220 replies to this topic

[Specterr]

First off, I think its great that artillery and airstrikes are useful now, and I do not subscribe that they are P2W so please don't even try to bring that up.

I do think maybe they have strayed a little too far in their importance to deciding match outcomes however. I'd like to suggest the following simple balance adjustment:

* Triple the cooldown (from 10 seconds to 30 seconds)
* Only make the first 10 seconds shared cooldown between the Artillery and Airstrike

This way the quickest you can fire off back to back Artillery is every 34 seconds instead of the 14 seconds we currently have. This allows you to chain Artillery and Airstrikes which I think gives more incentive to take airstrikes over just artillery which is generally the prefered module.

Overall, small changes that I think will still keep artillery useful while scaling back their overall effectiveness in determining the outcomes of a battle.

Thoughts?

[Mystere]

You did not fully explain your rationale for calling for a nerf. You did not expound on your "they have strayed a little too far in their importance to deciding match outcomes" statement.

[Victor Morson]

The cost makes them fine where they are at.

They've become heavily used in competitive matches, and you know what? It's a lot of fun! Groups that hold position for too long can get punished, and you have a way to surprise many jump snipers with a ton of pain.

Granted, in a perfect world, I'd have done them differently, but I think they're spot-on now. They might get really annoying in pugs if they were cheaper (Since then you'd be taking random strikes from everyone rather than team vs team striking), but the cost makes them relatively uncommon.

Even the visuals have finally been improved and look great.

I've was one of the loudest voices mocking/pushing for fixed Strikes, with their hilarious non-damage and recycled AC/10 graphics. Am I happy with what we got now? Yep! They look good, they are reasonable, and they all around fine. Except one thing: The accuracy increase upgrade. Ugh.

[Roadbeer]

I agree, I remember when they were put in, I actually thought they were an April Fool's joke.
Having said that, I'm glad that all this time they were under powered rather than over powered.
I feel that strikes are just fine right now in both price and damage. And, Like Victor said, they look MUCH cooler now.

[3rdworld]

I would just like to see headshots not be possible with them.

[Nik Reaper]

I really just wish Arty. strike was damage over time, like 5-6 seconds od splash damage every second over most of the strike area, so that you have a reason to move out of it when you start to feel the damage , so arty would be DOA and air stike would be front loaded damage + I would tighten up the bombs so to be sure that every thing in the strike line takes some damage.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 17 November 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[Deathlike]

The only nerf I would call is that the airstrike+arty timer is chained together, with a delay of 20 to 30 seconds.

I don't know what the timer is on the "next" arty+airstrike is called, so I plead ignorance given that I don't use them.

The biggest problem IMO is that you can use both on a location at the same time. Light mechs are most affected by this in a cap-related situation. Just loading up on both on the location is a recipe for a near guaranteed kill. 1 is enough to cripple a light mech... but doubling down is a tad much.

Now, the mech using it is kinda doesn't matter, because anyone can take advantage of it, but 40 points of spread damage is still a lot (besides it being another insta-gib Lolcust option, not that it takes much there).

That's the only real change that needs to be made.

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

The only nerf I would call is that the airstrike+arty timer is chained together, with a delay of 20 to 30 seconds.

I don't know what the timer is on the "next" arty+airstrike is called, so I plead ignorance given that I don't use them.

The biggest problem IMO is that you can use both on a location at the same time. Light mechs are most affected by this in a cap-related situation. Just loading up on both on the location is a recipe for a near guaranteed kill. 1 is enough to cripple a light mech... but doubling down is a tad much.

Now, the mech using it is kinda doesn't matter, because anyone can take advantage of it, but 40 points of spread damage is still a lot (besides it being another insta-gib Lolcust option, not that it takes much there).

That's the only real change that needs to be made.

Are they not already linked? 10 seconds before you can fire an Arty or Air if any friendly shoots one.

If not, yes that would be a good change. I think at least 15 seconds between, though it might take some testing for a solid number for balance.

[Victor Morson]

If these get more and more delays, meaning less and less people can use theirs, all it will do is render them worthless. They are fine. Don't fix what is not broken.

Only the accuracy upgrade needs work now. Everything else is solid. They even have decent visual FX!

[990Dreams]

Why are there not more canonical things like Long Tom or Arrow IV missile bombardments?

[Troutmonkey]

I would love to see a 30 second or more shared cooldown, and the ability for headshots to be removed. Apart from that they seem fine. But when arty can do anything from around 0-10% damage or randomly insta-kill mechs it doesn't seem right at all.

EDIT: THIS IS WHY HEADSHOTS NEED TO GO



The smoke was between my legs, and not visible. As you can see I took no other damage and it was only 1:50 into a match. Not cool at all.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 18 November 2013 - 02:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 17 November 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

I would just like to see headshots not be possible with them.

I don't. You can be head capped by LRMs, so you should be able to die to Arty or Airstrikes. If we cannot accept our gaming mortality we should not be gaming.

