56 replies to this topic

[mindwarp]

The clan Daishi/Direwolf is coming. This is fine. The Daishi also stands a very good chance of being the first mech with the ability to mount triple Gauss or UAC/20. Not so fine.

There are 3 variants coming. In 3050, there are only 3 Daishi variants, Prime, A and B. The B is unusual in that it mounts weapons in its torso - in this case 4 UAC/2s. It also has an LB 10-X in the RA. Given that PGI have said we can swap arms between variants, we can put the LA from a Daishi Prime or A onto the Daishi B chassis. And both the Prime and the A have a ballistic weapon in the LA. So we now have a Daishi with 3 separate locations with ballistic weapons.

The Clan Gauss weighs 12t and takes 6 critical slots. The Clan UAC/20 weighs 12t and takes 8 critical slots. The Daishi has 8 critical slots free in the RA/RT/LT/LA, and 50.5t of pod space. 3 UAC/20 is only 36t, leaving 14.5t for ammo or secondary weapons. Same with 3 Gauss.

A 100t mech with near max armour and 3 of the heaviest weapons around. Is anyone else thinking this might be a little broken or OP? Sure, it's not fast, but it kinda craps all over the Jagerbooms and Boomkittys that people raged about.

[McBond]

The dire wolf is supposed to be a very strong mech. Its supposed to be that way.

They should make clan mechs count for double tonnage or something to "balance" them.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Question is how will heat work on UAC20s, will double tapping three of them shut you down?

[mindwarp]

If the Smurfy charts hold true, 6 AC/20 shots generates 267.84 heat. 3 AC/20 shots is only 55.44, which could be dealt with. The Daishi has 15 double heat sinks built in, and space for more. But both those numbers are based on the IS AC/20, which is slightly cooler than the Clan ultra.

[SgtMagor]

Clan mechs should be able to overwhelm any IS mech on a 1on1 fire fight!
( mech of the same tonnage)

Edited by SgtMagor, 11 January 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[theta123]

SgtMagor, on 11 January 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Clan mechs should be able to overwhelm any IS mech on a 1on1 fire fight!
( mech of the same tonnage)

Yes but then everyone is gonna play Clan mechs...

IIRC not even the clans had enough omni mechs to supply their frontline troops. I say each team gets a limited number of clan mechs OR get dropped in a match only WITH clan mechs.

[mindwarp]

Incidentally, the Daishi could also theoretically mount 8 clan erppcs doing 15 damage each. It'll explode on its first alpha, but it is possible.

I'm thinking the real limiter on Clan mechs is going to be heatsinks. Clan tech runs a lot hotter than IS tech, and the clans have no real low heat options. Sure their guns are lighter, but there's only so many heatsinks you can squeeze on a chassis. Even when they're only 2 crits each.

Edited by mindwarp, 11 January 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[Artgathan]

mindwarp, on 11 January 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Incidentally, the Daishi could also theoretically mount 8 clan erppcs doing 15 damage each. It'll explode on its first alpha, but it is possible.

I'm thinking the real limiter on Clan mechs is going to be heatsinks. Clan tech runs a lot hotter than IS tech, and the clans have no real low heat options. Sure their guns are lighter, but there's only so many heatsinks you can squeeze on a chassis. Even when they're only 2 crits each.

On a completely empty chassis, there are enough crits for a clan omnimech (remember that they'll be stuck using ES and FF, sucking up 14 slots) to mount 16 DHS (not counting engine slots). An IS mech with an XL and Endo can mount 10 DHS. When you include the Engine (10 free DHS), this means that a Clan mech with nothing except DHS has 20% more cooling ability than an IS mech.

Game breaking, clearly.

[Edustaja]

3 Gauss ERPPC and UAC/5 would be an optio
n

[xX_Nero_Xx]

daishi is s best my fav config was 3 clan guass and 4 er lrg heat was a minor issue the head though is right int he middle a decent pilot will h ead shoot ya fast enough and move on

[Joseph Mallan]

theta123, on 11 January 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Yes but then ALMOST everyone is gonna play Clan mechs...

IIRC not even the clans had enough omni mechs to supply their frontline troops. I say each team gets a limited number of clan mechs OR get dropped in a match only WITH clan mechs.

FTFY. I am Lyran. I am buying a Battlemaster and going to kill me some Clanners in it!

[mindwarp]

Artgathan, on 11 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

On a completely empty chassis, there are enough crits for a clan omnimech (remember that they'll be stuck using ES and FF, sucking up 14 slots) to mount 16 DHS (not counting engine slots). An IS mech with an XL and Endo can mount 10 DHS. When you include the Engine (10 free DHS), this means that a Clan mech with nothing except DHS has 20% more cooling ability than an IS mech.

Game breaking, clearly.

Clan weapons also generate more heat. No standard PPCs or Lasers for the Clanners, it's ER or Pulse. Makes the few extra heat sinks kind of a wash.

[Sabazial]

I'm still skeptical that we'll ever see a clan UAC20 in MWO, considering they are nerfing clans to be more in line with IS tech. 120 pinpoint damage in 1.5 seconds would be seriously OP considering mechs die in approx 5 seconds or less when focused.

A clan star / lance would destroy any team no matter the tonnage if they all stacked UAC20s, and the forums would melt down with the rage.

[FupDup]

I'm not really concerned about the Daishi breaking the game. It's going to go a whopping 53.46 kph after speed tweak, which will make it a bloated pinata for massed fire. LRM boats especially will have a field day when they meet an enemy Daishi because it will be too slow to retreat from the incoming missile volleys. It'll be too slow to waddle to cover or evade fire from direct fire weapons as well. It will have a very difficult time keeping up with its team or staying near the front lines. Having such a small engine, it will probably also be particularly vulnerable to fast harassers. All in all, it's a one-trick-pony sort of like the Jagerbomb.

As for the Ultra 20s, ghost heat will vaporize you. Additionally, there be rumors of Clan Ultras being split into multiple shells as opposed to a single pinpoint projectile.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 11 January 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

As for the Ultra 20s, ghost heat will vaporize you. Additionally, there be rumors of Clan Ultras being split into multiple shells as opposed to a single pinpoint projectile.

And another tear falls for this IP I love so!

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 11 January 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

As for the Ultra 20s, ghost heat will vaporize you. Additionally, there be rumors of Clan Ultras being split into multiple shells as opposed to a single pinpoint projectile.

Where did you hear this? This is wonderful news! Properly implemented ACs....

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 January 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Sabazial]

Actually, if memory serves me.. weren't the AC20's in mechwarrior 4 split into multiple shells?

[DocBach]

SgtMagor, on 11 January 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Clan mechs should be able to overwhelm any IS mech on a 1on1 fire fight!
( mech of the same tonnage)

which is why IS should have numerical superiority.

[Lupin]

Not worred about UAC/20, my concern is RAC2 and RAC5. Seem to remember you being able to mount 4 or 5 of them.

[luxebo]

Belphegore, on 11 January 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Actually, if memory serves me.. weren't the AC20's in mechwarrior 4 split into multiple shells?

Yeah, LBXAC20s. Not AC20s.

Lupin, on 11 January 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Not worred about UAC/20, my concern is RAC2 and RAC5. Seem to remember you being able to mount 4 or 5 of them.

GGClose for anyone that played MWLL and remembers the Atlas A (3xRAC5 w/ like 10 tons of ammo each, 2xDSSRM4) and the Fafnir E (4xRAC5 w/ the same amount of ammo each).
Likely they will be stupidly placed in this game. But now you mention it, I think I maybe worried about Clan RAC10s and Clan RAC20s.