13 replies to this topic

[Necromantion]

Ok so, here goes nothing.

A bit of a background on things, been gaming for a decade and a half. I'd like to consider myself somewhat intelligent and observant though it doesn't take much to notice the issues I'm about to bring up.

My setup:
Desktop:
560ti 2gig
i7 P2700k
8 gigs of 1600mhz ram

Laptop:
770m 1.5gig
i7 4800MQ
8 gigs of 1600mhz ram

My typical latency in-game is between 50-90.

A few constantly reoccurring contexts I've ran into:

1) Yesterday, ping was fine, targets ping was about 120. Enemy in a spider (blegh) overheats in front of me in an ac40 Jager, i shoot them point blank as they start-up again. Game shows hit graphic, target cross-hairs go red... no damage to their body, no flashing components and they run off just as a little spider does.

This same thing happens with other ballistics or even SRMs (shooting 3-4 SRM 6's with artemis into a weight classes back and it only goes slightly yellow if at all)

2) Various experiences with SRMs, LRMs and ballistics where one side of my 'mech is getting shot up badly, lets say my right torso. So, I torso-twist right to expose my left torso/arm and back to shield my exposed right side, all enemies that have line of sight on me are now at my 7 to 10 o-clock. After a few moments I'm hit by LRMs from the left side, or SRMs or a ballistic and somehow my right torso magically gets hit through my left arm/shoulder and blows up thus killing me or neutering me. You can hear the missiles/ballistics hitting your left side and suddenly your orange or even at times yellow internal torso just bursts into a cloud of confetti.

Anyone else experienced this?

P.S. Spider hitbox is still borked as all hell, do you devs play this game enough to see this? Its not just a recent patch thing, its been going on for multiple patches now. It is THE only mech i struggle to kill with any weapon and considering i have a 70%+ accuracy with nearly all weapons I think I'm an ok shot?

/endrant

[Mofwangana Bogogono]

Necromantion, on 13 January 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Ok so, here goes nothing.

A bit of a background on things, been gaming for a decade and a half. I'd like to consider myself somewhat intelligent and observant though it doesn't take much to notice the issues I'm about to bring up.

My setup:
Desktop:
560ti 2gig
i7 P2700k
8 gigs of 1600mhz ram

Laptop:
770m 1.5gig
i7 4800MQ
8 gigs of 1600mhz ram

My typical latency in-game is between 50-90.

A few constantly reoccurring contexts I've ran into:

1) Yesterday, ping was fine, targets ping was about 120. Enemy in a spider (blegh) overheats in front of me in an ac40 Jager, i shoot them point blank as they start-up again. Game shows hit graphic, target cross-hairs go red... no damage to their body, no flashing components and they run off just as a little spider does.

This same thing happens with other ballistics or even SRMs (shooting 3-4 SRM 6's with artemis into a weight classes back and it only goes slightly yellow if at all)

2) Various experiences with SRMs, LRMs and ballistics where one side of my 'mech is getting shot up badly, lets say my right torso. So, I torso-twist right to expose my left torso/arm and back to shield my exposed right side, all enemies that have line of sight on me are now at my 7 to 10 o-clock. After a few moments I'm hit by LRMs from the left side, or SRMs or a ballistic and somehow my right torso magically gets hit through my left arm/shoulder and blows up thus killing me or neutering me. You can hear the missiles/ballistics hitting your left side and suddenly your orange or even at times yellow internal torso just bursts into a cloud of confetti.

Anyone else experienced this?

P.S. Spider hitbox is still borked as all hell, do you devs play this game enough to see this? Its not just a recent patch thing, its been going on for multiple patches now. It is THE only mech i struggle to kill with any weapon and considering i have a 70%+ accuracy with nearly all weapons I think I'm an ok shot?

/endrant

What he said. I'm just glad I'm not the only one.

[Noesis]

support@mwomercs.com for bug reports. Though known issues with HSR and HD.

[Clit Beastwood]

Practice more, and understand that jagers have a really hard time converging on spiders (or anything small and fast). Run a cat k2 and observe the instant lack of hit issues with spiders. It just weapon spacing, there are many many many many many many preexisting threads on this already, do some searching and read up. If you want to kill spiders, take a jager S with 4ml and 2lbs, laser the legs until the armors off, then lbx the legs. Not hard - you're going to hit most reliably at ~120m. If you're still having issues, aim at the ground right where it's standing so your weapons converge, then lift and shoot.

