40 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Would it be bad for the game if jump jets generated more forward thrust?

I know it would probably make jump jet sniping more difficult, but would it make jump jets too strong for mobility purposes? What could one do to balance better forward thrust?

[Dirus Nigh]

Jump Jets do not need any more forward thrust. The jumping mech's momentum from walking or running is enough. The small forward boost from standing still works just fine for clearing obstructing objects, hills, and buildings.

[Monkey Lover]

Anything that makes poptarts mad is ok with me

[Greyboots]

No, no more forward thrust.

Jumping is already a powerful aspect to the game. The last thing we need is to be able to jump further than we already do.

In all honesty I'd love forward thrust while jumping at all stages. Being able to direct yourself a little during a jump would be rather fun. However, I also realize how overly powerful this ability would be and see why it would be quite bad for the game in the long run.

Monkey Lover, on 15 January 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Anything that makes poptarts mad is ok with me

It won't. All you'd have to do is take a step or two backwards before you jump and "hey presto", you can still pop tart as the forward thrust has to fight your backwards momentum. Anyone who can pop tart with any skill at all will master this in about 2 minutes in the training grounds.

[MustrumRidcully]

Greyboots, on 15 January 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

No, no more forward thrust.

Jumping is already a powerful aspect to the game. The last thing we need is to be able to jump further than we already do.

In all honesty I'd love forward thrust while jumping at all stages. Being able to direct yourself a little during a jump would be rather fun. However, I also realize how overly powerful this ability would be and see why it would be quite bad for the game in the long run.

I usually found jump jets overrated and impractical. I think the biggest use I have experienced is in the Canyon maps, because there you really gain a lot of freedom. For light mechs that can carry lots of JJs, it seems to make a more notable difference, since you can take escape and scout routes others can't, but once you go to heavy (and probably already with mediums), the jump jet height and your speed is so low that it's no surprise the primary use seems to be poptarting. I don't know if there is a good compromise possible, and I could just be a bad pilot.

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It won't. All you'd have to do is take a step or two backwards before you jump and "hey presto", you can still pop tart as the forward thrust has to fight your backwards momentum. Anyone who can pop tart with any skill at all will master this in about 2 minutes in the training grounds.

That means you need to find poptart locations where you have space behind you to go to. It would mean a jump jet sniper location would require more space, which limits the possible locations from which it is useful. I am not sure that would be suffiicent, of course. But I remember for example seen someone on River City standing behind a relatively narrow building to poptart - if he would have needed to go back before the jump, he would have exposed himself from one angle, which wouldn't help his target, but it would help the targets allies that attack from a different angle.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 15 January 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Just had a long conversation with someone on this very issue. They don't need more forward thrust, this is just fine.

Jump Jets should be tied into reactor heat. After all, it's what ran them in the past, not some sort of esoteric fuel that magically came back.

If you run your JJ you should generate heat, and the amount of JJ determines how fast you can climb, not max altitude. The more JJ, the higher you can go, because your reactor is generating heat and will shut down after so long if you keep going. Yes, it means you can get way up there at your own risk.

The downside, you fire your alpha strike from way up there? Shut down, crash to the ground uncontrolled for big damage or play firework >POP!< You use it wisely, you can maybe fire some weapons, but you're coming down hot.

Poptarting solved. Jump Jet insanity dialed back.

Edited by Kjudoon, 15 January 2014 - 02:29 AM.

[SirLANsalot]

Kjudoon, on 15 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

Just had a long conversation with someone on this very issue. They don't need more forward thrust, this is just fine.

Jump Jets should be tied into reactor heat. After all, it's what ran them in the past, not some sort of esoteric fuel that magically came back.

If you run your JJ you should generate heat, and the amount of JJ determines how fast you can climb, not max altitude. The more JJ, the higher you can go, because your reactor is generating heat and will shut down after so long if you keep going. Yes, it means you can get way up there at your own risk.

The downside, you fire your alpha strike from way up there? Shut down, crash to the ground uncontrolled for big damage or play firework >POP!< You use it wisely, you can maybe fire some weapons, but you're coming down hot.

Poptarting solved. Jump Jet insanity dialed back.

Not a bad idea really. The more JJ you have the faster and higher you go, but at the cost of generating more heat. It would probably be like a scale. meaning the more you have the faster it generates, this would mean 1 JJ would be very low generation, but you would climb so very very very slow that it would be good for only going over something.

Defiantly would be something I would love to see PGI investigate.

