56 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Sure feels like it.
I've tried 2 variants of the QD, and I've never been destroyed so fast as I have in this mech.

I seem to get instantly legged as soon as any fighting starts. 56 armor max FFibrous, vs anything, and both legs just blow away like burnt paper, and standard armor I blink and a leg is gone.

Is there a bug that deals double damage to the QD's legs or something? or are the hitboxes enormous, as it seems I'm taking leg damage still while I'm behind cover, shooting over hills with my shoulder ERLL's..

I'm going to assume that everyone has tried it at least once and came to the same conclusion, because I never see another one on the field, and if I do its dead so fast that its not even funny.

Feels like a big mistake even taking this mech out, as it suffers all the penalties of the Heavy Class such as heat and maneuverability drops, jumpjets cost twice the weight for same heights as medium mechs get.

I've tried 1 ERLL, 2 LL, setups, can't cool the mech.
Tried 1ERLL, 2 Medlas, 2/3 SRM of choice, doesn't seem to deal much damage.
Tried 4 Medlas, 2 SRM6, overheats, and poor hitreg with srm means weak brawling.
Tried 4 MedPulse, 2 srm4 /or 2 SSRM2, can't keep cool.

I'm guessing that this is an urban brawler, suited to the same role as the Shadowhawk and other JJ equiped medium class mechs, but I get beat down by everything except locusts.

Wolverines, Griffins, and Shadowhawks all seem to do the job better with much more maneuverability and firepower.

and at 5 more tons, I can roll in a Jagermech and just pound things.
I'm out of ideas, selling this POS.

Edited by Mister D, 16 January 2014 - 01:44 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

Yup, there should be a guide around here of what mechs to avoid until you have mastered everything else in the game as they are a royal platted XXXXX to play.

Best Variants are genneraly pure mediums or a mediums with a single PPC (Torso mounted to clear cover) and then either LRM's, SRM's or streaks.

Never alpha, but instead plan on only using certain groups of weapons.

For instance on one of my builds I have x4 mediums and x2 SRM6's. I use the medium lasers when ever I am in range, but when a target drops to within 270m or SRM range I primary the SRM's and then only use the mediums as heat dictates and only alpha if you have a sweet opening.

But apart from that there is simply too many unforgivable errors made when they created this mech. Too Big, Massive legs, poor hardpoints and the list goes on.

[John MatriX82]

Until the Shawks came, the QKDs had some chances to be used as fast flankers or as a bigger medium.
And back before the arrival of the dreaded ghost heat, 3PPCs+2MLs made it, in the 5K variant, a very respectable foe.

Now.. well, it's simply too big and bulky and not much armored to do nearly anything besides being better than a Dragon.. which isn't enough with the newer 55 tonners we already mentioned.

There are no bugs in leg duration.. it's simply too big, requires XL engines, so if they don't leg you, they simply side you in a couple of volleys.

To me the only usable variant is the 5K, XL 340, dual ERLL, 4ML and all the DHSs you can stuff, running full armored besides the arms @ 32, endo, single JJ, but even then, I'd use a shawk or a CTF-3D instead of it. This of course if I'd still be playing this game actively..

Edited by John MatriX82, 16 January 2014 - 02:08 AM.

[SgtMagor]

tried to make this mech work for me when it first came out, but I couldn't do anything with it.

Edited by SgtMagor, 16 January 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Mike McSullivan]

i have the same problems like you guys. I have the H-Variant which screems for a PPC+Missile-combo but doesnt work. I´m still wondering why/how i can fit heavy ACs into my CTFs/Jagers with no problems but dont get the QKD to work at all with lighter weaponry.

Edited by Mike McSullivan, 20 January 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[Ghogiel]

QKD was my solo PUG ride for a little while when it first came out.


The heat changes to PPCs and ghost came in and really hurt mechs in that 50-65 ton range unless it was a ballistic mech, energy heavy mechs in that weight ranges couldn't compete properly and keep up with the meta shift to AC dominant with PPC back up. Where as before PPC where often the mains, 732s STKs CTFs all the badboys.

Everything heavier would cope somewhat better being an energy boat, but pretty much everything that didn't have a ballistics slot was essentially nerfed.

