8 replies to this topic

[Dino Banino]

This has been bugging me a lot lately, and I would really appreciate for anyone and everyone to contribute to explaining this to me.

If Mech A has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, and Mech B has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, what is the difference between the two? Am I really choosing a Mech based on its appearance? Or are there things I'm missing?

For example, the Summoner and Timberwolf. The Timberwolf Prime has very similar slots to the Summoner-D. So what is the difference between the two other than Jump Jets and Armor Tonnage?

Also, what defines whether a Mech is a Sniper or not by default? The ability to hold a Gauss or PPC? But most Mechs can hold a Gauss or PPC that have access to Ballistic or Energy slots. So does that mean every Mech CAN be a Sniper, but isn't a Sniper by default?

When I see a Mech like the Nova, I say to myself, "now this Mech is unique having a million Energy slots". But when I see other Mechs with 1 or 2 Energy Slots, 2 Ballistics slots, etc, they all look too similar statistically.

Ultimately, what I'm really asking is, what factors do I take into account when purchasing a Mech if all Mechs are similar?

Edited by Archangel Dino, 04 October 2014 - 02:24 PM.

[Vlad Striker]

Clan mechs can switch omnipods from variants and you can confugure hardpionts at your taste. "Sniper" means loadout of instant damaging long-range weapons only plus advanced zoom module,

PS Timber Wolf have additional 5t for your needs and low profile.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 04 October 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Archangel Dino, on 04 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

This has been bugging me a lot lately, and I would really appreciate for anyone and everyone to contribute to explaining this to me.

If Mech A has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, and Mech B has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, what is the difference between the two? Am I really choosing a Mech based on its appearance? Or are there things I'm missing?

For example, the Summoner and Timberwolf. The Timberwolf Prime has very similar slots to the Summoner-D. So what is the difference between the two other than Jump Jets and Armor Tonnage?

It depends on the mechs, so with the Summoner and Timberwolf, the hardpoints are laid out differently, the hit boxes are different, they have a different mix of quirks (and will have more tweaks in the future).

These two are also really close in how the move with one difference is that the Summoner can turn it torso further left to right for example.

smurfy's has some variables you can see by clicking on them to see for yourself.

Quote

Also, what defines whether a Mech is a Sniper or not by default? The ability to hold a Gauss or PPC? But most Mechs can hold a Gauss or PPC that have access to Ballistic or Energy slots. So does that mean every Mech CAN be a Sniper, but isn't a Sniper by default?

When I see a Mech like the Nova, I say to myself, "now this Mech is unique having a million Energy slots". But when I see other Mechs with 1 or 2 Energy Slots, 2 Ballistics slots, etc, they all look too similar statistically.

Ultimately, what I'm really asking is, what factors do I take into account when purchasing a Mech if all Mechs are similar?

My approach is how do I want to play? I prefer fighting up close so I go for more missile slots for SRMs and a good blend of agility and hitboxes with JJs.

So for a Sniper a big part is high mounted Hard Points, so that would make the Jager and Black Jack better than the Thunderbolt and Vindicator as a Sniper Platform for example.

[Redshift2k5]

There are a lot other factors besides just hardpoints, although sometimes the appearance of the mech really is the main difference.

• Tonnage
  
• Jump jets or not
  
• Hardpoint location
  
• Lower arm actuators. Clan mechs have optional actuators but not when using ballistics or PPCs, affects if arms have lateral motion
  
• Available crit space. Head is maximum 1 crit, CT is 2, arms variable. Some clan mechs have fixed equipment like unmovable heatsinks
  
• Torso pitch angle & speed
  
• Arm pitch angle & speed
  
• Mech's overall size & shape (such as whether it can use an XL safely or not)
  
• Specific quirks (summoner has cooldown buffs for Energy and ballistics, Nova has cooldown nerf for energy, etc IS mechs quirk pass is coming soon)
  
• Variants (you need 3 of a kind to complete the skills, you may have to use one variant because you are upgrading it's compatriots)

so yes, even two mechs with the same hardpoints can have a lot of things that set them apart. you can put an AC20 in the arm on a Blackjack but not the arm of a Vindicator, some Victors can load AC20s in the arms and some can't. some Shadowhawks have a missile hardpoint in the head and CT, both of which have limited space. Griffin has mad torso twist.


There will be some cases where mech A can do some builds better than mech B, but generally mech B has at least something specific about it worth considering. (and ones that don't have any benefits are all due to get some buffs and quirks eventually)

As we get more mechs there will, by necessity, be more overlap, since there are only three types of hardpoints. The 50 tonners and 55 tonners have some overlap but also a lot of differences in how they drive, what their other variants can do, etc

Edited by Redshift2k5, 04 October 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

in addition to what else has been said
in your example the Summoneer VS the Timber Wolf, you are trading 1 balistic and 2 AMS slots for 1 Laser and 2 missile slots, also after maxing armor the Timber Wolf has an extra 7 tonnes while of free space compaired to the Summoner despite having more armor and being the same speed, while the Summoner has Jumpjets which cannot be removed.

