48 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Dirkdaring, on 01 January 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

I don't mind them changing the clan weapons around somewhat, but what will be the laughing stock of lore for me is if clans drop beside IS mechs.

A clanner would rather put on a pink polka dotted dress and frolic in the daisies than fight alongside freebirth scum.

This I agree with.

[Sandpit]

Dirkdaring, on 01 January 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

I don't mind them changing the clan weapons around somewhat, but what will be the laughing stock of lore for me is if clans drop beside IS mechs.

A clanner would rather put on a pink polka dotted dress and frolic in the daisies than fight alongside freebirth scum.

Uhm not exactly true. After the treaty and cease fire there were many clans that sided with IS pilots.
Wolf - in - exile comes to mind.
It's been a long time and I'm sure someone with better memory than I can expound on warden clans and such

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Uhm not exactly true. After the treaty and cease fire there were many clans that sided with IS pilots.
Wolf - in - exile comes to mind.
It's been a long time and I'm sure someone with better memory than I can expound on warden clans and such

Yes... but that happened much much later....

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 01 January 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Yes... but that happened much much later....

I would agree if pgi hadn't said they were pretty much throwing the time line out the window
We SHOULD have had all this time to battle over the inner sphere in cw before clans were ever even announced but that went to {Scrap} in a deluge of missed deadlines unfortunately
Realistically at this point clans are nothing more than a different tech to play with. There's going to be no storyline or cool invasion, just a new set of mechs and factions to play with
That may sound a bit cynical but I don't see any other way they can do it given the time lines they've laid out for implementing cw and such
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any other realistic or practical way it can work
IF we get a full fledged cw within the next month or so maybe but I really don't see that happening

[Noesis]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Uhm not exactly true. After the treaty and cease fire there were many clans that sided with IS pilots.
Wolf - in - exile comes to mind.
It's been a long time and I'm sure someone with better memory than I can expound on warden clans and such

Technically as an MWO pilot you may already be fighting alongside Clans.

Wolf Dragoons are technically Clan Wolf insurgents up until they become IS Wardens in a few years time and are still following standing orders from Clan Wolf.

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 01 January 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

Technically as an MWO pilot you may already be fighting alongside Clans.

Wolf Dragoons are technically Clan Wolf insurgents up until they become IS Wardens in a few years time and are still following standing orders from Clan Wolf.

I know but I also know that many players' knowledge of the clans begins and ends with the initial invasion depicted in the MW, cartoon, and jade falcon novels
That's the extent of their experience with the lore of the clans.
There's a lot more to it but I doubt we will see any of that in this particular game
The only way I see that being feasible would be a complete reset once cw is here and starting from there to push the time line forward.
That simply cannot happen with people already paying for clan packages

[Mycrus]

No TT background for me.

I'm thinking why not have clan mechs have 3crit XL side torsos and the reduction in crits to the CT... That way dev don't need to change how mech death occurs...

[Sephlock]

Slepnir, on 01 January 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

There have been a slew of clan balancing topics but that's not the key thing I want to address, I keep seeing this concept being said- "clans broke the TT game" and I want to address it and put an end to it. I have been playing the TT game since 1987, I played the succession wars and yes I played the clan invasion and beyond. In fact I still play on a regular basis we play different eras in my gaming group, as well as IS v IS, clan V clan and IS V clan as well.

To the guy who people point to who worked for fasa and the posters that re-iterate his position it absolutely did not break the game, not in the least

The thing about TT is that there are a slew of mitigating balance factors in-built into the game. via various crit and pilot damage as well as random hit locations

Obviously we cannot do random hit locations in a FPS game and they do have some crit location hits (but not he full range) a point I think needs to be addressed is that clan mechs DO NOT have better armor than their IS counterparts. while their guns hit harder and go farther they are just as easy to kill by an IS mechs weapons as any other IS mechs.

I believe this point has been missed in the "nerf the clan weapons" topics that keep popping up. In the TT experience when we put 2 IS lances against a single clan star it is a fair fight.

Translating to MWO, all of us have played enough by now to know that if we drop short due to matchmaker or disconnect bugs we really have to step up our game to compensate for being out-numbered. after considering this I don't think that clan weapons, even as good as they should be, will be anything but a fair fight especially if they start out outnumbered. by an IS force.

P.S. sorry about the wall of text, for some reason the MWO forums wont let me, return or tab down to start a new paragraph

Fixed. Mostly.

Anyway, you should know that their engineers hate reversing any decision that they've made that isn't a buff to missiles.

[Sandpit]

Mycrus, on 01 January 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

No TT background for me.

I'm thinking why not have clan mechs have 3crit XL side torsos and the reduction in crits to the CT... That way dev don't need to change how mech death occurs...

It's been a while but I think this is tt clan xl

[FupDup]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

It's been a while but I think this is tt clan xl

TT Clan XL is the same size in the CT as any IS engine, but only 2 crits per side torso. Thus, they could survive the loss of one side torso (but not both).

