18 replies to this topic

[pewpewpewkaboom]

Is there any point in firing uac5 at the 1.5s intervals? wouldn't it be exactly the same as ac5 when not double firing, 0.75s intervals??

[Modo44]

In the current system, the UAC5 is a burst weapon. You hold and/or double-tap it for a few seconds (usually until one jams), then go/turn away. Once you get a rhythm of firing and shielding/hiding going, it is very deadly -- typically scarier than the AC5. If you prefer to put down constant fire from afar, the AC5 makes more sense.

[Nick Makiaveli]

One note, if you attempt to fire it while it's jammed, it will restart the timer to unjam. So keep that in mind....if you have two, continuing to fire the 2nd will prevent the first from unjamming, though you will continue to do some damage (unless of course the 2nd jams too).

[Aesthir]

Nick Makiaveli, on 19 January 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

One note, if you attempt to fire it while it's jammed, it will restart the timer to unjam. So keep that in mind....if you have two, continuing to fire the 2nd will prevent the first from unjamming, though you will continue to do some damage (unless of course the 2nd jams too).

Is this accurate? If so, is that working as intended, or another massive bug?

If it was working as intended, it would make no sense to ever load more than 1 of these weapons! Since each weapon can jam independently, it just doubles the chances of jamming and screwing the entire weapon system unless you have them in independent groups.

It would explain why my Phract-4X didn't handle as well with dual UAC5 as it does with dual LBX10, though.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Aesthir, on 19 January 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Is this accurate? If so, is that working as intended, or another massive bug?

If it was working as intended, it would make no sense to ever load more than 1 of these weapons! Since each weapon can jam independently, it just doubles the chances of jamming and screwing the entire weapon system unless you have them in independent groups.

It would explain why my Phract-4X didn't handle as well with dual UAC5 as it does with dual LBX10, though.

Pretty sure it's working as intended. It won't double the chance of jamming, just increases the time it takes to unjam. From what I've seen, most people keep firing as long as they have a target, then let it unjam.

Personally I don't have a mouse with 42 buttons, so I just I just deal with it on case by case basis, though lately I've not used the Ultras at all. If I was running a dual Ultras now, I would just set them up on left and right buttons, or use fire selected group for the second and other weapons.

*edit*

Did some poking around and seen several references to the jam only lasting 5 seconds, period. I am wondering if they didn't make an undocumented change or fix a bug that we all thought was normal.

Hit the testing ground with silly build, ie no armor, 4 UAC/5s and as much ammo as will fit. Hold down the button and see what happens. Just make sure to pack some heat sinks so overheating doesn't slow you down too much.

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 19 January 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[Roughneck45]

pewpewpewkaboom, on 19 January 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Is there any point in firing uac5 at the 1.5s intervals? wouldn't it be exactly the same as ac5 when not double firing, 0.75s intervals??

So that you don't jam.

Sometimes it it wise to tap the fire button to avoid the potential jam, but usually it is best to just hold it down and unload as much as possible.

Aesthir, on 19 January 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Is this accurate?

No.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 January 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[Konril]

I apologize for the low quality videos I'm posting here. My computer is adequate to run MWO at medium settings, but apparently doesn't have the power to process video at the same time. However, I would like to show it.

3 Ultra AC/5s in the testing grounds. In this short video in the spoiler, I kill a couple mechs on the way to the Atlas and proceed to just hold down the trigger and dismember that thing.

Spoiler

I took the same 3 Ultra AC/5 Jagermech into a live match to see if I could spot any behavior different than in the testing ground. 13 minute low-quality video in the spoiler.

Spoiler

To the best of my ability to observe and test, an Ultra AC/5 cannon will unjam and start to reload again exactly 5 seconds after jamming. Holding or releasing the trigger doesn't seem to make any difference, and a few times in my test the first autocannon to jam un-jammed while I was still firing the others.

Oh, and this thing is a monster. Once I got a bead on his center torso, the Ilya opponent in the live game didn't last any longer than the Catapult in the testing grounds. And while I didn't get the kill on that Atlas, the sudden catastrophic loss of all his center torso armor made sure he didn't last long against my allies after I backed off.

