53 replies to this topic

[Andrinor Johnston]

I am all for the lower heat threshold and higher heat dissipation. 4ppc alpha should power you down, or blind you, but you should be able to fire 2 ml all day long and not over heat in a stock mech, but that doesn't happen. Something is just wrong with the heat scale.

[Zyllos]

Why do a visual reduction when we already have rules for what high heat is suppose to do?

That makes NO sense...

[Davers]

Zyllos, on 18 January 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Why do a visual reduction when we already have rules for what high heat is suppose to do?

That makes NO sense...

Because having the whole screen fill up with '-2 to hit' would be silly

Chemie, on 18 January 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

we need more penalty for high heat so that AC20/AC5 are finally used

I know! Shame everyone just uses AC/10s.

[Davers]

Heat penalties will be far more punishing to lights and mediums then they will be for heavy and assault mechs. Mechs that rely on speed or maneuverability will be crippled while mechs that rely on firepower will only be inconvienced.

[Sandpit]

That would actually play right into TT rules on heat. You get all kinds of modifiers when you heat up, I'd rather see movement modifiers though, as your mech heats up it slows down. That would REALLY change some dynamics.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Mindwyrm, on 18 January 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

I'm not a battletech guru, and I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any mech that could run 4x UAC 20.

The Dire Wolf/Daishi could do it, but would have only 2 tons room for ammo. 14 shots between 4 UAC's would be scary for about a second or so.

[Mcgral18]

Well, you have to remember that they took TT heat values for weapons, but made them fire 2.5-20 times as fast. They kept dissipation at the same TT level, so mechs are naturally going to be much hotter. They also programmed the heatsinks to increase the capacity, which leads to the hide and peak mentality.

If they fixed the heat system, you could only fire so many weapons simultaneously before shutting down, but you would be able to cooldown at a much faster rate. Even engine DHS are working less efficiently when compared to TT SHS. (assuming we fire at the recycle, and not the 10 second interval)

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 January 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Modo44]

EvilCow, on 18 January 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

Visual obstruction would be not well received but vapor coming out of overheated mechs would be nice.

Mechs are already blowing smoke when hot. The "fog" you sometimes see when stopped is just that.

[maxdest]

Whilst I am not against small heat blur, I wouldn't want it to affect aim too much. Reason is twofold:
If it can be disabled via lower GFX settings many players will play like (like everyone used to play in heat vision mode) secondally, as a localised effect this would potentially be open to hacks to remove it.

Slower movement / twist speed would be better, but I expect these could have host state rewind implications making this higher development cost.

I think easiest to impliment would be random systems shutting down at high heat (like UAC jams).

[Bagheera]

If we had tangible penalties for heat in the first place, things like "ghost heat" would never have come to pass.

[Mindwyrm]

maxdest, on 18 January 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Whilst I am not against small heat blur, I wouldn't want it to affect aim too much. Reason is twofold:
If it can be disabled via lower GFX settings many players will play like (like everyone used to play in heat vision mode) secondally, as a localised effect this would potentially be open to hacks to remove it.

Slower movement / twist speed would be better, but I expect these could have host state rewind implications making this higher development cost.

I think easiest to impliment would be random systems shutting down at high heat (like UAC jams).

Hacks is something the dev's would definitely consider, but I think that applies to everything they change/fix as well. Yet to replace Ghost Heat and still be viable for the intended purpose, I think it would have to be more than slight, or a little.

As a purely theoretical thought, what about making it two seperate systems. Steam and shimmer? It would be harder to code I'd think, but would it make it harder to hack?

Multiple dev's have stated multiple times that they never did like "random". Especially with the UAC. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't had multiple meetings trying to find a different way than a random jam mechanic.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I love the idea of visual impairment while running hot, and it'd be a great to have actual gameplay impact too (weapon spread, reduced speed/manueverability, etc.), but of the two I think visual impairment is the most palatable for the broader player base.

I approved foggy visor/sweat trickles/steam/whatever when running hot.

[Jonathan Paine]

Yay, yet another reason to play the game at the lowest settings so you can actually see the battlefield. Stop the silly visuals, give us community warfare. If you want to play around with the scenery, make trees block lines of sight at a distance and not just up close. Also, get rid off all the pathetic invulnerable statues/cars/posters that all lessen the immersion of the game.