[Necromantion]

Fierostetz, on 13 January 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Practice more, and understand that jagers have a really hard time converging on spiders (or anything small and fast). Run a cat k2 and observe the instant lack of hit issues with spiders. It just weapon spacing, there are many many many many many many preexisting threads on this already, do some searching and read up. If you want to kill spiders, take a jager S with 4ml and 2lbs, laser the legs until the armors off, then lbx the legs. Not hard - you're going to hit most reliably at ~120m. If you're still having issues, aim at the ground right where it's standing so your weapons converge, then lift and shoot.

Practice more? Oh god lol

Look, the spider was easily over 100m away and overheated standing still, i took my time to aim to let my weapons converge properly then fired. I have no issues hitting lights with all ballistics, the issue is hitting them and no damage being registered.

Im well aware of stripping leg armor off lights and even centurions and some other mediums at times like cicaidas with lasers. Im not new to the game.

I apologize omniscient one for the repost sorry I don't religiously read the forums.

[Zolaz]

Necromantion, on 13 January 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

P.S. Spider hitbox is still borked as all hell, do you devs play this game enough to see this? Its not just a recent patch thing, its been going on for multiple patches now. It is THE only mech i struggle to kill with any weapon and considering i have a 70%+ accuracy with nearly all weapons I think I'm an ok shot?

Nope, the devs dont play this game. You might see one every thousand or so games you play. PGI says a lot of things that they dont do. CW, UI 2.0, hit detection fix, weapon balancing, whatever the devs are saying today is all BS. PGI just wants your money and is willing to do the absolute minimum to get it.

Vote with your wallet. That seems to be the only thing PGI understands.

[Clit Beastwood]

Necromantion, on 13 January 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

Practice more? Oh god lol

Look, the spider was easily over 100m away and overheated standing still, i took my time to aim to let my weapons converge properly then fired. I have no issues hitting lights with all ballistics, the issue is hitting them and no damage being registered.

Im well aware of stripping leg armor off lights and even centurions and some other mediums at times like cicaidas with lasers. Im not new to the game.

I apologize omniscient one for the repost sorry I don't religiously read the forums.

At the current time, the spider's hitbox is bigger than the mech is (by roughly 10%) and some people still can't hit them - I don't know what to recommend beyond "practice" - there are tons of tips in the older threads, but the one constant was that Jagers have an especially hard time hitting them due to the speed of convergence and the widespread arms. And you don't need to religiously read the forums, just click "search" and type the subject you want to read up on - you'll find your answers much more quickly that way.

[Necromantion]

Fierostetz, on 13 January 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

At the current time, the spider's hitbox is bigger than the mech is (by roughly 10%) and some people still can't hit them - I don't know what to recommend beyond "practice" - there are tons of tips in the older threads, but the one constant was that Jagers have an especially hard time hitting them due to the speed of convergence and the widespread arms. And you don't need to religiously read the forums, just click "search" and type the subject you want to read up on - you'll find your answers much more quickly that way.

Its the fact that each component on their hitbox is so small that makes it a problem, when you try to shoot one area unless youre shooting weapons that have the same speed you wont ever hit the same component if they are moving unless they are running directly at you or away from you.

Anyways this post was to primarily highlight hit registry errors, not solely the spiders hitbox. The issue i ran into had nothing to do with the jagers arm convergence it had to do with the hit detection.

[Mekwarrior]

Lol I hate it when someone fires at you, you don't hear the sound of a hit and you think they missed, then a second later it calculates and decides there was damage after all.

[War Beast]

Or even better when you CLEARLY see the miss, clearly see it hit something else, thats NOT you ...

Then 2-3 seconds later you are nearly cored from the the shot that never hit you.

Sure they adjusted HSR so that the guy who thought he should have hit gets to hit now...

But what about the guy who smartly manuevered to dodge and was rewarded with not being hit ... that guy is getting screwed.

They make these changes to help one set of players, but the other half of the equation gets the shaft for it. Its honestly better off without HSR. At least this version of HSR, which is so counter intuitive its silly.

[Ghogiel]

War Beast, on 14 January 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

They make these changes to help one set of players, but the other half of the equation gets the shaft for it. Its honestly better off without HSR. At least this version of HSR, which is so counter intuitive its silly.

If you are one of these people who is thinking high ping is an advantage in either system you are very mistaken. Higher ping is a disadvantage in both.

