29 replies to this topic

[Turist0AT]

xhrit, on 12 January 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Dropping with no ECM is like going into a dungeon with no healer.

haha XD

Edited by Turist0AT, 13 January 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[DarkMetalBlade]

xhrit, on 12 January 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Dropping with no ECM is like going into a dungeon with no healer.

Isn't that the truth?

I already have a DDC in my Mechlab, & anytime that I see my team without ECM, I immediately think to myself, "I should've brought my DDC..."

Speaking of which, I'm considering buying another one & loading it out in a different way.

Edited by DarkMetalBlade, 13 January 2014 - 10:40 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Rebas Kradd, on 11 January 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

Pretty sure a cloaking device makes something invisible to the naked eye, so I don't think your analogy works.

No, what I described is pretty dead-on. See, in the game, ECM is supposed to make it HARDER to for missile guys to target and hit bad guys, including those bearing ECM, NOT IMPOSSIBLE. Cloaking device.

Kubernetes, on 12 January 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

You can always dead-fire LRMS. I'm not much of an LRM guy, but I've been using them on my Orion VA. You may not be able to target a DDC Atlas, but they're so slow you can easily dead-fire on them within reasonable ranges. Either that or aim at their left torso with your direct fire weapons.

I've done some DFM work, myself, and am getting better at it. Sometimes, I even fire my LRMs at range when I can't target a bad guy, just to scare them off, make them back up and become ineffective for a few critical seconds, which allows my team to get in accord and improve their own positions.

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I don't get the whining about ECM. No, you can't just sit in a defile and destroy the entire team from range without exposing yourself. Get over it.

It's NOT whining... it's helping your team mate to help you win, man. Are you allergic to helping your team win?

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The most annoying thing is when an LRM guy sits 900 m behind the line and then whines that no one is holding locks. It's hard to hold locks even when the enemy isn't using ECM, because most fights involve popping out of cover once every few seconds to take a shot. Guys who stand out in the open to get targeted usually die in the first two minutes.

Oh, well, that answers the question... you're not a team player, so you're whining about your team mates asking for help... individual.

[Roland]

Honestly, ECM's strength doesn't stem from simply its ability to prevent LRM locks, although that certainly makes it extremely useful.

ECM's biggest strength comes from the fact that it makes it hard to target mechs, and thus coordinate fire.

If there is an ECM mech standing amongst a group of enemies, then your team can be viewing all of the enemy mechs while not actually being able to get a target lock.. which means that target calling has to resort to simply calling the name of a chassis. And if there are multiple chassis, then you have to say something like, "Target the atlas on the left, by that rock." or some kind of nonsense like that.

I think that this aspect of ECM is worse than the LRM affects... because, frankly, the whole LRM system is kind of trash at this point. LRM's in MW4 were far more skill based than LRM's in MWO, and were much easier to balance. The LRM system in MWO leaves you with weapons which will swing wildly between extremely strong and almost useless, depending on the opponent, and the shooter has limited options to change it (especially in a PUG).

But ECM's ability to block not only missile locks, but all targeting, on a mech which is only a few hundred meters away? That's definitely a much larger impact on the game than LRM lock disruption... because it hampers team coordination.

For instance, take two lances, neither with any LRM's.. say they're long range sniper builds. One has an ECM mech standing near them and the other doesn't.

The one with the ECM bubble is going to win a snipe war, because they can see the damage on the enemies and focus on damaged locations, while the guys without ECM are effectively firing blind. All they will know is that they are landing shots.

ECM's not an auto-win button, but it's still clearly one of the most powerful pieces of equipment in the game. No one brings an ECM capable mech and doesn't mount ECM on it, ever... and generally, when a variant of a chassis has the ability to carry ECM, that variant is by far the best variant.

[FupDup]

Lord help us all if we ever got a Highlander, Victor, or Cataphract variant with ECM.

[Roland]

Currently, some those mechs overcome their lack of ECM by having very good hardpoints... but as you say, if they got ECM too? Instantly dominating mechs then.

If you look back through when you had a mech with the best hardpoints AND the ECM? The Raven 3L when streaks were crazy strong? That mech was really the ONLY light mech fielded. I mean, sure, I ran other lights too for fun, but I was always basically handicapping myself compared to driving the 3L which was basically just EZ mode.

If you put ECM on a highlander? That'd be the only assault mech you ever saw again.

[Bagheera]

FupDup, on 13 January 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Lord help us all if we ever got a Highlander, Victor, or Cataphract variant with ECM.