Edited by Ghogiel, 16 January 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Yup. The 55 tonners really ate the qkd's lunch, right after ghost heat and ppc changes kicked it in the junk. Not enough tonnage to get enough cooling, and your loadout is so limited by ghost heat


Sad, because for a brief time after its release, the QKD was a pretty great flanker - similar to a dragon, but more maneuverable and less OMG MASSIVE TORSO.

Now... Its just trash compared to the exceptional Shadowhawk, which does everything it does, better.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Wintersdark, on 16 January 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Not enough tonnage to get enough cooling, and your loadout is so limited by ghost heat

Now... Its just trash compared to the exceptional Shadowhawk, which does everything it does, better.

Sorry to tell you but one of the advantages of the Quickdraw is that its tonnage allows it to have better cooling than the 55 tonners. Also, the Shadowhawk is not better, just different. The Quickdraw also has an advantage in its hardpoints.

There are 2 builds that are quite nasty, and you can do extremely well in if your a good pilot :

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...34aa24b23dcb8ec[/smurfy]

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a06534c60d5bc2f[/smurfy]

The first build is my favorite, the 38 alpha this thing puts out is nasty. 18 DHS ensures the cooling is actually quite good, and the JJ's provide good mobility and you can pop up from range and get someone with the LL's. Lights stand no chance against you and you can take out main targets easily if your careful. The trick is to whittle away with the Large Lasers till your target is cored, then when you know you got him you get close enough to alpha and you secure the kill.

The second build is pure sniper. A friend of mine from my old unit Blackstone Knights showed me this build, and it does really well. 19 DHS is enough to cool the ERPPC's, just keep your distance and shoot and scoot if anyone comes after you.

Edited by Alwrath, 16 January 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[DONTOR]

Yes unfortunately Quickdraw= Quick legged, I really hope they adjust the leg hitboxes eventually.

[Wintersdark]

Alwrath, on 16 January 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Sorry to tell you but one of the advantages of the Quickdraw is that its tonnage allows it to have better cooling than the 55 tonners. Also, the Shadowhawk is not better, just different. The Quickdraw also has an advantage in its hardpoints.

There are 2 builds that are quite nasty, and you can do extremely well in if your a good pilot :

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...34aa24b23dcb8ec[/smurfy]

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a06534c60d5bc2f[/smurfy]

The first build is my favorite, the 38 alpha this thing puts out is nasty. 18 DHS ensures the cooling is actually quite good, and the JJ's provide good mobility and you can pop up from range and get someone with the LL's. Lights stand no chance against you and you can take out main targets easily if your careful. The trick is to whittle away with the Large Lasers till your target is cored, then when you know you got him you get close enough to alpha and you secure the kill.

The second build is pure sniper. A friend of mine from my old unit Blackstone Knights showed me this build, and it does really well. 19 DHS is enough to cool the ERPPC's, just keep your distance and shoot and scoot if anyone comes after you.

Errr, yeah. See, while the QKD has 5 extra tons, the Shadowhawk has 1-3 ballistic slots. These allow very low heat high damage output at long range, which the pure-energy or energy-missile QKD's simply cannot do.

The energy reliance (particularly given how unreliable SRM's are right now) really hurts the QKD. Energy weapons are very hot, and it's extremely difficult to do much of anything other than run 2 (ER)LL's or 2 PPC's. Even with that, the Shadowhawk is still able to output far, far more DPS in a sustained manner whereas the Quickdraw will quickly hit thermal limits.

You can make do in a Quickdraw, hell, you can make do in a Dragon (which is in every way outclassed by the quickdraw). That doesn't make it a particularly good mech - energy boats these days are at a severe disadvantage out of the gate. The Shadowhawk is inarguably a superior mech. It's not even close.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Wintersdark, on 16 January 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Errr, yeah. See, while the QKD has 5 extra tons, the Shadowhawk has 1-3 ballistic slots. These allow very low heat high damage output at long range, which the pure-energy or energy-missile QKD's simply cannot do.

The energy reliance (particularly given how unreliable SRM's are right now) really hurts the QKD. Energy weapons are very hot, and it's extremely difficult to do much of anything other than run 2 (ER)LL's or 2 PPC's. Even with that, the Shadowhawk is still able to output far, far more DPS in a sustained manner whereas the Quickdraw will quickly hit thermal limits.

