106 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 12 January 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

I'm sure that'll be great for the weapons tutorial that we have right now!

New Thread Title: Why do PPCs blow up instantly after I fire them?

Hell I just found out after 18 months that if you hold your reticle over a target for a few seconds, it may or may not target the opponent.

[Sephlock]

I just miss taking a 6 PPC Awesome and waiting... waiting... WAIIIIIIITTINGGGGG...

ALPHA STRIKE!

BWAH HA HA HA HA look at that Spider distintegrate!

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 12 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Hell I just found out after 18 months that if you hold your reticle over a target for a few seconds, it may or may not target the opponent.

I'll need that tinfoil hat to escape detection.

[wanderer]

Bront, on 12 January 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

But not only is that not how MIN range works in TT, in this case (unlike missiles, where I can understand to a point), it makes little to no sense. It also still severely limits damage for mechs at extreme close range.

If PPCs still can disrupt ECM in min range, why can't they do damage?

Why can't my LRMs arm inside of 180m?

Because you can't take a to-hit penalty and apply it to MWO,and that's how min-range worked in TT. Thus, deadzones.

[Sephlock]

wanderer, on 12 January 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Why can't my LRMs arm inside of 180m?

Because you can't take a to-hit penalty and apply it to MWO,and that's how min-range worked in TT. Thus, deadzones.

How about a "to arm" random modifier ?

[Bront]

wanderer, on 12 January 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Why can't my LRMs arm inside of 180m?

Because you can't take a to-hit penalty and apply it to MWO,and that's how min-range worked in TT. Thus, deadzones.

I understand that. I can at least understand the arming delay on LRMs (prevents friendly fire and safety). from a potential explanation that isn't too far fetched. The PPC suddently doing full damage stretches me a bit thin though.

AC5, GR and AC2 don't have their Min-Range Dead zones either.

[wanderer]

Bront, on 12 January 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

I understand that. I can at least understand the arming delay on LRMs (prevents friendly fire and safety). from a potential explanation that isn't too far fetched. The PPC suddently doing full damage stretches me a bit thin though.

AC5, GR and AC2 don't have their Min-Range Dead zones either.

And I've argued more than once that they should. It'd give people reasons not to treat them as high-DPS brawling weapons.

[Bront]

wanderer, on 12 January 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

And I've argued more than once that they should. It'd give people reasons not to treat them as high-DPS brawling weapons.

It makes absolutely no sense in their case though (Why does this iron slug do no damage prior to 60 meters with my GR?)

[Lukoi Banacek]

wanderer, on 12 January 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

And I've argued more than once that they should. It'd give people reasons not to treat them as high-DPS brawling weapons.

If they did, that would certainly add a little flavor to lasers imo.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I'm sure this will get contested, but from personal experience I still get blasted by PPCs from near point blank range. /shrug

[Lukoi Banacek]

lockwoodx, on 12 January 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I'm sure this will get contested, but from personal experience I still get blasted by PPCs from near point blank range. /shrug

you do because people have twitchy trigger fingers but likely they are doing no damage under 90m as intended.

If you can show that they are in fact, doing damage (perhaps video of such) and you're not mistakenly assuming damage you're taking from something else, is PPC....you should report it as a bug. Because PGI made it clear, they aren't supposed to do damage.

Personally, I've shot friendlies at PB range, enemies at PB (twitchy trigger finger occasionally) and noticeable done 0% damage. On occasion I've seen what I think is paint scraping (i.e. 1% and yellow on the paperdoll) but never anything significant or capable of killing or even seriously weathering the target.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lukoi, on 12 January 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

If you can show that they are in fact, doing damage (perhaps video of such) and you're not mistakenly assuming damage you're taking from something else, is PPC....you should report it as a bug. Because PGI made it clear, they aren't supposed to do damage.

I have some bug reports to fill then.

[ToxinTractor]

Eh, ppcs still should keep the deadzone.

Normal PPCs are sorta like a Ac10 with out ammo. nice mid-longish range weapon that has ok ROF but high heat. So the dead zone sorta makes sense that way. But hell a lot of players still use the ERPPC because they either want that range or are afraid of that dead zone.

Personally I never got the "need" or the want to have that PPC + AC20 load-out. I run energy boats all the time and they fair well. Hell ive done a few load outs where I just use twin PPCs or a singe PPC backed up by energy weapons and it works great! I suggest you tinker with some builds on smurfys and then go try em

[Lukoi Banacek]

If you don't have something other than "I could swear this is what I saw" to back up your report, I doubt it gets much play lockwood, sorry to say.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lukoi, on 12 January 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

If you don't have something other than "I could swear this is what I saw" to back up your report, I doubt it gets much play lockwood, sorry to say.

I back things up when I can but I don't have time to document every single match sorry. When I can't I still try and contribute to the conversation with experience. Take what you will from that.

[Elyam]

Well, it's a shame this isn't a real sim where we're subject to the mech's systems (faulty as they are in the tech-diminished nature of the BTU) attempting to meet our commands instead of automatically meeting them. If that were the case then the to-hit modifiers of TT would translate appropriately. But alas, the majority of players repeatedly declare it not fun or otherwise unacceptable to play that way. I find that to be a terrible loss. But I know, let's not open that can again...

Edited by Elyam, 12 January 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ppc Dead Zone. Is It Still Needed?

Yes it is needed. Players still use PPCs to the exclusion of all other energy weapons. Theyre still way too good.

The only way you could justify getting rid of the deadzone is to give PPCs a damage spreading mechanism like having them do some of their damage to adjacent locations.

[Lukoi Banacek]

lockwoodx, on 12 January 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

I back things up when I can but I don't have time to document every single match sorry. When I can't I still try and contribute to the conversation with experience. Take what you will from that.

Oh no man I didnt mean here. This is just conversation among enthusiasts. I dont doubt you at your word. I meant when you report to support for PGI.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lukoi, on 12 January 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Oh no man I didnt mean here. This is just conversation among enthusiasts. I dont doubt you at your word. I meant when you report to support for PGI.

Accepted and appreciated. May your eject button always function.

[Malleus011]

The PPC deadzone is a lazy solution and should go. If the AC/5 doesn't have one, why should the PPC? LRM mechs and PPC boats were *never* helpless at close ranges in the old school rules. Making canon designs - like the stock Awesome - helpless except for a small laser under 90m is poor game design and shows that the developers do not understand the system they are adapting to a direct-fire simulator.

There are several good solutions to 'minimum range' from the old TT ruleset. The current lazy version is giving them headaches trying to make Clan weapons work. (Oh noes, what do we do with Clan LRMs?) We could have scaled damage (the old solution, which was fine, and closer to TT), or an 'inhibitor coil' mechanic, or ... oh, why bother, they never listen anyway.

In the end, one could simply do the math, figure out the effective damage drop off of say, a hundred PPC shots at 0-30 meters, and simply have the weapon deal that damage at that range. This isn't rocket science, but PGI seems intent on building a bastardized Battletech game full of {Scrap} like Ghost Heat.