Dunno about those three, but here's a potential Mini-lander with ECM, somewhere between 3055-3058, iirc:

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• TDR-7SE The 7SE takes the upgrade of the Thunderbolt even further. The structure has been redesigned to use an Endo Steel structure. The 'Mech also uses Ferro-Fibrous armor and double heat sinks to further save weight. The saved weight has been used to focus the role of the 7SE into a long range 'Mech. The 'Mechs maneuverability has been enhanced with a jumping distance of one hundred and twenty meters. TheThunderbolts weapons have been completely overhauled. The primary weapon is a Gauss Rifle. This is backed up by three Medium Pulse Lasers in the torso with a fourth mounted on the left arm and, finally, the 7SE carries a Guardian ECM Suite to protect against advanced enemy electronics. BV (1.0) = 1,737, BV (2.0) = 1,809

Edited by Bagheera, 13 January 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Kay Wolf, on 13 January 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

It's NOT whining... it's helping your team mate to help you win, man. Are you allergic to helping your team win?

Okay, how does complaining about ECM help your team win? I'm really interested to hear this.

ECM is a reality in this game. You can either learn to play around it, or sit in a defile 900m away and complain that teammates aren't holding locks.

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Oh, well, that answers the question... you're not a team player, so you're whining about your team mates asking for help... individual.

Believe me, I target everything I see when I see it. The problem is that most firefights do not give you the luxury of standing in the open for 15 seconds so you can target enemies for your LRM carriers. Why do you think poptarting is so popular? Because outside of ECM and range bonuses, if you can see them, they can see you, and if they can see you there's a good chance they can shoot you. What I dislike is the whining by LRM guys that teammates aren't holding locks--as if it's our duty to stand up and get cored so you can land a few missiles. If you're playing with a premade with a dedicated spotter that's one thing, but if you're equipping LRMs in a pug match, you should accept that there are games where you will be rendered largely ineffective.

[Threat Doc]

Kubernetes, on 13 January 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

Okay, how does complaining about ECM help your team win? I'm really interested to hear this.

ECM is a reality in this game. You can either learn to play around it, or sit in a defile 900m away and complain that teammates aren't holding locks at the beginning of a match, and then we're too busy to say anything about holding locks. Mainly, we just sit back and let your non-communicating, unhelpful butts die. We are a part of the team, we are going to be there. YOU get used to that.

What I dislike is the whining by LRM guys that teammates aren't holding locks--as if it's our duty to stand up and get cored so you can land a few missiles.

Addressing the whining; I don't recall, in over 700 games, now, one LRM boat driver whining over anything. As a matter of fact, most of us ask, nicely, that someone try to grab and hold locks.

Second, the ECM in this game is a cloaking device, period, it doesn't just lend penalties, it takes away the ability of one branch of players in this game to be able to get in LRMs and SRMs, and that's OP.

I've had enough of you... you go play an LRM boat for a while, to complete proficiency -as it's VERY distinctly obvious you've never done so- and then you can talk to me, scrub. I'm done, here.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 14 January 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Kay Wolf, on 14 January 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Addressing the whining; I don't recall, in over 700 games, now, one LRM boat driver whining over anything. As a matter of fact, most of us ask, nicely, that someone try to grab and hold locks.

Then why are you responding to me if you've not experienced it? Just trying to pick a fight with me? I haven't talked about your in-game behavior at all (I don't know you), so why are you so defensive?

So you haven't seen it--great. I, on the other hand, have seen plenty of games where someone starts cussing out the team as '{Surat}' because we're not holding targets, while remaining completely ignorant of what the fighting looks like at the front.

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Second, the ECM in this game is a cloaking device, period, it doesn't just lend penalties, it takes away the ability of one branch of players in this game to be able to get in LRMs and SRMs, and that's OP.

First off, ECM doesn't affect SRMs at all, just LRMs and Streaks.

Second, there are workarounds. I mentioned dead-firing. There's BAP to help with Streaks, and TAG works for both.

Third, you could use an ECM mech yourself (limited options) or ask your ECM teammates to counter enemy ECM.

Fourth, you could equip secondary armament so you're not completely useless when the enemy team drops with 5 DDCs.

Or, you could just attack me and whine because you refuse to get a direct sight-line on enemies during a match.

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I've had enough of you... you go play an LRM boat for a while, to complete proficiency -as it's VERY distinctly obvious you've never done so- and then you can talk to me, scrub. I'm done, here.

Wait, you're the one who's telling me that you're just learning to dead-fire (after I mentioned it), and now you're lecturing me to learn to play a missile boat? Seriously? I've run LRMs on my various Stalker, Highlanders, and Orions, all of which are mastered, which is why I carry Tag when I can, sometimes a UAV, and I always equip the Target Decay module when running LRMs. Are you doing the same, or do you just sit in a ravine 900m away and complain because the game isn't the way you want it?