You can make do in a Quickdraw, hell, you can make do in a Dragon (which is in every way outclassed by the quickdraw). That doesn't make it a particularly good mech - energy boats these days are at a severe disadvantage out of the gate. The Shadowhawk is inarguably a superior mech. It's not even close.

Ballistic mechs and energy/missile mechs are just that, different. Ballistics are not superior to energy/missile mechs. Sorry to tell you. Sure missiles need to be fixed atm, but energy builds are very viable, always have been. Whats funny is my builds are not 2 ERLL or 2 PPC, and they work if you play test them. Im not trying to do high damage low heat at range with a Quickdraw, it fullfills a different role on the battlefield. If you actually try the builds I have posted, you will find that the energy builds are cooled properly with the amount of DHS the Quickdraw can mount due its 60 tons. I have no problem putting out good dps and have scored over 1000 damage in matches in it, most of the time its 500+. Energy " boats " as you call them are not at any disadvantage atm. If you get into a drawn out fight with someone, thats what coolshots are for. The 5K build I posted, along with the Jester, and the Thunderbolt 5SS are very capable mechs that will own any shadowhawk 1 on 1 due to there high alphas. All they need to do is aim for your ballistics torso and bam, either your weaponless or you die because you have an XL, gg. So based on this information, id say these " energy boats " are superior to the shadowhawks.

You can think that the shadowhawk is superior all you want, but the fact is they are 2 very different mechs that fullfill 2 very different roles on the battlefield, and should not be compared.

The shadowhawk will never be an energy platform, because it doesnt have the energy slots. The Quickdraw, along with the Jester and Thunderbolt 5SS and other mechs do. If you want to compare ballistics vs energy please stop posting in this thread because it is off topic.

I have shown my little secrets with the Quickdraw, take it from an early beta vet, they work just fine.

Edited by Alwrath, 16 January 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Clydewinder]

Quickdraws have good hardpoints, given the lack of ballistic capability.

ALWAYS run max leg armor. QKD is fairly durable for the size and manueverable enough to spread the damage around all the hitboxes.

Quickdraw jump jets work far better than Shadowhawk jets. ( Class III vs class IV )

Quickdraw has high engine caps and you can build a 100kph+ energy striker that is effective.

I find them a lot of fun and run them with mixed ranges, ML or MPL, PPC or LL, LRM - jack of all trades, master of none.

With a STD engine you can run medium lasers & heatsinks for close range fighting, but IMO the BJ1 & 1X do that better, as well as the HBK.

Sometimes does well, sometimes not. I don't care, it's a fun, fast mech that flies. High torso energy slots give it the capability for running 2 PPC in sniper role.

[tayhimself]

QKD-5K It's a decent sniper because of high torso energy mounts and jumpjets. Stick with another long range mech and use your movement to your advantage.

QKD-5K
You can run with the 2 LL 4 ML builds posted earlier, or you can use something like this with 2 PPC 4 ML which is a good pop-tart.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c55a30a14828ef1

QKD-4H
Here is a very hot running brawler build. I'd lay off the medium lasers unless you are at a low heat threshold. This works quite well with any 70+ ton mech for company.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...28e212bc24982ae

You can also set up as a 4 LL beast and fire the lasers in pairs if that's more your speed.

[Deathlike]

Alwrath, on 16 January 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Sorry to tell you but one of the advantages of the Quickdraw is that its tonnage allows it to have better cooling than the 55 tonners. Also, the Shadowhawk is not better, just different. The Quickdraw also has an advantage in its hardpoints.

Well, the Shadowhawk isn't remotely close to an energy boat.

Quote

The first build is my favorite, the 38 alpha this thing puts out is nasty. 18 DHS ensures the cooling is actually quite good, and the JJ's provide good mobility and you can pop up from range and get someone with the LL's. Lights stand no chance against you and you can take out main targets easily if your careful. The trick is to whittle away with the Large Lasers till your target is cored, then when you know you got him you get close enough to alpha and you secure the kill.

The second build is pure sniper. A friend of mine from my old unit Blackstone Knights showed me this build, and it does really well. 19 DHS is enough to cool the ERPPC's, just keep your distance and shoot and scoot if anyone comes after you.

See, people are trying to use the Quickdraw like a brawler (it can brawl to an extent) but the hitboxes make this far from favorable. I remember people were suggesting 6 med builds and that's just a terrible use of the mech.

