM.

May as well keep feeding that monster.

Im down with it. and I dunno... i admit im not a pro at NARC. I think I would want to play with it for a solid weak before I could say if it needs more ammo or not.

[Sandpit]

Someone also suggested a 3 minute timer

That's just way too long. 20-30 seconds would be a good starting point in my opinion

[Trauglodyte]

NARC does a decently good job for what it does now. It is just really heavy, not very well understood, hard to use, only affects one weapon system, and falls off when someone sneezes at the target. All it needs is a slight quality of life adjustment (ie, some added range, no fall off implication, and a BAP bump) and it is quality. Then, at that people, people just need to learn how to play with it in use. A lot of the issues with BAP really comes down to L2P, even though I really hate saying that. But, adding some actual help to it would be HUGE. And, this game already needs a major injection of added information warfare help.

[Sandpit]

Well as it stands now there's no real counter to ECM, I think we'd get a lot less QQ about ECM if it had an effective (I use effective because yes BAP will counter but not much of an option for scouts since it has such a limited range) counter in something that could be popped off and not require a mech to keep close contact or LOS, it would just offer more depth and options when it comes to information warfare

[Coralld]

Alcom Isst, on 31 December 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

I'm glad someone finally got the nerve to post about this.

My immediate ideal NARC:

• 8 shots/ton
  
• 500 m/s projectile speed
  
• 450 m duration
  
• 20 second duration
  
• TAG effects through its duration
  
• TAG effects are canceled out by a neighboring ECM
  
• Disables ECM of target (PPC Style) through its duration

An ECM countering NARC would be a great D-DC counter, though its projectile nature would limit it against fast and evasive ECM Lights and Cicadas, which is absolutely positively fine.

Sandpit, on 01 January 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

That's one of the best ideas I've seen. My only addition is that it not only negates the target mech but has a bubble area like ECM currently does

I would also go one step further, make it so that NARC has its anti-ECM bubble ability work even when slapped to terrain surfaces such as the ground, walls, and ceilings. However, targets in side the anti-ECM bubble will not be marked on your radar as you still need some one with line of site.

[Sandpit]

Coralld, on 05 January 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

I would also go one step further, make it so that NARC has its anti-ECM bubble ability work even when slapped to terrain surfaces such as the ground, walls, and ceilings. However, targets in side the anti-ECM bubble will not be marked on your radar as you still need some one with line of site.

That would make it a bit OP in my opinion.

Realistically it would do so if that were one of the features because it's broadcasting a target signal and jammer but balance wise I think that would just be putting an easy button on it.

[Coralld]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

That would make it a bit OP in my opinion.

Realistically it would do so if that were one of the features because it's broadcasting a target signal and jammer but balance wise I think that would just be putting an easy button on it.

Unless the time duration is significantly less when its on the ground as appose to being attached to a mech. When attached to a mech it has a timer of 25-30 sec, but on terrain its 8-10 sec. I don't know, I just want them to be useful but at the same time I don't want them to be OP either.

[MustrumRidcully]

If I am not mistaken, the exact effect of Narc is currently that it allows you (or anyone) to lock the target even if it is in ECM.

Trauglodyte, on 03 January 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

NARC does a decently good job for what it does now. It is just really heavy, not very well understood, hard to use, only affects one weapon system, and falls off when someone sneezes at the target. All it needs is a slight quality of life adjustment (ie, some added range, no fall off implication, and a BAP bump) and it is quality. Then, at that people, people just need to learn how to play with it in use. A lot of the issues with BAP really comes down to L2P, even though I really hate saying that. But, adding some actual help to it would be HUGE. And, this game already needs a major injection of added information warfare help.

I think range is pretty much useless for the Narc, unlses it also gets a lot faster (speed of an AC/20 projectile) or can also lock on (which could also be counter-productive). I think it's okay if stays relatively short range, if it gets a duration increase and the damage threshold is increased by a factor of 3 or 4 or even entirely removed.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Thorqemada, on 01 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

The thing with NARC is that it only works for Mechs that do not use Artemis bcs Artemis overrides NARC with and without LOS according to the Devs.

