Lol, okay, going to the testing grounds it's clear I exaggerated the distance. But in terms of LBXs being able to do headshots at close range? Empirical evidence trumps theory. I also think you're overstating its ineffectiveness against lights. If you're in close range you'll land way more than 1 or 2 pellets. And sure an LBX is inferior to a medium laser when it comes to tonnage and slots, but we're talking ballistics.
On the whole, though, I totally agree with you that the LBX is not a great weapon. It's way too much tonnage to devote to such a limited weapon. At the range where it can actually do harm, you'd be better off using the tonnage for a rack of SSRMs and some medium lasers.


What Started As A Joke Shd Build....
Started by theta123, Jan 06 2014 10:34 AM
28 replies to this topic
#21
Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:14 PM
#22
Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:37 PM
Kubernetes, on 07 January 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:
Lol, okay, going to the testing grounds it's clear I exaggerated the distance. But in terms of LBXs being able to do headshots at close range? Empirical evidence trumps theory.
Dude, look at the video. You can see exactly the spread against targets. Even at point blank range of less than 50m, the spread pattern is larger than the head hitbox of every mech in the game. Even with your mech virtually touching the enemy, the LBX isn't going to land every pellet on the head hit box.
As you say, empirical evidence trumps theory. And the empirical evidence is right there. It's physically IMPOSSIBLE for the LBX to do signficant head damage.
Quote
I also think you're overstating its ineffectiveness against lights. If you're in close range you'll land way more than 1 or 2 pellets.
Again, it's just a matter of simple measurement.
You can see how big the spread pattern is. You can see how large a light mech's leg is. The spread pattern is much larger. Thus, you are physically limited to only getting one or two pellets onto a given section.
I have no vested interest in the LBX being bad. I wish it wasn't. But you can just observe its usage and see quite clearly that it's impossible for it to be useful against light mechs compared to other weapons of comparable tonnage. There's no opinion involved here. It's observable fact.
Quote
And sure an LBX is inferior to a medium laser when it comes to tonnage and slots, but we're talking ballistics.
But that's the thing... OTHER ballistics are infinitely better... And the chief reason why ballistics are useful, is because they put all their damage in one spot.
That's why the LBX, currently, is so bad.. because you are basically taking all of the downsides of ballistic weapons (high weight, large space consumption, ammo requirements) but throwing away the ONE chief benefit, which is precision point damage.
It's not like I WANT the LBX to be bad.. I really don't. I really, really, really want it to be good.
But the first step to making it good, is to recognize the clearly demonstrable fact that it is currently a bad weapon. From a purely objective, empirical position, it is bad.
It doesn't HAVE to be bad. It could easily be made better simply by increasing the damage per pellet slightly. That alone would make the LBX into a useful close range brawling weapon (a niche that desparately needs to be filled) while still making it inferior to other weapons, like the AC10, at range.
#23
Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:43 PM
Pyrrho, on 07 January 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:
Haven't they reduced the LBX cone of fire since August 6th, 2013? Serious question, I remember it being reduced, but I don't remember when!
I believe, although I may be mistaken, that the last time the LBX had its spread narrowed (it's happened multiple times since closed beta) was in May of last year.
#24
Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:47 PM
My Absolute Favorite Shadowhawk build is really close to what you posted
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...896c81d8ce0c5a2
Basically it switches the LB10-X out for an AC5 and upgrades the large to a ERPPC along with more ammo.
The AC5 and ERPPC pair really well range allowing you to put steady pressure on targets and up close and personal whether they be lights meds or even assaults you can simply go to full auto with the Ballistics and missiles and then cycle in the ERPPC when heat allows.
I've gone toe to toe point blank with highlanders and won simply due to it's speed, high intensity and jumpjets.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...896c81d8ce0c5a2
Basically it switches the LB10-X out for an AC5 and upgrades the large to a ERPPC along with more ammo.
The AC5 and ERPPC pair really well range allowing you to put steady pressure on targets and up close and personal whether they be lights meds or even assaults you can simply go to full auto with the Ballistics and missiles and then cycle in the ERPPC when heat allows.
I've gone toe to toe point blank with highlanders and won simply due to it's speed, high intensity and jumpjets.
#25
Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:21 AM
But everyone uses alpha builds...everyone...
Its what ruining the game as it is. Its no longer about brawlers vs long ranges
He who has more PPC/AC20 and jumpjets, wins
Its what ruining the game as it is. Its no longer about brawlers vs long ranges
He who has more PPC/AC20 and jumpjets, wins
#26
Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:48 AM
theta123, on 06 January 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:
SHD-2H
Ended up becoming my favorite Light-medium mech hunter....
I first ran this build with an AC10...But my scoring improved alot when i added a LB-10X and extra DHS The large laser is sufficient for not becomlng useless beyond 270meter. The LB10x and dual MG's do a miracle on those XL engine users...I squashed 2 spiders and a jenner in a single match, just by hitting them when mly AC10 would have missed. Against larger mechs, the LB10, MG's and LL is enough to cause sufficient destruction
Altough i do need to coordinate my assault with other light mechs. Wich is going fine TBH.
Dont underestimate the LB10...Its situational...But can be used to good use with those MG's as secondary weapons
Ended up becoming my favorite Light-medium mech hunter....
