28 replies to this topic

[Runs With Scissors]

1.  AC's: make ac's like BT lore and do burst fire ( I know its been mentioned b4), this will eliminate pinpoint damage that ppl have been complaining about forever. different models of each ac would make things more interesting too.  also let the lbx fire different ammo types, not solid shot but say instead of ten 1 damage pellets u can fire twenty .5 damage ones, or five 2 damage ones. give players the option of birdshot for the light mechs but 4/0 buckshot for heavies.

2. PPC's: eliminate the cool down  for the ppc and put in a 4 sec charge on it, have no duration on how long its charged and also allow players to fire b4 fully charged but at reduced damage.   holding the charge means the heat wont dissipate. example. if firing a ppc in the game now would raise heat to 15% on ur mech then charging the ppc would build heat up to 15% and keep it there until u fired.
BONUS: rapid fire weak shots can knock back ecm on mechs better than ppcs do now

3. Gauss:  the gauss was intended for long range sniping, which is y they put the charge in. unfortunately it also made the gauss unusable. its heavy, it explodes, (really easily) and now with the charge (that only holds for a short time) its a huge pain to use.

But I have an idea. rather than apply a nerf to the weapon, apply it to the mech its loaded on. For example: a gauss mounted on an arm makes the arm move 50% slower.  at sniper distance that wouldn't matter much if at all, but at short ranges it would make pegging a light and/or medium mechs a pain (unless they just stand there, or move directly away from u in which case they die) gauss mounted on the torso would recive a lesser penalty

thoughts?

Edited by Runs With Scissors, 08 January 2014 - 11:46 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Watching MWO fans keep coming up with ideas to fix this game makes me both happy and sad at the same time.

[Vox Scorpus]

Classic Battletech rules did not split up damage or have a burst fire for the autocannons. Some missle fire was broken down into groups and then a damage location was rolled for each group. If an AC20 hit you in the CT you took off (or filled in the little circles) 20 points to the CT.

I agree with Runs with Scissors that the Gauss should have been left alone. It was an excellent sniper weapon that could be used effectively close up also. Put it back the way it was!

A big problem I see is comparing Lasers vs AC and people complaining that AC10/20 do to much damage to one spot even though they must be aimed and have limited ammo.
The problem seems to not be the guns but the fact that lasers were screwed with in the first place. Where did this laser duration of being "on" for a while come from? A laser is a beam of light. That means it moves fast and all the energy is in that fast shot. It should be a quick zap and then a cooldown time or recharge (whatever you want to call it). That way all the damage from the laser hits one location. Yes that means you now need to aim better - no more "spraying" the laser hoping for a point or 2 of damage.

I realize that MWO and TT are not the same thing - that being said why reinvent the wheel?

[Joseph Mallan]

1) Nope many AC20s are huge bore weapons (6-8 inch) that vomit a round every 6-10 seconds. That is perfect for a BFG.

2) The charge mechanic is a good explanation for the PPCs minimum range, but the rest I don't think I can get behind.

3) Putting a charge on a Sniper's weapon is stupid as can be. A Sniper's weapon needs to fire exactly when the trigger is pulled to increase the accuracy of the shot. Charging was put on the WRONG weapon... IF Gauss is a Sniper's weapon as everyone keeps saying.

[Varent]

1) there is nothing wrong with AC.
2) there is nothing wrong with PPC.
3) Gause... was nerfed BECAUSE OF THE PREVALANCE OF JUMP SNIPING.

(HINT HINT)

I wonder whats wrong with mwo.... >.>

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The main problem is the netcode. Fix that and we could get more consistent problems that might then be able to be fixed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 09 January 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

I wonder whats wrong with mwo.... >.>

Whiny players that are afraid for their toon to die?