In answer to the original question, no there isn't any real point in holding back that second shot. It has been my experience that the better pilots aren't prone to waltzing out in the open and taking a pounding. They typically are aware of where the cover is and will move behind cover as often as they can to cool off and break the opponent's DPS. The Ultra cannon's second shot really makes a difference in delivering more damage to the opponent before he moves behind the nearest rock, hill, or building. While there is a bit of randomness to the cannon, after the jamming behavior is accounted for the Ultra cannon's average DPS is no worse than the standard AC/5. However, hiding behind a rock to un-jam isn't all that different than hiding behind a rock to cool down. Yet the standard AC/5's almost-too-literal DPS gets broken by taking cover or turning away.

Does this make sense?

[Nick Makiaveli]

Konril, on 19 January 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

Does this make sense?

Yes. Thanks for doing the testing. Much appreciated.


One more question...can it jam on the first shot, or just first "extra" shot? Tried one out on my BLR (swapped out the 3 MGs for it) and a couple times it seems like it jammed on the very first shot a couple of time.

Did this happen or did it just seem that way because I had an Atlas coming around the hill?

[Mott]

Nick Makiaveli, on 20 January 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

One more question...can it jam on the first shot, or just first "extra" shot? Tried one out on my BLR (swapped out the 3 MGs for it) and a couple times it seems like it jammed on the very first shot a couple of time.

I can beat that, last night i had it jam BEFORE firing my first shot. That was a surprise.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mott, on 21 January 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

I can beat that, last night i had it jam BEFORE firing my first shot. That was a surprise.

Yikes.....that would definitely suck.....

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

Sell it and get an AC/5.
0% chance of weapons jam.

Unless I'm mistaken, and I may be... but the 2nd round from the UAC5, while it hits the overall target, it doesn't hit the specific point the first round does.
Isn't it spread damage?

UAC/5.... 60% of the time... it works.... everytime.

Edited by BaconTWOfourACTUAL, 22 January 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[AaronWolf]

BaconTWOfourACTUAL, on 22 January 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Sell it and get an AC/5.
0% chance of weapons jam.

Unless I'm mistaken, and I may be... but the 2nd round from the UAC5, while it hits the overall target, it doesn't hit the specific point the first round does.
Isn't it spread damage?

UAC/5.... 60% of the time... it works.... everytime.

From what I have seen, it is usually due to the second round coming just a little later then the first-so the target moves and spreads the damage to a different spot.

I generally torso twist immediately when I spot a commonly used AC type chassis. So I don't have my CT/RT/LT messed up really hard.

And that is the thing about AC/5 vs UAC/5. UAC is kinda the gamblers weapon. You don't know if it will allow you to fire 20 rounds unimpeded, or jam on the first shot.

AC/5 is just reliable. Like a good horse. Or truck. It keeps on goin' and goin'. Until its outta gas.

[TygerLily]

Plus, with the AC5 being ton lighter than the UAC, you can get 30 more shots for another ton of ammo...

[Alaskan Nobody]

BaconTWOfourACTUAL, on 22 January 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Unless I'm mistaken, and I may be... but the 2nd round from the UAC5, while it hits the overall target, it doesn't hit the specific point the first round does.
Isn't it spread damage?

It can hit the same place, but as it is firing a 1/2 to full second later, it is unlikely to.

[AaronWolf]

TygerLily, on 22 January 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Plus, with the AC5 being ton lighter than the UAC, you can get 30 more shots for another ton of ammo...

Lily have good point.

Ungo agree.

Ungo good with this point.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

you group it with an ac10

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

AaronWolf, on 22 January 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

I generally torso twist immediately when I spot a commonly used AC type chassis. So I don't have my CT/RT/LT messed up really hard.

I bet Spiders aren't on that list.... lol

[AaronWolf]

BaconTWOfourACTUAL, on 22 January 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I bet Spiders aren't on that list.... lol

Only when I know Harvester or one of the other Spi-Spi-pilots are out there. I generally am paranoid about Spiders in general. Especially the LPL/ERLL type ones that zip around.

Though AC-ones I get more paranoid about. I know their gonna try and hit me as much as possible, so I do the Notre-dame-shuffle and try to kill them ASAP.

I do wish there were more AC-Spiders though. Its a cool loadout to fight with and against!

[Buckminster]

Maybe in pairs the reliability of the AC/5 makes it superior, but as a single ballistic, I prefer the UAC. That 1.5 seconds seems sooooo sloooow.

Even if I'm not putting all of those shots on the same spot, I'm still putting more shots down range.