HSR penalizes people with high ping only a little. Every action sent to and received from the server is delayed a little bit. So even actions made by people with 50ms ping is getting close to half a sec behind, let alone actions players with a similar ping to them are making.

No host state rewind penalizes people with high ping even worse, the higher the ping the further the hitbox ghost is from the render geometry meaning they have to lead shots further than people with low ping. We actually had that and it was ********.

[War Beast]

But it was probably better. Because the HSR as it stands now doesnt do what it claims it should. Its buggy as hell. Unintuitive. An unpleasantly large amount of the time:
- You dont hit when you should.
- You dont do damage when you hit.
- You get hit when you shouldnt.
- You take damage seconds after you should have IF you should have, leading to horrible situational awareness. Turning into an enemy to attack when you're already cored and dont know it because the damage hasnt shown up yet. Getting hit, being cored and barely alive and not even know it because based on what you just played the last minute nothing shot at you and you werent hit at all. So you rush into a situation or attack thinking you have some armor when you DONT, because you had no reason to think you took any damage.

Its frustrating as hell.

So no I dont think what we have now works any better than what you describe above. Its as much or worse of a pile of {Scrap}.

[Ghogiel]

War Beast, on 14 January 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

But it was probably better. Because the HSR as it stands now doesnt do what it claims it should. Its buggy as hell. Unintuitive. An unpleasantly large amount of the time:
- You dont hit when you should.
- You dont do damage when you hit.
- You get hit when you shouldnt.
- You take damage seconds after you should have IF you should have, leading to horrible situational awareness. Turning into an enemy to attack when you're already cored and dont know it because the damage hasnt shown up yet. Getting hit, being cored and barely alive and not even know it because based on what you just played the last minute nothing shot at you and you werent hit at all. So you rush into a situation or attack thinking you have some armor when you DONT, because you had no reason to think you took any damage.

Its frustrating as hell.

So no I dont think what we have now works any better than what you describe above. Its as much or worse of a pile of {Scrap}.

Your entire list of things you don't like was ten times worse with no HSR, you really have no idea how far you had to lead, and it's not as simple as just leading, you had to guess where a light mech janked half a second before it janked and fire at some random spot that the mech visually never went even after you hit it.

- You dont can't hit when you should due to lag shield
- You dont do damage when you hit because you have to shoot ghosts
- You get hit when you shouldnt because where the players are visually on your screen isn't where they are on the servers sim
- You take damage seconds after you should have IF you should have because server updates are still subject to ping delays even without HSR

Lights would again rule the innershere. Noob jenner pilots would instantly be as competitive as 733C.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 January 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[Mawai]

War Beast, on 14 January 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

Or even better when you CLEARLY see the miss, clearly see it hit something else, thats NOT you ...

Then 2-3 seconds later you are nearly cored from the the shot that never hit you.

Sure they adjusted HSR so that the guy who thought he should have hit gets to hit now...

But what about the guy who smartly manuevered to dodge and was rewarded with not being hit ... that guy is getting screwed.

They make these changes to help one set of players, but the other half of the equation gets the shaft for it. Its honestly better off without HSR. At least this version of HSR, which is so counter intuitive its silly.

You just don't understand host state rewind.

It benefits everyone since it puts your targets close to where you see them on your client when you fire at them. Without host state rewind, the opposing mechs are NEVER where you see them on your client except when they are not moving.

Before host state rewind you had to fire lasers at the empty space in front of fast moving mechs to hit them at all. Ballistics were luck, prayer and a bit of skill. The balance of PPCs and ballistics was way off since they could be counted on to miss most of the time,

With host state rewind the situation is better though not perfect. Targets are close to where you aim. However, it does mean that there can be 0.5s to 1.0s lag in damage allocation at times ... but YOUR client keeps playing and draws an approximation of what is happening on the server. This means that sometimes your client draws the enemy fire as a miss even when it hit ... and the damage catches up later.

It does not benefit anyone in particular ... and it only harms the ego of the player who thought they had escaped getting hit when actually they did not.

Finally, every online server authoritative FPS game includes some form of host state rewind ... it isn't new technology. All that HSR does is to try introduce a way to synchonize 24 clients and the server ... the game is being played on the SERVER ... the client views are only approximations and sometimes the clients guess wrong ... they show misses instead of hits and hits instead of misses.

Edited by Mawai, 14 January 2014 - 06:06 AM.