23 replies to this topic

[Shredhead]

I've seen these threads pop up so often now I'm sick and tired of it.
"Bwaaaaaaaaa, those AC20's are OP! NERFNAO!!!1eleven!"
"Wawawaaaa, AC40 Jagers killed me NERF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Granted most often it's long time players who are too lazy, stubborn or outright stupid to adapt and overcome that open these threads.
I hereby want to give you the right tactical tools at hand to defeat those so called "OP" or "Meta" builds that solely rely on pinpoint damage, be it double AC20, double Gauss or PPC+AC.

Pinpoint weapons are most effective on medium ranges. Medium range in this case is defined by your mechs speed. That's caused by 2 factors: Your pure speed and ability to dodge shots by running laterally and your torso twist speed. Both is determined by your mech's class and the engine size. The sweet spot for nearly all pinpoint weapons is between 150 and 500 meters. Below and above that range reliable hits become difficult to achieve, especially with moving, torso twisting mechs. Slow, lumbering mechs will suffer more from these enemies than nimble, fast mediums or heavies!
Keep moving all the time, even in cover!
If you want to stay in position, move back and forward constantly, take shots in a minimum of time of exposure and don't get out of cover at the same spot more than twice.

Now let's come to CQC, and the dreaded AC40.
Never run towards an enemy in a straight line!
Take your time. Do not look at the enemy, except to take a shot. Twist your torso to show him your arm, use it as a shield. Most of the times it's losing an arm or losing the mech, guess what's preferable. Use all available cover to close in and stay within those 150 meters. If you have jumpjets, learn to use them for fast turnarounds and dashing jumps to evade fire.

Now, all mechs that carry 2 AC20s have slow turning rates and torso twist and no lateral arm movement. Use that to your advantage, keep moving and stay in their blind spot and keep hammering at their side torsos. Even if they don't use an XL engine, you can half their damage output or even get an ammo explosion. Also remember that PPCs have a minimum range of 90 meters. Stay inside that to cut their effectiveness.

I have and do regularly win fights against those builds in lighter machines like Blackjack or Shadowhawk and so can you. Just remember to get close, keep up your speed and twist your torso. Also remember, if you see such an enemy and tell yourself "well, I've already lost", you have indeed already lost. The first step to overcome an obstacle is to have the will to do so!

[Y2kHippy]

A couple of other tips.

Jeagermechs with double AC20 will 90% be running an Extra Lite engine. This means their shoulders should always be your target. Stop aiming for the centre torso as the shoulders are weaker and easier to get the same result.

Shaking any the enemy also does well against these beasts. Multiple streak missile launchers on chain fire or AC2's can force your enemy to miss or not get a clear shot.

If you are fighting in a lance. Call out these monsters and focus fire them to quickly remove their threats.

[luxebo]

Since the next Champion is definitely a Heavy (We've had Spider replace Jenner, Blackjack replace Centurion, and Highlander replace Atlas) maybe the Champion would be a (God forbid) boomjag?

[GLIZZY GULPER]

luxebo, on 01 January 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

maybe the Champion would be a (God forbid) boomjag?

if that happens i'm done with this game

[Damon Howe]

Ac40 mechs are almost always front-torso armor heavy.

Which means little back armor.

Which means you wait until they turn around and then you hit them in the back with a Ac40 cicada that was hiding nearby.

[luxebo]

TalRavis, on 01 January 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

if that happens i'm done with this game

Well, we already have the jumping Blackjack walking autocannon, so I suppose hopefully not. I think they would be easy glass cannons though, as most newbies just don't do well as far as I see.

[Victor Morson]

Most common 2x AC/20 mistakes newbies make:

• NEVER stop to line up shots against an AC/20 'mech in range. KEEP moving and twisting until the last second, and pray they fire 2-popshots into different locations, and hit something non-vital.
  
• ALWAYS try to avoid getting into AC/20 optimum in the first place - the damage is half at near 500m, so if you've got the range to avoid brawling them on their turf, DO IT!
  
• LOOK for XL engines. If a 'mech carrying twin AC/20s is capable of running XL (Jagermech) and is too fast to be standard, pop the side torso and kill it fast. Most competitive AC/20 boats run Standard these days but it's rare in pugs.
  
• CHECK for weak leg armor. Again, this won't be as applicable in competitive level games, but most pug 2x AC/20 setups tend to stuff their legs full of ammo then drop their leg armor to fit a bigger engine. It's often an insultingly easy kill for standard-engine AC/20 'mechs like the K2.

TalRavis, on 01 January 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

if that happens i'm done with this game

Shhhh...

Spoiler

Boomjags are niche at best and hardly OP.

No need to fear this.

[luxebo]

Victor Morson, on 01 January 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

Shhhh...

Spoiler

Boomjags are niche at best and hardly OP.

No need to fear this.

Well, the thing is that AC40 mechs are easy to hit with, so we get newbies that will charge in and actually be able to do damage. Similar to the Blackjack.

