19 replies to this topic

[RavensScar]

In pug matches, I recently started looking more closely at the total team weights in the post-match screen. I was always under the impression that the matchmaker at least tried to class-match between the teams, but I'm not even seeing that anymore.

I'm frequently seeing matches where one team is dropping 100-150 tons heavier than the other. That's the equivalent of matching 2 mediums to 2 assaults.

While it feels great to be on an underweight team and pull off the victory, that's really not very common.

I'd be interested to know what other players are seeing. How balanced are the matches, and which way is the win going?

[Threat Doc]

I honestly don't pay that much attention, I just try to get out and win. However, anytime there's a ROFLStomp involved, and it happens with teams I'm on once or twice a night, now, whether it's my team or theirs getting splashed, I do notice. Now, don't forget that weight limitations are also coupled with ELO, so if the other team is allowed to be heavier, it might have to do with the idea they have a lower ELO. Last night, we dropped in a match with six Lights -I don't remember the exact composition of the rest of the team, but I know we outweighed them quite a bit- and they completely obliterated us in no time. I think they might also have been a pre-made, but again I didn't notice. They were well coordinated, fought well, were fast, and I got splashed in about 3.5 minutes, and the rest of my team followed me within three more minutes; it was pretty nasty.

[Bilbo]

Kay Wolf, on 02 January 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

I honestly don't pay that much attention, I just try to get out and win. However, anytime there's a ROFLStomp involved, and it happens with teams I'm on once or twice a night, now, whether it's my team or theirs getting splashed, I do notice. Now, don't forget that weight limitations are also coupled with ELO, so if the other team is allowed to be heavier, it might have to do with the idea they have a lower ELO. Last night, we dropped in a match with six Lights -I don't remember the exact composition of the rest of the team, but I know we outweighed them quite a bit- and they completely obliterated us in no time. I think they might also have been a pre-made, but again I didn't notice. They were well coordinated, fought well, were fast, and I got splashed in about 3.5 minutes, and the rest of my team followed me within three more minutes; it was pretty nasty.

The MM doesn't allow weight imbalance because of elo score. The weight imbalances are so wait times are not overly long. It tries to find the right weights in the correct elo range then expands the pool as time goes by.

[Mark Brandhauber]

Weight Imbalances have in my opinion been getting worse, more ( or less ) premades out there only running Heavy and assault only, Skirmish mode is where it seems to happen the most, I like to think that some people (like me) who play the "any" queue in a balanced weight 4 man are seeing/cause of larger weight imbalances.
I for one would be interested to know whether the match maker picks out team preferencing ELO over weight or the other way round? however it picks right now it doesn't always work, Whilst I look forward to the weight limit introduction of matchmaking I know there are many who will throw their toys out of the pram when it arrives, Though I don't expect it to arrive any time soon as there are many other items seem to have priority of developement; AKA things PGI is actively being paid for... cynical yes but true (sigh).
Just to note I have also seen my share of light wolf packs recently of both good and bad quality.

Edited by Mark Brandhauber, 02 January 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The biggest weight balance occurs when there is a light wolfpack, or a steiner scout lance 4 man. They are either so light or heavy the matchmaker simply doesn't have a similar opponent to match them with. We've had over 300 tons of imbalance on some occasions while running Meds.

[Sandpit]

And the coming tonnage limits should stop this

[TinFoilHat]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

And the coming tonnage limits should stop this

Hope to god it does. Dropped in a pug last night and come the end of the round the scoreboard showed *7* DDCs on the opposing team along with other assualts and heavies, My team had I think two Victors and a Boars Head. Needless to say it didn't go very well for my group.

[Sephlock]

How will the upcoming tonnage limits affect Locust lances?

[RavensScar]

TinFoilHat, on 02 January 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

Hope to god it does. Dropped in a pug last night and come the end of the round the scoreboard showed *7* DDCs on the opposing team along with other assualts and heavies, My team had I think two Victors and a Boars Head. Needless to say it didn't go very well for my group.