Many IS mechs have missile tube limitations, e.g. some mechs only have 1 or 2 tubes for a launcher so if you fit an SRM6 it fires in 6 single or 3 double missile salvos, see this build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...63dd6d5258e875c
if you look carefully at the missile hardpoints they are displayed as 1M (2), this means that there is 1 missile hardpoint with 2 tubes maximum so the 20 LRMs will be fired as 10 salvos, 2 missiles each, the LRM20 would be ready to fire again before the first 20 have finished launching

It can make a huge difference if a weapon it in the arm or torso, an arm mounted weapon is better able to shoot at something above or below you than a torso mounted weapon, and if the Mech has lower arm actuators is also much easier to track fast moving targets with, while conversely if you have a torso mounted weapon it will only ever fire at what is in the center of your screen

Weapons in low mounted hardpoints may hit the hill you are climbing over while high mounted hardpoints are less likely to

[Koniving]

Vlad Striker, on 04 October 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

PS Timber Wolf have additional 5t for your needs and low profile.

This isn't necessarily true of Omnimechs.
Summoner has 20.69 tons free with max armor.
Timber Wolf has 27.46 tons free with max armor.

You can also have lighter mechs that have more free tonnage for equipment than larger ones.

(Also it's true the TW has a lower profile here...sadly the fact that a Summoner is supposed to be shorter than a Timber Wolf was not put into this game. Scales.)

[DivineEvil]

Quote

If Mech A has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, and Mech B has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, what is the difference between the two? Am I really choosing a Mech based on its appearance? Or are there things I'm missing?

Most obvious difference around the table is mech profile. It's not merely a visual feature, but the ability of a particular chassis to avoid damage from particular angles or weapons. All mechs has different forward-back, side-to-side and top-down profiles. Mechs with large forward profile is easy targets for long range weapons, large side profile is more susceptible to collateral damage in close combat, and large top profile is easier to hit with LRMs and Artillery/Air strikes.

Besides that there's hardpoint location, critical slot restrictions on those locations, mech quirks and dynamic stats, which makes theoretically similar mechs to be vastly different in preferable roles they succeed at in practice.

Quote

Also, what defines whether a Mech is a Sniper or not by default? The ability to hold a Gauss or PPC? But most Mechs can hold a Gauss or PPC that have access to Ballistic or Energy slots. So does that mean every Mech CAN be a Sniper, but isn't a Sniper by default?

Two most notable feats for a good Sniper mechs are low forward profile, and higher allocated hardpoints for weapons they use. Examples include Light Raven, Medium Blackjack, Heavy Jagermech and Assault Stalker. Highly placed energy and ballistic hardpoints allow them to fire from cover with less exposure, while lower forward profile make them harder to spot and to land an accurate return fire. They usually pay for this with small arm hitboxes, which leaves them unable to shield and spread damage in close combat unlike Brawlers.

[Redshift2k5]

Yeah, a good comparison can be made between the Awesome & Victor vs the Stalker as a 'sniper' platform.

The Awesome stock comes with a belly full of PPCs, but the Stalker actually does a better job as a PPC platform since it's much narrower from the front and has weapon mounted much higher (so it exposes less of itself when peeking those energy hardpoints over a ridge)

The same holds true for other chassis, like a Jagermech is better at dual gauss than a Cataphract since it's weapons are mounted at shoulder height and not hip height.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 06 October 2014 - 05:12 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Archangel Dino, on 04 October 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

This has been bugging me a lot lately, and I would really appreciate for anyone and everyone to contribute to explaining this to me.

If Mech A has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, and Mech B has 2 Energy Slots and 2 Missile Slots, what is the difference between the two? Am I really choosing a Mech based on its appearance? Or are there things I'm missing?

For example, the Summoner and Timberwolf. The Timberwolf Prime has very similar slots to the Summoner-D. So what is the difference between the two other than Jump Jets and Armor Tonnage?

Also, what defines whether a Mech is a Sniper or not by default? The ability to hold a Gauss or PPC? But most Mechs can hold a Gauss or PPC that have access to Ballistic or Energy slots. So does that mean every Mech CAN be a Sniper, but isn't a Sniper by default?

When I see a Mech like the Nova, I say to myself, "now this Mech is unique having a million Energy slots". But when I see other Mechs with 1 or 2 Energy Slots, 2 Ballistics slots, etc, they all look too similar statistically.

Ultimately, what I'm really asking is, what factors do I take into account when purchasing a Mech if all Mechs are similar?

Well things such as your question from mech to mech as in timber wolf to summoner. Well answer would be there is a lot of differences. Tonnage available and slots available for weapons differ from mech to mech, just how the summoner is 70 tons and the timber wolf 75 tons. There is even armor count damage, where the weapons are mounted on the mech, and other quirks and abilities (such as jump jets, turn ratios, and speed).

Next question you brought up is sniper and what defines the mech as such, and with that you have three things you must look at:
- weapons load out
- weapons mount
- mech abilities

OK I will give you an example, now the jager mech has high weapon mounts in the arms. The weapons load out is a dual gauss rifles, and maybe a small back up laser system or something to that effect. This will be a sniper mech.

Why?
Well the gauss rifles gives it extreme ranges like a sniper would need. After that it would be the high mounts allowing the mech to barely peak over a hill and have effect ability. Like a sniper slimming his profile by laying prone on the ground. After that is mech abilities well a gauss jager is a glass cannon some would also call a lone sniper an esy target once found and targeted in the same.

Another example, griffon has multiple energy weapons in the arm lets say 2 ERPPCs. So the mech carries 2 ERPPCs in the right arm and maybe some srm2 back ups. The mech has jump jets allowing it to jump snipe, since the erppcs are int he right arm able to snipe around a corner or a hill at extreme ranges with the ERPPCs.

Now with both of these mechs I have shown you load out needs range, weapon mounts need to be able to slim profile (with that being high mounts or weapons in on arm to peak around corners), and then abilities such as able to move with jump jets or have vulnerability due to giving speed and weapons instead of armor or other weapons for long range and high power.