[Troutmonkey]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

I don't. You can be head capped by LRMs, so you should be able to die to Arty or Airstrikes. If we cannot accept our gaming mortality we should not be gaming.

LRM's don't do 40 damage in a single strike, and thus it's impossible to be insta-killed via headshot. LRM's also give you ample audio and visual warning of thier incoming, and can be countered by cover and AMS.

Artillery on the other had seems to have a very high chance of headshotting for a weapon system that weighs 0 tonnes and takes up no critical slots. It's a completely unfun way to die.

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 18 November 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

LRM's don't do 40 damage in a single strike, and thus it's impossible to be insta-killed via headshot. LRM's also give you ample audio and visual warning of thier incoming, and can be countered by cover and AMS.

Artillery on the other had seems to have a very high chance of headshotting for a weapon system that weighs 0 tonnes and takes up no critical slots. It's a completely unfun way to die.

There isn't a fun way to die! They all suck! an Arty strike doesn't do 40 damage to just your head, and even if it did, Arty can and should be able to steal a win from a loss. Visual warning... Colored Smoke, As for an audio warning, outside of a high pitched whistle, why should we get a warning? Do we really need to have our hand held that much?

[Troutmonkey]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

There isn't a fun way to die! They all suck! an Arty strike doesn't do 40 damage to just your head, and even if it did, Arty can and should be able to steal a win from a loss. Visual warning... Colored Smoke, As for an audio warning, outside of a high pitched whistle, why should we get a warning? Do we really need to have our hand held that much?

I'd disagree. There are plenty of fun ways to die, most of them involve glorious mech on mech action with each side shooting the {Scrap} out of each other, before your mech finally gives after taking too many blows. Walking for one minute and then randomly dieing without so much as seeing the enemy isn't very fun.

And any weapon that can instantly kill you, weighs nothing, generates no heat, takes up no crit slots, and requires only a millisecond to fire needs to have some downsides.

Having Betty announce an incoming strike would be completely fair in this instance, but the chance of insta-kills from headshots really needs to go.

Heck they could make arty awesome by making it an actual weapon system with one ammo, and a laser designator that must be held on the target location for three seconds to call in. I'd weight this at a tonne and 3 crit slots, seeing as it only has one use. This should only be available to lights and maybe mediums.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 18 November 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 18 November 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I'd disagree. There are plenty of fun ways to die, most of them involve glorious mech on mech action with each side shooting the {Scrap} out of each other, before your mech finally gives after taking too many blows. Walking for one minute and then randomly dieing without so much as seeing the enemy isn't very fun.

And any weapon that can instantly kill you, weighs nothing, generates no heat, takes up no crit slots, and requires only a millisecond to fire needs to have some downsides.

Having Betty announce an incoming strike would be completely fair in this instance, but the chance of insta-kills from headshots really needs to go.

Heck they could make arty awesome by making it an actual weapon system with one ammo, and a laser designator that must be held on the target location for three seconds to call in. I'd weight this at a tonne and 3 crit slots, seeing as it only has one use. This should only be available to lights and maybe mediums.

I don't use Arty myself, I have felt it used against me. I have no complaints. Arty is fine as of my play, just like swarms of LRMs. ANd the Arty you describe using a spotter... That's called Arrow 4. Do you really want a Arty strike as accurate as SSRMs? Smoke you can get away from Laser spotters you won't even know is on you!

Arty is fine, you die to head cap randomly.

[Troutmonkey]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Arty is fine, you die to head cap randomly.

That's the problem, it's occurs too often. The damage from arty itself is fine but the random headshots are the killer.
How can a weapon that does 0-10% damage OR 100% insta-kill seem fine?

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 18 November 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

That's the problem, it's occurs too often. The damage from arty itself is fine but the random headshots are the killer.
How can a weapon that does 0-10% damage OR 100% insta-kill seem fine?

IF it is random, it is perfectly fine, Prove it is not Random, collect the evidence. Die more than 20% of the time to decap from arty and you will have an issue, otherwise it is just your turn to die impotently.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

IF it is random, it is perfectly fine, Prove it is not Random, collect the evidence. Die more than 20% of the time to decap from arty and you will have an issue, otherwise it is just your turn to die impotently.

In a game with no respawns. Random deaths are not fine at all. Specifically ones that require no trade-offs by the other team.

[Troutmonkey]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

IF it is random, it is perfectly fine, Prove it is not Random, collect the evidence. Die more than 20% of the time to decap from arty and you will have an issue, otherwise it is just your turn to die impotently.

Currently I have been struck by 5 arty strikes.
1 of them took my head to red, and I was killed by a glancing laser blow a few seconds later
1 of them killed me instantly

That makes hmm... 2/5ths which is about, 40%?

I'm not counting the few that I have managed to avoid, because the problem only happens when you actually get hit.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 18 November 2013 - 06:33 AM.