[Runs With Scissors]

burst fire AC may not be exactly the same as TT rules but they do follow BT lore. Bear in mind according to TT rules weapons only fire every 10 seconds which is not the case in MWO. also by "breaking" the cast iron rule that an ac2 or 20 HAS to do that much damage, nevermind how often it can fire, it will make them easier to tweak later on for balance.

the change I suggested to gauss should (hopefully) make it less of a poptart weapon as well. there isn't a lot of time to aim in a jump, if the gauss traverses too slow it will be hard to hit a target (again, hopefully)

in any case ur not going to eliminate poptarting by nerfing weapons that are good at it, u can poptart with lasers and lrms. (if u have the target decay module) to really counter it u need a weapon like a mechmortar that can bomb their little hidey-hole to flush them out, or at least make them move around and throw off "bracketing" a section.

[Roland]

Quote

1. AC's: make ac's like BT lore and do burst fire ( I know its been mentioned b4), this will eliminate pinpoint damage that ppl have been complaining about forever

Why would I use AC's then, instead of lasers?

[Varent]

Runs With Scissors, on 09 January 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

burst fire AC may not be exactly the same as TT rules but they do follow BT lore. Bear in mind according to TT rules weapons only fire every 10 seconds which is not the case in MWO. also by "breaking" the cast iron rule that an ac2 or 20 HAS to do that much damage, nevermind how often it can fire, it will make them easier to tweak later on for balance.

the change I suggested to gauss should (hopefully) make it less of a poptart weapon as well. there isn't a lot of time to aim in a jump, if the gauss traverses too slow it will be hard to hit a target (again, hopefully)

in any case ur not going to eliminate poptarting by nerfing weapons that are good at it, u can poptart with lasers and lrms. (if u have the target decay module) to really counter it u need a weapon like a mechmortar that can bomb their little hidey-hole to flush them out, or at least make them move around and throw off "bracketing" a section.

If you actually follow true battletech lore and how a few ac were described via alot of the books. They were often described with no cool down and only heat effecting them as well. Lore is a horrible thing to base a weapon off of. Especially since its alot more 'descriptively appealing' to describe raining death on someone then to describe a solid slug chunking them.

That said there is already artillery and airstrikes that are used currently to knock people out of said hidey holes. Just depends on if your willing to invest the money in them.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Why not put a recoil on the AC's? The mechanic is there already with the JJ shake

[Varent]

Scrawny Cowboy, on 09 January 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Why not put a recoil on the AC's? The mechanic is there already with the JJ shake

Because it wouldnt stop jump sniping. Jump sniping is based around the concept of one shot to fire then release the jump jets to fall back to cover. If you give recoil your actually HELPING them by moving there mech in a direction to better help them torso twist and protect the AC.

[General Taskeen]

Varent, on 09 January 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

1) there is nothing wrong with AC.
2) there is nothing wrong with PPC.
3) Gause... was nerfed BECAUSE OF THE PREVALANCE OF JUMP SNIPING.

(HINT HINT)

I wonder whats wrong with mwo.... >.>

Varent you always post the same thing.

NO PROBLEM HERE, MOVE ALONG.

Could you pull the wool a bit further over your eyes?

The game has 'CORE' issues and until addressed will continue to be discussed and be a problem.

TT Damage in Mech Warrior game. Problem 1.
Close to TT Armor in a Mech Warrior game. Problem 2.

In TT, you roll for a 20 damage shot, alright? Boom chance of a Mech being "DED" quick. Roll for an SRM6, boom 6 damage, maybe a crit. Fair? Sure you ROLL some dice.

Now you put that in a real-time game and suddenly "there is no problem," even though there is pin-point aim? Yeah, of course there will be problems, just like there are now.

[Khobai]

Quote

Classic Battletech rules did not split up damage or have a burst fire for the autocannons. Some missle fire was broken down into groups and then a damage location was rolled for each group. If an AC20 hit you in the CT you took off (or filled in the little circles) 20 points to the CT.

