550 replies to this topic

[Cyberiad]

Heffay, on 14 October 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

There could be ways to implement this via through-shield criticals, or damage reduction. But on a gameplay level, having a resource that you have to manage (power to shields for example) provides a lot more opportunities for trade offs than a blanket % damage reduction.

Of course, the damage reduction could also be dynamic depending on how you power your shields, but then combat becomes pretty RNG based, where you are in a war of attrition hoping to not lose a critical component early in the fight.

Eh. It could go either way. I think brick wall shields are plenty cool and don't interfere with my mathemagical sensibilities at all.

Well, in the real "force field" model, you could implement an energy battery that is depleted depending on how much actual work (force * distance) the field applies. Bullets would just be deflected away from the centre of the field and may or may not hit the ship depending on the angle and velocity of the bullets until the shield runs out of energy. You would also not have to animate glowey transparent shield textures (which I think looks silly anyways).

[Heffay]

Silicon Life, on 14 October 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

You would also not have to animate glowey transparent shield textures (which I think looks silly anyways).

Those are staples of almost every sci-fi show out there. People *like* glowy shield textures.

And I see no reason why they aren't just as mathy as what you're proposing. They can deflect & absorb a certain amount of energy, and recharge at a certain rate, and both those are governed by math. We're talking about something that doesn't really exist, so it can be implemented any way the designer chooses. And that is no more or less "realistic" than any other way.

[Cyberiad]

Heffay, on 14 October 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Those are staples of almost every sci-fi show out there. People *like* glowy shield textures.

And I see no reason why they aren't just as mathy as what you're proposing. They can deflect & absorb a certain amount of energy, and recharge at a certain rate, and both those are governed by math. We're talking about something that doesn't really exist, so it can be implemented any way the designer chooses. And that is no more or less "realistic" than any other way.

Well the brick wall shields are basically a function like:
When r = 5, F = infinity, otherwise F = 0

It stops projectiles at one exact distance and stops it no matter the velocity and mass of the projectile. These type of forces don't exist in real life although an impulse function is sometimes used to approximate events like a hammer blow.

A continuous function would bend projectiles away from the ship instead of stopping them and would be modeled by something like:
F = 1/(r^2)

and you could add a clamp to for practical purposes: when r > 5, F = 0

EDIT: also force fields do exist in real-life, you are in one right now, its called gravity the shields in games aren't really force fields as a field implies a smooth continuous gradient, the shields in games are more like barriers of infinite force

Edited by Silicon Life, 14 October 2014 - 11:45 AM.

[Heffay]

Silicon Life, on 14 October 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Well the brick wall shields are basically a function like:
When r = 5, F = infinity, otherwise F = 0

It stops projectiles at one exact distance and stops it no matter the velocity and mass of the projectile. These type of forces don't exist in real life although an impulse function is sometimes used to approximate events like a hammer blow.

Actually they do. There are types of liquids that the harder you hit them, the more solid they are. You can run across a pool full of it, but if you stand still you sink. A shield could be just an energy version of that.

[Hex Pallett]

Speaking of which...is force field even possible?

I mean, it can't even be explained with science - FTL travel? Well the Alcubierre algorithm needs some improvement, and we need to figure out a way to achieve negative mass, but it's mathematically feasible. Walking 'mech? We already have walking robots, give it a century or so it's gonna be possible. Same goes with compact fission reactor, clean energy, cryosleep, BattleTech-style armor, etc. But force field? The nearest thing is Trophy system but that's basically firing a bunch of shrapnel toward the general direction of the projectile.

Screw it, I'm doing some early work on my sci-fi universe and there's not gonna be force field in it.

Edited by Helmstif, 14 October 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Kyone Akashi]

You know, the shields currently in the game are just placeholders for a more complicated mechanic.



The finalized rules from the game's Design Discussion Archive also mention "resistance" values, which refer to the shield negating a certain amount of damage without weakening, and other threads in the archive speak about how different weapon types affect shields differently, such as lasers being more efficient at taking down shields than kinetic weaponry, or weapons being capable of penetrating the shield at least partially.

(lasers and kinetics differing in efficiency against shields and hull is already in the game, btw - it's why my Viper was kitted out with two large, fixed pulse lasers for long range engagement, and switching to two smaller but auto-tracking gimballed multicannons for close range "knife fighting" in order to punch through the target's armor.)

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 14 October 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Roburn Bliss]

Gorgeous time lapse video:

[Roburn Bliss]

3:19 on the following vid Elite can sometimes look stunning!

[Lily from animove]

Heffay, on 14 October 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

And this is why people should never confuse reality with fun.

but we still could have fun on a more realistic base.

Roburn Bliss, on 19 October 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

3:19 on the following vid Elite can sometimes look stunning!

Woah all that horrorscenarios of elite docking attemps,
I mean why is there a HUGE trading station in space having such a supertight entrance? Docking in elite was probbaly the most dangerous you could come across.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 October 2014 - 01:00 AM.