[Devil Fox]

In essence 'Know thy enemy, and the battle is won.' You spot something deadly on the field, make a note of it's position and condition, engage at a safe range or even if on comms co-ordinate it's death. An AC40 Jager 500+ out or too busy trying to be in the front lines is easily cleaned up.

It's the same with any build that can be nasty, poptart HGN's? Get better angles, and cover in comparison and shoot out that right torso... Brawler Atlas? Back up and get some mobile firepower onto the target using cover and speed, or even friendly fire, strip it fast then ignore it... fast medium wrecking crews? If tarting just pop them on the up fly, they can't take continuous punishment, or if running around just leg them.

Any battle can be won, any build can be beat... it's just taking the time to notice what is on the battlefield, where they are, what their doing and how potent they are at any given time. Tactical thinking and battle analysis on the fly are skills that must be learnt and honed, but it will pay off when you can located and identify enemy tactics and counter them in real time.

[YueFei]

Map vision and awareness helps to see the AC/40 Jager (or any devastating short-ranged build) coming from a distance. Don't mush your face up against a piece of cover and blind yourself. Don't pick a spot on the map that prevents you from seeing anything (don't cower in a valley or a depression).

[xengk]

If you spot one, use team chat to let everyone know so they can LRM it to death.

[GLIZZY GULPER]

Victor Morson, on 01 January 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

Shhhh...

Spoiler

Boomjags are niche at best and hardly OP.

No need to fear this.

It's not the fact that they're OP or anything.

It's the fact that everyone will have access to them.

[Rhaythe]

Another Tip:

Fight in 3 dimensions. Most players will try to track you only along the x- and y-axis. It takes more effort to track your target along all three axies, so use that to your advantage. Engage AC40 mechs in hilly terrain, especially if you're in a lighter chassis. You'll be surprised at how often that salvo of 40 points of pain goes flying over your head or digs a trench in the ground beneath you.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

If I get ambushed by a Jaegerbomb, or have a sudden rush of excrement to the brain, they can ruin my day as Medium pilot. Generally, I can't carry enough armour to tank a 40-point hit (well, usually can if I'm totally fresh when hit, but they're not going to fire just once...).

However, if I see one looking in my general direction, whether I'm with friends or not, it's an immediate 80-degree turn from me. If I'm lucky they choose something else when I disappear behind a building, and if they come after me... still lucky for me. I get to dictate the engagement, then. Even if the Jaeger wins, it's now away from its team and easy pickings after I've beaten the {Scrap} out of it.

Always go for the shoulder. Even if it's one of those rare STD Jaegerbombs, it's now down an AC/20.

[Alaskan Nobody]

luxebo, on 01 January 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Since the next Champion is definitely a Heavy (We've had Spider replace Jenner, Blackjack replace Centurion, and Highlander replace Atlas) maybe the Champion would be a (God forbid) boomjag?

More likely an dual AC/10 since they have not gone for quite the meta builds but rather something similar
(or if they do give us the AC/40, I would expect it somewhat gimped compared to the true meta - like less or awkwardly allocated armor, or med-las backup or the like)

[TercieI]

Shar Wolf, on 02 January 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

More likely an dual AC/10 since they have not gone for quite the meta builds but rather something similar
(or if they do give us the AC/40, I would expect it somewhat gimped compared to the true meta - like less or awkwardly allocated armor, or med-las backup or the like)

Oh, they'll get one right, just by accident, one of these days.

[luxebo]

I was thinking maybe either a poptart cataphract or a fast 3d brawler. I don't really like dual ac10, not enough damage for the weight when the ac20 is only two tons more.

[Satan n stuff]

Damon Howe, on 01 January 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Ac40 mechs are almost always front-torso armor heavy.

Which means little back armor.

Which means you wait until they turn around and then you hit them in the back with a Ac40 cicada that was hiding nearby.

You're not serious are you? That's the worst possible build for that Cicada. An AC/40 Jager will outrun you, can take about three times as much damage and has three to four times as much ammo as your Cicada.

[Buckminster]

Damon Howe, on 01 January 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Ac40 mechs are almost always front-torso armor heavy.

Which means little back armor.

Which means you wait until they turn around and then you hit them in the back with a Ac40 cicada that was hiding nearby.

Always bringing it back to the AC40 Cicada...

***** n stuff, on 03 January 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

You're not serious are you? That's the worst possible build for that Cicada. An AC/40 Jager will outrun you, can take about three times as much damage and has three to four times as much ammo as your Cicada.

You've obviously not seen his posts or videos of it. The Boomcada is a known joke build, but some of us just like to play for the lulz.

Edited by Buckminster, 03 January 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Koniving]

Related vids. Because killing them is fun.

Approaching an AC/40 Jager that is hiding around a base is suicide, especially if they have a group of supporting mechs. Have them come to you instead.

Head to head battles against AC/40 Jagers are best achieved at point blank range while eliminating as much of their ability to focus as possible (rapid AC battering or flamers; anything that makes it hard to see and aim). Otherwise, it's better to engage them at long range.

If you must approach an AC/40 Jager that is in cover, use some stealth to your advantage. While he is busy shooting and squatting, creep up on the side opposite of his field of fire and take him out.