I first ran this build with an AC10...But my scoring improved alot when i added a LB-10X and extra DHS The large laser is sufficient for not becomlng useless beyond 270meter. The LB10x and dual MG's do a miracle on those XL engine users...I squashed 2 spiders and a jenner in a single match, just by hitting them when mly AC10 would have missed. Against larger mechs, the LB10, MG's and LL is enough to cause sufficient destruction
Altough i do need to coordinate my assault with other light mechs. Wich is going fine TBH.
Dont underestimate the LB10...Its situational...But can be used to good use with those MG's as secondary weapons
Lol, bump that up to an ER and I ran that for weeks! It's fun

#27
Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:04 AM
Roland, on 07 January 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:
Honestly dude, you are totally kidding yourself here. You aren't getting headshots on folks with LBX. Even if someone stripped ALL the armor off their head, they've still got 15 internal structure there. An LBX, in the best possible case, will hit their head with ONE pellet... and doing so is going to be complete luck since you can't actually aim with that level of precision. So, minimally, against a target with zero head armor, you're gonna need to hit their head 15 times... which means 15 lucky shots. Hell, even if they have something like ammo in their head, and you score a crit, a single pellet can't actually destroy it... so you can't even get lucky and kill them with an ammo explosion through their head.
For headshots, you use a mech with a high alpha strike, with weapons using the same travel time. The dual AC20 mech is a prime example. One shot will kill a mech if you hit their head, every single time, against any mech.
For headshots, you use a mech with a high alpha strike, with weapons using the same travel time. The dual AC20 mech is a prime example. One shot will kill a mech if you hit their head, every single time, against any mech.
Nope, never said I was the only one that hit the head with an lbx, nor did I say it happens all the time, but it is sweat when you do.
Listen, I like your math and it does highlight some of the ineffective ways people use the LBX....
200m video though? You are an {Dezgra} to use an lbx at that far unless you just want to scare puggers that have no idea what you are packing. I get in the same range with the lbx as a small laser....
Now you counter with "but you could bring a direct damage weapon". Yup, tried that and I don't know if it is latency, lag, or just me being bad with ballistics but I always seem to hit the dirt behind the mech. I can ace them with lasers in my Jester, but a direct fire AC/5/10/20 just don't do the job the same way. It might be that even if I'm not precise due to whatever that I still get some pellets on the mech, so that ends up as a gain for me.
Different strokes for different folks, with the SHD I end up using streaks and the lasers as much as the LBX anyway and end up having a good time and getting kills.
I do appreciate your analysis though and I hope that PGI will eventually get better at balancing some of these odder weapon systems.
#28
Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:49 AM
Quote
200m video though? You are an {Dezgra} to use an lbx at that far unless you just want to scare puggers that have no idea what you are packing. I get in the same range with the lbx as a small laser....
The video actually shows the spread of the weapon at every range.
the 200m point though was specifically cited to counter the suggestion that you could localize all of the LBX damage to a single panel at that range. Clearly, you can't, because the weapon spread is larger than the whole torso of a heavy mech at that range.
And honestly, 200m is close range in this game. It's SRM range... so I can just use SRM's at get better damage, for FAR less weight and space than an LBX10.
Quote
Now you counter with "but you could bring a direct damage weapon". Yup, tried that and I don't know if it is latency, lag, or just me being bad with ballistics but I always seem to hit the dirt behind the mech. I can ace them with lasers in my Jester, but a direct fire AC/5/10/20 just don't do the job the same way. It might be that even if I'm not precise due to whatever that I still get some pellets on the mech, so that ends up as a gain for me.
But this isn't really an argument for the weapon... because if the weapon is only useful for folks who can't hit the target, then it's not really a good weapon.
In such a case, you would be better served by improving your gunnery such that you can use the better weapons, or just using lasers which don't require lead time, and will also get some damage on the target.
That's the thing here.. if your only goal is "spray some damage around and hope some of it sticks to the target" then the LBX isn't even good for THAT. It's inferior to other weapons like SRM's and lasers.
As I've suggested many times, what should be done with the LBX is to increase its damage to about 1.4 per pellet. This would parallel the damage that the LBX10 had in Mechwarrior 4 (Which was 14).
With that change, at point blank you'd be doing gauss level damage.. So it'd be an awesome infighting weapon.
At long range, you'd only be getting some of the pellets on target, and spreading them around, but they'd be doing enough damage to make up for that spread. It would still be inferior to single shot weapons like the AC10 at medium and long range, but it wouldn't be the totally useless toy that it is currently at those ranges.
Thus, you'd actually have two useful 10-caliber weapons, each with a specific niche... The AC-10 for general utility, and the LBX for short range brawling.
#29
Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:59 AM
Eh, saw a lot more latency issues in MW4 when I played it and everyone using the LBX in larger formats to just facehug which tbh is kinda what I use the lbx 10 for.
SRMs I run into hit detection issues. I see them hit, my friends watching me see them hit, but the paperdoll accounts for nothing.
Lots of things to be fixed in the game still unfortunately.
Honestly I would rather the LBX be what it is on tabletop, a cannon that can shoot both pellets and solid shot. The normal ACs get better after specialty rounds are introduced later.
SRMs I run into hit detection issues. I see them hit, my friends watching me see them hit, but the paperdoll accounts for nothing.
Lots of things to be fixed in the game still unfortunately.
Honestly I would rather the LBX be what it is on tabletop, a cannon that can shoot both pellets and solid shot. The normal ACs get better after specialty rounds are introduced later.
4 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users