Unfortunately, I've been in a team with 6 Atlas (and a Battlemaster) and been completely steamrolled. The 6 atlas pilots seemed to believe they were invincible, and charged straight into the enemy. Ironically, the highest scoring player on our side was in a champion Blackjack.

[Bilbo]

Sephlock, on 02 January 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

How will the upcoming tonnage limits affect Locust lances?

There will be a minimum weight. A team of four will not be able to field 4 lights.

[Sephlock]

Bilbo, on 03 January 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

There will be a minimum weight. A team of four will not be able to field 4 lights.

This is discrimination against light wolfpacks!

(And also a really good idea. Sorry, light wolfpacks).

[Suko]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

And the coming tonnage limits should stop this

Soon tm

Edited by ShadowVFX, 03 January 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[Sandpit]

Bilbo, on 03 January 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

There will be a minimum weight. A team of four will not be able to field 4 lights.

Not entirely accurate if I recall

You can field what you want but it might increase your launch times trying to find your team a slot?

[Warblood]

idk.. its war.. ur always gonna have one side with more

[Zerberus]

Sephlock, on 02 January 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

How will the upcoming tonnage limits affect Locust lances?

Insecticide^TM

Becasue even if the were allowed to drop as a 4-man, 80 ton lance (which, from my understanding, will not be the case), the enemy was forced to bring mechs light enough to give even former blob pilots a fair chance to hit them

Edited by Zerberus, 04 January 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

RavensScar, on 02 January 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

In pug matches, I recently started looking more closely at the total team weights in the post-match screen. I was always under the impression that the matchmaker at least tried to class-match between the teams, but I'm not even seeing that anymore.

I'm frequently seeing matches where one team is dropping 100-150 tons heavier than the other. That's the equivalent of matching 2 mediums to 2 assaults.

While it feels great to be on an underweight team and pull off the victory, that's really not very common.

I'd be interested to know what other players are seeing. How balanced are the matches, and which way is the win going?

Or 12.5 exrta tons per Mech... It is not that big of an imbalance, and one that can be overcome IF you have teamwork, which is sorely missing in PUG.

[xe N on]

I think weight limit will even result in more imbalance then the current system.

Tonnage is not linear related with fire power or survivability. For example: if two Jenner F (6 medium laser = 30 damage alpha) fight against one atlas, I will bet for the Jenners, even though they have 40 less tons.

Another example: Compare a 65 ton dual AC/20 Jagermech vs a 65 ton Catapult C4 and decide which is more dangerous.

Tonnage is not a good indicator for the power a mech can bring to battle.

Edited by xe N on, 04 January 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Mark Brandhauber]

Talking in terms of two to one is a bad point; as two mechs lighter or not will still beat any mech they are faced against provided the pilots co-ordinate with each other (except perhaps locusts!).
IMO Mech for Mech, the pilot knows when he picks his mech it's strengths and weakness'es and plays to them; a c4 will beat a jaeger in certian environments and conditions.
I think many are taking this tonnage balance as a slight to the assault mech only players and yes it is, but only when they play in 4 man and 12 man groups. Pugging will place no such limit on tonnage from my understanding.

[SpartanFiredog317]

You know what would REALLY fix this? Bring back Rearm and Repair... yeah it was tough on rookies but I think its time to bring it back. If that 4 man atlas suddenly starts getting its lunch money taken away putting 16 tons of armor back on and reloading the AC rounds, that would discourage people from purely dropping Assaults...

You could balance some of the meta builds with this too with higher ammunition costs and a repair fee for the more advanced weapons (PPC, UAC, Gauss, Streaks)

To alleviate the bite it would take out of rookies you could have a R&R not be in effect until the rookie bonus was over and not effect newly purchased mechs until they have the basic experience package.

Edited by SpartanFiredog317, 04 January 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[Infrasound]

Tanks has ELO and tonnage, and well enough players to fill quickly all the time in different tiers. wtb that over here.