25 replies to this topic

[Sug]

Houseckat, on 10 January 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

Instead, what I propose is something akin to 'transmission lag'. Cause indirectly-fired LRMs, LRMS on mechs without direct Line Of Sight to target, to fire on the target's position from a few milliseconds ago, or otherwise have reduced accuracy.

They already have reduced accuracy as they lose the bonus from Artemis. Which is mandatory for LRM boats.

Houseckat, on 10 January 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

Under my proposal, Mech B could still designate Mech A, Mech C could still fire, but even at the stock hunchback's 64.8kph, Mech A has a chance of evading some of the missiles. Mech B could hit mech A with the NARC and them mech C's LRM's of great justice would be targeted with full accuracy. If Mech B were to also use TAG, the two bonuses together would be the same as NARC or TAG alone on a mech that is not behind cover.

You're imagining a problem where none exists. If that hunchback is behind a wall then it will not be taking damage from LRMS. I get that you got trolled by some coordinated LRM fire but that tactic really only works against pugs. If you've played from the beginning you must remember when LRMs were fire-and-forget missles and LRMageddon where LRMs dove down at your head at a 90^o angle making cover worthless.

LRMs are in a good place right now. If anything they need a speed buff so they can be used reliably at ranges passed 500m.

Houseckat, on 10 January 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

Those are my suggestions regarding missiles as they stand. The angry part of me wonders why four LRM5s seem so much more effective than a single LRM20 when the same number of the same missiles is being fired, and why my AMS only seems to drop, at most, two or three missiles from the clusters fired at me

A single AMS should completely negate an LRM5 most of the time.

I haven't done any testing but for awhile I've suspected that groups of LRMs, like SRMs, don't have their damage tracked correctly. Currently chainfiring three SRM6s is more effective than firing them all at once. The game just doesn't track the damage.

Lately I've noticed that the dual LRM15s on my Catpult seem to be doing almost no damage to my targets. I'm talking about 10+ salvos to the face barely getting through the armor, where chainfired LRM5's seem to reduce me to scrap in seconds.

Later I might play a match and fire a single salvo just to check the damage.

[Nihtgenga]

Sug, on 10 January 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

You're imagining a problem where none exists. If that hunchback is behind a wall then it will not be taking damage from LRMS. I get that you got trolled by some coordinated LRM fire but that tactic really only works against pugs. If you've played from the beginning you must remember when LRMs were fire-and-forget missles and LRMageddon where LRMs dove down at your head at a 90^o angle making cover worthless.

Depends on the wall. You can not take 100% perfect cover everytime and everywhere. Especially on the smaller maps, you can not evade such situations, if more than just one or two LRM-bearing mechs are in the enemy team; you might well be in range and consequently under fire from more than just one direction at the same time. The only LRM-safe place aside the caves on Frozen City and River Valley would be benath some rock - good luck fitting the Hunchie under one.

I agree, that the first LRMs were too strong in their homing abilities, but still now they can be put into good use, even in PUGs against premades, as long as the frontline pilots are not completely ******. The point is not that they should be made GENERALLY worse; but dedicated spotter gear must be made worth more to encourage players investing in that role and tactical playstyle by their mech build. Otherwise, TAG and even BAP will finally be just line-fillers in mech bay, like NARC already is. At the moment, dedicated role differentiation is not really rewarded if not exclusively playing with the same premades, following always the same tactical pattern.
Even then, the best CW "feature" of MWO still is that it does not prevent you from using a separate voicechat program in parallel, which I consider not just a pity, but nearly ironic, keeping the MWO claim "thinking mans shooter" in mind...

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well it would make it so the "Spotter" is actually spotting. Hitting a single key is not really asking to much.

Mhm, no issues with hitting a key. It's a bit of potato potato here.

My point is that it is the firers responsibility to select his target, not the spotters. If the spotter finds three targets I can take my choice of the three as an LRM boat, I am not confined to the one he selects.

Yes, if he selects a target he is more likely to keep it in vision and the principle of focus fire applies, I get that.

But I don't think its right to make it the responsibility of the spotter. It's your ammo, your KDR, your accuracy ratio, take the responsibility and select the best target for yourself (99% of the time it will be the same )

The spotter gets his reward from spotter XP regardless of which target the firer selects and so he should. But the firer needs to have some ownership too.

[Sug]

Nihtgenga, on 11 January 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

The only LRM-safe place aside the caves on Frozen City and River Valley would be benath some rock - good luck fitting the Hunchie under one.

Could not disagree with you more. Those maps are like 80% cover. If you are behind something that is taller than your mech you are safe from most LRMs. If your cover is taller than just over your mech's head you are safe from 100% of LRMs.

Ok, to be clear, you would be safe from LRMs fired directly from the side opposite of your cover. If an LRM boat is adjusting his position you have to adjust yours to be safe. If your opponent is shifting his position to counter your cover and you just sit there, that's on you. That is how it is. It's fine. It's not like anyone sitting at the spawn point the entire match killing people across the map with LRMs or anything.

Also on River City getting under the bridges or the platform will essentially make you immune to LRMs and a Hunchie will definitely fit there : /

Nihtgenga, on 11 January 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

The point is not that they should be made GENERALLY worse; but dedicated spotter gear must be made worth more to encourage players investing in that role and tactical playstyle by their mech build. Otherwise, TAG and even BAP will finally be just line-fillers in mech bay, like NARC already is. At the moment, dedicated role differentiation is not really rewarded if not exclusively playing with the same premades, following always the same tactical pattern.

I don't get what you're going for. There really aren't scouts in this game. There's no reason to force people to act like scouts. There's no need for someone to spot when they can pop a UAV and run. A spotter is going to get like 6 secs of TAG off before he's spotting and chased off.

BAP and TAG are not really spotting gear in this game, NARC is, but it sucks because of the break on damage mechanic. BAP and TAG are almost requirements for LRM boats because they give bonuses that help a boat in a direct fire situation. Faster lock, tighter pattern, etc. They're great for pug LRM boats that are forced to find their own targets 90% of the time.

[Sephlock]

How about implementing the alternate Narc ammo? I'd like a Haywire pod, a shoot and sit pod... etc.

[Nihtgenga]

Sug, on 11 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Could not disagree with you more. Those maps are like 80% cover. If you are behind something that is taller than your mech you are safe from most LRMs. If your cover is taller than just over your mech's head you are safe from 100% of LRMs.

Ok, to be clear, you would be safe from LRMs fired directly from the side opposite of your cover. If an LRM boat is adjusting his position you have to adjust yours to be safe. If your opponent is shifting his position to counter your cover and you just sit there, that's on you. That is how it is. It's fine. It's not like anyone sitting at the spawn point the entire match killing people across the map with LRMs or anything.

Also on River City getting under the bridges or the platform will essentially make you immune to LRMs and a Hunchie will definitely fit there : /

You just confine your thinking to a one-on-one situation, which is not the case in MWO usually. There might be more than just one lone LRM-carrying mech around. If they do not flock together in the same spot, they may have different aspect angles on you, so it is not that easy to hide. Also the platform in river city does not totally protect against LRMs fired from <500m distance and the LRM-carrier being on the same height level with you. There is an envelope where the LRM trajectory is flat enough to get them underneath.

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I don't get what you're going for. There really aren't scouts in this game. There's no reason to force people to act like scouts.

Exactly THAT is my point (and the one of the threadstarter) - there SHOULD be viable scouting in the game.