[Mekwarrior]

This heat idea would make ruin the ability to jump jet into battle for a light mech though, as soon as you land you can't fire anyway or you shutdown. Or jump jetting out of battle you would shutdown in the air and be a sitting target.

But I hope they will get rid of the limit that causes jump jets to only recharge when you land, but many forum users are strongly against it. It does seem like a lot of people want everything nerfed and nothing ever improved though

Also have you tried jump jetting at full speed with a jenner lol trying to jump onto ground at a higher elevation, if that situation you need more up thrust.

[Tombstoner]

MustrumRidcully, on 14 January 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

Would it be bad for the game if jump jets generated more forward thrust?

I know it would probably make jump jet sniping more difficult, but would it make jump jets too strong for mobility purposes? What could one do to balance better forward thrust?

Simply assign thrust at a 45 degree angle. half lift, half distance. pop tarting would be directly nerfed if you hopped over the hill your depending on as cover. if you allow for distance so you dont clear the hill hten you need to rest your position again and again. thrust values then would need to be reset to simulate TT jump distances. simple vertical jumps shouldn't be allowed... forward moving jumps yes.... then you can still take your shot. but pop tarting really doesn't have a place in the game since its not part of the lore.

The synergy with bundled high damage alphas is too high and much too hard to balance. But if people really want it then they should have it. but not as a primary form of attack.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Kjudoon, on 15 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

Just had a long conversation with someone on this very issue. They don't need more forward thrust, this is just fine.

Jump Jets should be tied into reactor heat. After all, it's what ran them in the past, not some sort of esoteric fuel that magically came back.

If you run your JJ you should generate heat, and the amount of JJ determines how fast you can climb, not max altitude. The more JJ, the higher you can go, because your reactor is generating heat and will shut down after so long if you keep going. Yes, it means you can get way up there at your own risk.

The downside, you fire your alpha strike from way up there? Shut down, crash to the ground uncontrolled for big damage or play firework >POP!< You use it wisely, you can maybe fire some weapons, but you're coming down hot.

Poptarting solved. Jump Jet insanity dialed back.

Agreed. needs to be more skill to using them. Pop tarts like to think its skill but its not. I always think prairie dogs when I see them and plan return fire accordingly.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mekwarrior, on 15 January 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

This heat idea would make ruin the ability to jump jet into battle for a light mech though, as soon as you land you can't fire anyway or you shutdown. Or jump jetting out of battle you would shutdown in the air and be a sitting target.

But I hope they will get rid of the limit that causes jump jets to only recharge when you land, but many forum users are strongly against it. It does seem like a lot of people want everything nerfed and nothing ever improved though

Also have you tried jump jetting at full speed with a jenner lol trying to jump onto ground at a higher elevation, if that situation you need more up thrust.

That was the point in a lot of cases. A Spider with 8 JJ and 10 sinks could not jump and fire indiscriminately. Now with doubles it could...

Now on TT a Mech with enough jets could pull a U-Turn! can we do that in MW:O?

[Rhaythe]

Kjudoon, on 15 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

Just had a long conversation with someone on this very issue. They don't need more forward thrust, this is just fine.

Jump Jets should be tied into reactor heat. After all, it's what ran them in the past, not some sort of esoteric fuel that magically came back.

If you run your JJ you should generate heat, and the amount of JJ determines how fast you can climb, not max altitude. The more JJ, the higher you can go, because your reactor is generating heat and will shut down after so long if you keep going. Yes, it means you can get way up there at your own risk.

The downside, you fire your alpha strike from way up there? Shut down, crash to the ground uncontrolled for big damage or play firework >POP!< You use it wisely, you can maybe fire some weapons, but you're coming down hot.

Poptarting solved. Jump Jet insanity dialed back.

That's... that's a really good idea.

[Satan n stuff]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

That was the point in a lot of cases. A Spider with 8 JJ and 10 sinks could not jump and fire indiscriminately. Now with doubles it could...

Now on TT a Mech with enough jets could pull a U-Turn! can we do that in MW:O?

You can do a 360 spin but a U-turn isn't really possible, at least not over any significant distance. You should be able to do a small one while standing still, I'm not sure because I haven't tried, but if you try it while running you'll just slow down and drift sideways a bit. You'll turn but you'll be a bit short of a U.

As far as I'm concerned jump jets need to generate heat over time so players won't be able to spam them all the time. Poptarting is still easy as hell and this {Scrap} is really getting old. The forward thrust is easily canceled out by walking backwards before jumping. Increasing the forward thrust but setting a speed cap for jump jets ( or increasing friction ) would prevent this, while also making jump jet movement more responsive. That might actually make it possible to do that U-turn.