[Sandpit]

FupDup, on 01 January 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

TT Clan XL is the same size in the CT as any IS engine, but only 2 crits per side torso. Thus, they could survive the loss of one side torso (but not both).

There we have it thank you sir

[Slepnir]

SaltBeef, on 01 January 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

WRONG! Inner sphere FF was 12 percent better protection Clan 20 percent better over standard. http://www.sarna.net...i/Ferro-Fibrous http://www.sarna.net...lan_Armor_Types

So explain to me the part where your 40 points of facing armor somehow takes less than 10 damage from an AC10 at optimal range simply because it is clan armor? oh wait it doesn't. were talking about protection capability here in MWO not how much it weighs. they are the same if it is IS or clan meaning that your still just as fragile in a clan mech as you are in an IS mech with the same amount of armor.

Dirus Nigh, on 01 January 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Clan tech did unbalance battletech. Randal Bills, and Wiesman have said as much. They also said they would have done it differently if they had the chance.

And they are wrong, gaming experience says otherwise.

Edited by Slepnir, 02 January 2014 - 02:13 AM.

[Slepnir]

elsie, on 01 January 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

It may not have broke your TT game. But it definitely broke mine and a couple of others that I observed. Besides FASA, I also have to blame a number of the players back then as well; they fell into three basic groups - the ones that liked the concept of the clans; the ones that were munchkins and wanted the easiest, lowest risk side; and the monkeys-with-the-gun that just wanted the BFG because they couldn't win any other way. You could play against the first group fairly well. The other two, not so much. So my game went from a fairly varied, frequent group of players to a small number of regular players to a smaller group of infrequent players as we gradually got tired of it.


elsie

I could be wrong but did you make the mistake of allowing custom designs or force players to only use stock builds? We have never allowed custom loadouts outside of campaign scenario scavenging, also if you used the force balancer of 2:1 odds having the BFG or munchkins in your game wouldn't be that bad since they will be facing a fair fight when they are outnumbered and ganged up on.

[Slepnir]

Another point I think PGI has really cause a problem for themselves is in the hardpoint space restrictions. Ghost heat is a great idea for taking engine criticals, but not very good at stopping boating of weapons you should never have been able to fit. Take for example the catapult K2, if they followed slot space restrictions you could pull off a MG and stick in an AC2 but nothing else would fit because all the other ACs take up more than 1 slot. same with PPCs. you got a medium laser slot? great you can fit any energy weapon in there that only takes up 1 slot, not fill it with PPCs. People would be forced to take more interesting and well rounded builds and make clan Omni mechs actually Omni instead of the current design where IS mechs are more Omni than Omni's

[Thorn Hallis]

Dirkdaring, on 01 January 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

I don't mind them changing the clan weapons around somewhat, but what will be the laughing stock of lore for me is if clans drop beside IS mechs.

A clanner would rather put on a pink polka dotted dress and frolic in the daisies than fight alongside freebirth scum.

The Clans are using Star League 'Mechs in their second line and garrision units, which are mostly staffed by freebirths.

Slepnir, on 02 January 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

Another point I think PGI has really cause a problem for themselves is in the hardpoint space restrictions. Ghost heat is a great idea for taking engine criticals, but not very good at stopping boating of weapons you should never have been able to fit. Take for example the catapult K2, if they followed slot space restrictions you could pull off a MG and stick in an AC2 but nothing else would fit because all the other ACs take up more than 1 slot. same with PPCs. you got a medium laser slot? great you can fit any energy weapon in there that only takes up 1 slot, not fill it with PPCs. People would be forced to take more interesting and well rounded builds and make clan Omni mechs actually Omni instead of the current design where IS mechs are more Omni than Omni's

If IS 'Mechs would be Omnis they would have the same restrictions in terms of engine, armor and stuff. What makes an Omni an Omni is the fact that you can switch weapons and equipment without doing a balancing diceroll. There is no more magic in the term "Omni".

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 02 January 2014 - 02:31 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Thorn Hallis, on 02 January 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

If IS 'Mechs would be Omnis they would have the same restrictions in terms of engine, armor and stuff. What makes an Omni an Omni is the fact that you can switch weapons and equipment without doing a balancing diceroll. There is no more magic in the term "Omni".

Therefore IS "Omnies" are even better than actual Omnies.

[Sephlock]

CyclonerM, on 02 January 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

Therefore IS "Omnies" are even better than actual Omnies.

MUST HAVE!

[CyclonerM]

In MWO every BattleMech is better than an actual Omni..

[Locan Ravok]

People will always prefer the most powerful builds. In no time all IS mechs would be rusting in the mechbays, no matter the metagame balance.

Edited by Locan Ravok, 02 January 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dirus Nigh, on 01 January 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Clan tech did unbalance battletech. Randal Bills, and Wiesman have said as much. They also said they would have done it differently if they had the chance.

I read what they said...

SaltBeef, on 01 January 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

But they did not and for 30yrs we played it that way and loved it!!

and I agree with this guy!

Player since '86!