[Alreech]

Lily from animove, on 20 October 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

I mean why is there a HUGE trading station in space having such a supertight entrance?

Because Stanley.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

A few years ago the British were working on an 'electrical' force field system to protect there military vehicles.
- Testing was conducted and it did indeed defeat missile rounds striking the hull field.
- Especially effective against HEAT type rounds, both tank and missile fired.

The systems failed due to lack of portable power requirements and the lethality of the 'charged' vehicle to near objects.
- But it did work.

New and existing research is being conducted on ultra powerful magnetic fields with reference to containment, shielding, and manipulating matter for Fusion power devices. Perhaps some of this research will lead to production of shielding systems that are being discussed in Sci-Fi stories.
- And with all the work going into the new 'theoretical warp drive' research, they need a method to 'keep clear' the space in front of the vehicles bubble that's created. Yes, the bubble isn't actually moving, but with the space in front being contracted and expanded behind, all physical matter in that stream is still 'problematic'. (albeit, the bubble field itself may be the cure?)

So, it's no longer Sci-Fi to talk about 'force fields' as some 'pie in the sky idea', and dedicated, hard research is being done on finding a real method to bring this effect to reality. For real world applications and not just military tech hardware.

Just some info,
9erRed

[Roburn Bliss]

A nice panorama from Hyperion 5.

Edited by Roburn Bliss, 28 October 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[Heffay]

Beta 3 today! Last beta before gamma, which I still can't figure out if that is release or just release candidates.

[Kyone Akashi]

Heffay, on 28 October 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Beta 3 today! Last beta before gamma, which I still can't figure out if that is release or just release candidates.

As far as I know, "gamma" is the last stage before release ("gold") - usually, at this point all features planned for release are in the game, so further patches after gamma 1.00 would only be for bugfixing and balancing. In other words, gamma would contain the last set of major features we're gonna see for a while (meaning, until the content patches and expansions get announced).

What's still missing by this point? I think FSD-slaving, ship-to-ship docking, passenger transportation, advanced mining equipment (scanners and drones) ... hmm, were NPC crewmembers part of the release or a later stage? I don't remember.

PS: Beta 3 looks gorgeous! And mining is rather relaxing.

[xhrit]

Kyone Akashi, on 01 November 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

What's still missing by this point? I think FSD-slaving, ship-to-ship docking, passenger transportation, advanced mining equipment (scanners and drones) ... hmm, were NPC crewmembers part of the release or a later stage? I don't remember.

NPC crew are going to be released in the capital ship expansion.

[Kyone Akashi]

xhrit, on 21 November 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

NPC crew are going to be released in the capital ship expansion.

Is that one even confirmed? I recall they wanted to "look into it" ...

Anyways: nah, they need to be in sooner. Look at the ships that are already in the game - the Cobra is a two-seater, the Anaconda's bridge has three stations, etc ... Jo Taylor mentioned in the Making Of that they had to take care to design the cockpits of the bigger ships with this feature in mind. That beind said, I remember from the DDF that additional crew was optional and would only provide bonuses or take over certain systems for you, which I suppose means that we can continue to fly the ships like we do now even once NPC crews are in?

How does everyone like Beta 3.9 so far, by the way? No major new features added, but a ton of small details that just make it feel more like a complete game. Improvements to network tech/stability (so many players, lol), visuals, interface .. expanded mission complexity and NPC comms .. but my favorite addition must be the new "zoom" effect when you exit supercruise in proximity to large structures.

Also, the new menu screen is awesome!



Pretty much the only change I dislike is the new board computer voice, but it may just be a matter of getting used to it.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 21 November 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[xhrit]

Kyone Akashi, on 21 November 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Is that one even confirmed? I recall they wanted to "look into it" ...

Anyways: nah, they need to be in sooner. Look at the ships that are already in the game - the Cobra is a two-seater, the Anaconda's bridge has three stations, etc ... Jo Taylor mentioned in the Making Of that they had to take care to design the cockpits of the bigger ships with this feature in mind. That beind said, I remember from the DDF that additional crew was optional and would only provide bonuses or take over certain systems for you, which I suppose means that we can continue to fly the ships like we do now even once NPC crews are in?

They used boilerplate "position at the time" type language but that is whats planned; and all the expansions will be optional.

[Alreech]

Manning the ships with two or more players in multiplayer would be really nice.

First Strike, a Star Wars Mod for Battlefield 2142 has some awesome space battles with ships manned by up to five players.
http://firststrikemo...ellian_Corvette
http://firststrikemo...s_Light_Cruiser
Manning with 10 players the captial ships while the other 20 players of the side take control of the starfighters lead to some epic battles on 64 player servers.

[Roburn Bliss]

[Kyone Akashi]

The dropout/jump effect for capital ships is amazing. Very EventHorizon-esque.
I actually thought this effect alone was the best thing of the entire show. The battle after it was just icing on the cake.

Also, props to Kate Russel cosplaying as her character!