Enemy ECM cancels it out.

I dont see how anything other than a whole new NARC implementation may give it a sense.

So why don't they just ignore the rule as they did for ECM in the first place? (All due to everyone missilleing Paul to death)

Edited by Nik Van Rhijn, 06 January 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Sandpit]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 06 January 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

So why don't they just ignore the rule as they did for ECM in the first place? (All due to everyone missilleing Paul to death)

This essentially, this is one of the times I think balancing should override lore and TT rules and wouldn't really deviate enough to leave a bad taste in hardcore TT mouths

[Sug]

Adding the 'breaks on X damage' mechanic was one of the dumbest things they've put in game. A one minute duration would be fine. Unless you get caught out in the open all NARC is going to do is force a player to take cover for a minute. And if you're out in the open you're dead anyways.

ECM and NARC should just cancel each other out. Meaning an ECM mech that gets narced will lose it's ECM for one minute but will not show up on radar out of LOS. Like a normal mech.

So narc that ddc and then narc a guy next to him for an LRM target. Or tag ddc. etc.

Edited by Sug, 08 January 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[Sandpit]

Sug, on 08 January 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Adding the 'breaks on X damage' mechanic was one of the dumbest things they've put in game. A one minute duration would be fine. Unless you get caught out in the open all NARC is going to do is force a player to take cover for a minute. And if you're out in the open you're dead anyways.

Considering most matches are done within about 6-7 minutes you're asking for a mech to seek cover which potentially puts them out of the fight for 1/6 or 1.7 of the entire match. That's just a bit too long in my opinion. This would be especially true if you get two scouts running a couple of narcs with a couple of tons. They could potentially negate and force an entire team to huddle behind cover for the entire match.
I'd still start with about 20 seconds and go from there

[CheeseThief]

I'd prefer the NARC got a large buff without making it yet another counter to ECM.
Like say...
1 Minute duration and no damage cap, improves missile tracking and lock on speed while providing a lock regardless of line of sight.

However the NARC should still be countered by ECM and perhaps be deactivated for 4 seconds every time the mech it is attached to gets hit by a PPC. The beacon itself falls off when the section it's attached too has been removed (either armour or internals) and can be quickly and easily removed by applying friendly MG or flamer fire to the effected mech.



NARC gets a solid buff and lots of counters, PPCs, ECM, AMS, MG's, Flamers and heavy cover, but if you get NARCed without any of those nearby, then your going to have a bad time.

ECM has enough counters as it is, and as much as I hate it's implementation it doesn't need to be countered by things it was originally supposed to counter in the first place.

Edited by CheeseThief, 08 January 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Deathlike]

Guys... NARC counters ECM. Seriously.

[Sandpit]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Guys... NARC counters ECM. Seriously.

I'm not saying it doesn't. I've gotten drawn into a couple of side-tracks but essentially I'm talking about giving it a bit of a buff.

[Sug]

Sandpit, on 08 January 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

I'd still start with about 20 seconds and go from there

You're probably right.

[Sandpit]

Sug, on 08 January 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

You're probably right.

I dunno, I just would like to see it get a little nudge without sending the community into a new QQ storm over it lol

[Sybreed]

I'm glad someone finally got the nerves to post this

http://mwomercs.com/...ve-the-narc-hp/

http://mwomercs.com/...be-more-viable/

http://mwomercs.com/...er-infowarfare/

http://mwomercs.com/...snt-make-sense/

http://mwomercs.com/...ke-narc-viable/

I agree with what your saying, but you know I had to (hint: check who's the OP of some of these threads)

Varent, on 31 December 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Narc 'works' but its very difficult to use wich detracts new players from using it at all. It could use a buff though. A nice change would be for it to break ECM. (why it doesn't.. no effing clue...). And another nice change would be for it to not be knocked off from damage. Have it anchor in or something.

you probably know that what you're asking is actually reversing the roles of ECM/NARC/BAP, etc. ECM was supposed to counter BAP and NARC, not the other way around?

Also, the knocking off from damage thing really needs to go. It's the biggest thing going against NARC.

Edited by Sybreed, 08 January 2014 - 07:38 PM.