+1 for battletech style heat penalties
-11 for silly steam/glass/etc

[Sybreed]

MustrumRidcully, on 18 January 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

Actual penalties for high heat? Where do I sign?

don't they need to rework their heat design though?

[Mindwyrm]

Sybreed, on 18 January 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

don't they need to rework their heat design though?

I kind of think that might be a whole different subject. From reading on the forums, and looking at the game, MWO is using TT values for heat dissipation, yet the weapons fire quite a bit faster than TT.

[Sybreed]

Mindwyrm, on 18 January 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

I kind of think that might be a whole different subject. From reading on the forums, and looking at the game, MWO is using TT values for heat dissipation, yet the weapons fire quite a bit faster than TT.

hence the need for a heat rework?

[Mindwyrm]

Sybreed, on 18 January 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

hence the need for a heat rework?

Yea, but like I said, that's another subject. I'm just trying to keep this topic from being derailed. There are plenty of posts out there about reworking the heat. This subject is just about adding this effect in place of Ghost Heat. There are posts out there on buffing HS, Nerfing HS, slowing firing times to the 10 seconds TT uses, and even about completely overhauling the weapons to TT heat per second and damage per second values but keeping current firing speeds for excitement.

Yes, something needs to be done about heat. Yea, Ghost Heat fixed a lot of the problem meta's, but by no means all. And GH is about as elegant a solution as using a 5 Lb. rock to drive a nail in a 2x4. (It works, I have done it, but it is not pretty.)

In that light Sybreed. What do you think about using Steam in the cockpit and/or Heat shimmer that increases with your heat lvls. Even possibly decreases slower than your heat dissipation. Either as a stand alone addition, or to replace ghost heat?

[Flying Judgement]

Mindwyrm, on 18 January 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

I heard in the NGNG interview tonight that Russ Bullock thought that with high heat there should be visual limitations based on how hot you are. He suggested slight obscuring of vision with steam. Or I add, maybe heat shimmer? Russ said he couldn't get any traction with it.

With the current upgrade of heat on PPC's I've read that ghost heat isn't necessary anymore. I'm of that opinion myself. So I'd like to get input on what people think of leaving the weapon heat as is, remove Ghost Heat and replace it with a visual impairment. Possibly have that impairment increase with your heat level, yet decrease slower than your heat.

GO!

Mindwyrm

the Daishi will likely b able to mount 2X AC 20 + Uac20 if the devs let it happen
By spreadind damage from PPC is dont have to be random. Its simple shoting the arm do 5 damage on arm 3 on front 2 a back side torso. If the oponent showing his Back a bit more 3 on back 2 on front..
Shot the torso and spread to the arm and to the leg or CT depending on mech
it would be a great weapon to damage component behind the shild And the HUD should flicers for a few second
than less heat penalty could be apllyed, and become a support instead a close range snipig weapon.
I dont know whos idea was but i love to have this weapon not just another boring AC10 doing the same as AC10 without ammo. thats my opinion. (isnt PPC suppose to spread damage on loctions By lore ?)

Back on topic:

im all up for this i miss this feature since the begining. when the Hud starts to disapear at 75% and the heatsinks projecting hot steam from the mech like in MW3 and 4
i remember rushing the enemy with my flamer when ever i seen that and give the command to my team to finish the mech front of me.
decreasing overall heat treshold i wouldnt have problem playing like that
in MW3 the treshold was so low compare to MWO i shot 1 large laser and 2 mediun and the mech was boiling and i lost my HUD long ago
in MWO i shot 6 medium than 2med and 1 large laser straight after and i dont even reached the same heat as in MW3.
no wounder everyone is just pressing alpha all the time.

Edited by Flying Judgement, 18 January 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

Andrinor Johnston, on 18 January 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

I am all for the lower heat threshold and higher heat dissipation. 4ppc alpha should power you down, or blind you, but you should be able to fire 2 ml all day long and not over heat in a stock mech, but that doesn't happen. Something is just wrong with the heat scale.

No you would be able to fire 2 med lasers every 10 seconds and not overheat. Which you do so everything is working but I think they should up the dissipation a bit.... maybe.

[Gryphorim]

I am also all for the removal of ghost heat. An effect like a vision blur to represent fatigue or heat-stress of the pilot, and/or steam, as well as the electrics starting to flicker, put them all in, with them taking effect at different levels of heat!