Now if someone could explain to me why I need to have some jump jet fuel left to turn in mid air even though turning doesn't cost any fuel, that would be awesome.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 15 January 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[JettSett]

***** n stuff, on 15 January 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

You can do a 360 spin but a U-turn isn't really possible, at least not over any significant distance. You should be able to do a small one while standing still, I'm not sure because I haven't tried, but if you try it while running you'll just slow down and drift sideways a bit. You'll turn but you'll be a bit short of a U.

As far as I'm concerned jump jets need to generate heat over time so players won't be able to spam them all the time. Poptarting is still easy as hell and this {Scrap} is really getting old. The forward thrust is easily canceled out by walking backwards before jumping. Increasing the forward thrust but setting a speed cap for jump jets ( or increasing friction ) would prevent this, while also making jump jet movement more responsive. That might actually make it possible to do that U-turn.

Now if someone could explain to me why I need to have some jump jet fuel left to turn in mid air even though turning doesn't cost any fuel, that would be awesome.

I think you have a bit too complex idea of what a U turn is. A U turn is nothing more than a 180 degree turn, to quickly face the direction you came from. It is called a U turn because that is an automotive term, and since cars can't spin about their base (lets leave drift talk out for the sake of clarity, k? ), but have to actually travel forward to turn, it looks like a U. Likely it shouldn't have been referred to here as a U turn, but as a 180.

Edited by JettSett, 15 January 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

***** n stuff, on 15 January 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

Now if someone could explain to me why I need to have some jump jet fuel left to turn in mid air even though turning doesn't cost any fuel, that would be awesome.

Oh, t hat's easy to explain. As you know, mechs have fusion reactor, and they are attracted by gravity. So when...
WAIT - is that a jenner over there? *disappears*

[BillyM]

JJ recharge needs to be reduced by 50%, that's the only change I see that needs to be made.

(I own 3 jenners, 2 shadowhawks, 1 ctf3d, and 1 victor, have sold my favorite mechs 4sp, srm6cent, ctf1x, catk2 due to limited viability vs JJ mechs)

--billyM

[Nik Van Rhijn]

They should also stop a single jump jet having such a high percentage of the maximum. Having to fit the maximum number of JJs should be required if heavies and assaults are able to poptart at all. Make it more of a choice with drawbacks.
This in conjunction with Kjudoon's idea should be a great improvement. it wont stop long range sniping, they'll just ridge hump in mechs with high mounted weapons.
It would also make jump brawling more interesting.

[Rushin Roulette]

Nice thoughts... but please for the love of {Enter deity of your choice here}, please no. Poptarts are annoying and not my style of play... but more forward momentum for the jumpjets would also mess with any other JJ maneuver such as tightening the turning circle, jumping up a wall (Any extra forward momentum would have to be taken from the jump height... and it would be pretty embarrassing if you want to jump up a building/cliff only to smack up against it like George of the Jungle instead.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 15 January 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[Maerawn]

Kjudoon, on 15 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

Just had a long conversation with someone on this very issue. They don't need more forward thrust, this is just fine.

Jump Jets should be tied into reactor heat. After all, it's what ran them in the past, not some sort of esoteric fuel that magically came back.

If you run your JJ you should generate heat, and the amount of JJ determines how fast you can climb, not max altitude. The more JJ, the higher you can go, because your reactor is generating heat and will shut down after so long if you keep going. Yes, it means you can get way up there at your own risk.

The downside, you fire your alpha strike from way up there? Shut down, crash to the ground uncontrolled for big damage or play firework >POP!< You use it wisely, you can maybe fire some weapons, but you're coming down hot.

Poptarting solved. Jump Jet insanity dialed back.

Just to point out that before you have long conversations about the mechanics of components on a battlemech, you should check sarna.... Heres a link that explains where your "Magically reproducing fuel" comes from... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jump_jets... its called the atmosphere around you... what you are thinking about when stating they should be connected to the fusion engines reaction is this... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flamer.

Since we are on the topic of pointless mechanic discussion, why dont we also add more wooooooosh to the flamer so it can be the loudest, most pointless weapon in this game since there is no mechanic to light the enviroment on fire... we should have a serious discussion about making flamers viable and a utility item like case or bap, so i can screw with people thermal vision and create a smoke cloud to fight in so its harder to hit that stupid spider i cant hit even when i hit it anyway....

[Varent]

it honestly wouldnt effect most jump sniping