Thats not entirely correct. Classic Battletech had random hit locations. So the chance of hitting a mech in the center torso twice in a row with the same weapon was actually only 1 in 25. In other words damage spread out pretty good over subsequent attacks.

[Varent]

General Taskeen, on 09 January 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Varent you always post the same thing.

NO PROBLEM HERE, MOVE ALONG.

Could you pull the wool a bit further over your eyes?

The game has 'CORE' issues and until addressed will continue to be discussed and be a problem.

TT Damage in Mech Warrior game. Problem 1.
Close to TT Armor in a Mech Warrior game. Problem 2.

In TT, you roll for a 20 damage shot, alright? Boom chance of a Mech being "DED" quick. Roll for an SRM6, boom 6 damage, maybe a crit. Fair? Sure you ROLL some dice.

Now you put that in a real-time game and suddenly "there is no problem," even though there is pin-point aim? Yeah, of course there will be problems, just like there are now.

This is not a Table Top Game.

And did I say there was nothing wrong with MWO? Actually I think ive shown there is quite abit wrong with MWO but I have tried to direct the attention to it while quite a few (for god knows what reason) want to ignore it.

Run an alpha high FLD using mech against someone that understands this game without using jump jets. If you are of the same weight class and have quick firing weapons that are relatively heat efficient, you will lose to that mech. FLD is not everything people think it is.

[Runs With Scissors]

Varent, on 09 January 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

If you actually follow true battletech lore and how a few ac were described via alot of the books. They were often described with no cool down and only heat effecting them as well. Lore is a horrible thing to base a weapon off of. Especially since its alot more 'descriptively appealing' to describe raining death on someone then to describe a solid slug chunking them.

That said there is already artillery and airstrikes that are used currently to knock people out of said hidey holes. Just depends on if your willing to invest the money in them

im not suggesting slaving MWO to what goes in lore, I agree theres a lot in books that simply cant be replicated in-game. but what MWO is doing right now is slaving AC's to TT stats for damage, but not fire rate, which is messing up balancing these against each other, let alone other weapons.  but MWO is neither a TT game or a novel, it can incorporate aspects of both but it cant be locked to either or there will never be a balanced game, just the merry-go-round of nerfs we've been getting

[Rebas Kradd]

General Taskeen, on 09 January 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Varent you always post the same thing.

NO PROBLEM HERE, MOVE ALONG.

Could you pull the wool a bit further over your eyes?

The game has 'CORE' issues and until addressed will continue to be discussed and be a problem.

TT Damage in Mech Warrior game. Problem 1.
Close to TT Armor in a Mech Warrior game. Problem 2.

In TT, you roll for a 20 damage shot, alright? Boom chance of a Mech being "DED" quick. Roll for an SRM6, boom 6 damage, maybe a crit. Fair? Sure you ROLL some dice.

Now you put that in a real-time game and suddenly "there is no problem," even though there is pin-point aim? Yeah, of course there will be problems, just like there are now.

I thought people were mad because we got AWAY from TT values.

[Sandpit]

Rebas Kradd, on 09 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

I thought people were mad because we got AWAY from TT values.

Some are
Some wish there were no TT values

Some understand that this is based on an IP that became a TT game and that this game is based on the IP with a core understanding that the TT rules are a starting point and design idea that sometimes have to be changed due to the TT being a turn based game as opposed to an FPS

Want to know why everyone "loves" MW2 and such? Because we didn't have large communities of different types of gamers. If MW2 was released today with the same mechanics but upgraded performance and graphics, there would be people wailing and flailing about it as well.

Same with most of those games of yesteryear.

[Varent]

Rebas Kradd, on 09 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

I thought people were mad because we got AWAY from TT values.

ive lost track of what people are getting mad about honestly.

I just want a balanced shooter with a rough MW feel.

[Runs With Scissors]

Varent, on 09 January 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

ive lost track of what people are getting mad about honestly.

I just want a balanced shooter with a rough MW feel.

totally with you on this