Mike McSullivan, on 16 January 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

i have the same problems like you guys. I have the K-Variant which screems for a PPC+Missile-combo but doesnt work. I´m still wondering why/how i can fit heavy ACs into my CTFs/Jagers with no problems but dont get the QKD to work at all with lighter weaponry.

The 5K variant has only 1 missile hardpoint.... which is more or less useless.

I think part of the problem is the .5 ton -> 1 ton JJ tonnage conversion cutoff... where it makes a lot more sense to run a 55 tonner instead. It isn't entirely a bad thing, but a nuance.

Simply put, the Quickdraw requires a higher skill level to make it effective, but it isn't quite the "Awesome" with its largeness and people thinking they can get away with shaving off leg armor... which is silly. If you're going to shave armor off the mech, it's from the ARMS.

[Spheroid]

Tri-laser is not too hot, you must not have your efficiencies unlocked. Also leg damage could be from missiles. See if AMS helps.

I strongly recommend 350-360XL.

[FireSlade]

Mister D, on 16 January 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Sure feels like it.
I've tried 2 variants of the QD, and I've never been destroyed so fast as I have in this mech.

I seem to get instantly legged as soon as any fighting starts. 56 armor max FFibrous, vs anything, and both legs just blow away like burnt paper, and standard armor I blink and a leg is gone.

Is there a bug that deals double damage to the QD's legs or something? or are the hitboxes enormous, as it seems I'm taking leg damage still while I'm behind cover, shooting over hills with my shoulder ERLL's..

I'm going to assume that everyone has tried it at least once and came to the same conclusion, because I never see another one on the field, and if I do its dead so fast that its not even funny.

Feels like a big mistake even taking this mech out, as it suffers all the penalties of the Heavy Class such as heat and maneuverability drops, jumpjets cost twice the weight for same heights as medium mechs get.

I've tried 1 ERLL, 2 LL, setups, can't cool the mech.
Tried 1ERLL, 2 Medlas, 2/3 SRM of choice, doesn't seem to deal much damage.
Tried 4 Medlas, 2 SRM6, overheats, and poor hitreg with srm means weak brawling.
Tried 4 MedPulse, 2 srm4 /or 2 SSRM2, can't keep cool.

I'm guessing that this is an urban brawler, suited to the same role as the Shadowhawk and other JJ equiped medium class mechs, but I get beat down by everything except locusts.

Wolverines, Griffins, and Shadowhawks all seem to do the job better with much more maneuverability and firepower.

and at 5 more tons, I can roll in a Jagermech and just pound things.
I'm out of ideas, selling this POS.

If you have the hangar space keep it but I will agree that it is one of the hardest mechs to use in MWO. The trick to the Quickdraw is to never stop moving, always twist, and using the JJs a lot to throw off aim. Doing this I have found it to be one of the most durable mechs around but it is also very unforgiving for mistakes; I have actually had several matches where my head was the only place with armor left. To find what build works for you means that you have to play around to see what you like but I recommend that you avoid running meta builds on it.

To build your mech avoid using Ferro-Fibrous upgrade. 56 points of armor FF or standard is the same but the difference is the weight (1.75 tons for standard and 1.56 tons for FF). I like LLs for added range since your team will tend to stop and snipe and MLs just do not have the reach but LLs can reach out to 450(900 max) and if you do not mind an extra 3 heat (ERLLs have 8.5 heat but reach out to 675 meters and 1350 max) ERLLs are a good choice. Use MLs for backup and to handle lights and deal out extra damage SSRMs are a nice bonus. Always try to keep leg armor near max and avoid using arms or legs as ammo locations since it is very easy to lose these location creating risks for explosions. Go heavy on front armor (9:1 ratio works for me) and light on the back. To spread damage and throw off aim constantly jump, and use your JJs to turn faster. I like jumping over bigger mechs while spinning mid air and unloading in their back while they try to turn. If they have too small an engine and you learn to read movements you can stay behind them and rip them apart with no risk to you. Some builds to give you ideas and hopefully help you out:

• QKD-4G – It has the ability to mount 7 JJs and it just about flies with them. LRM for punishing damage and LLs to add to the hurt.
  
• QKD-4H – SSRMs to deal damage to lights and 750 damage worth of missiles. BAP will counter 1 ECM mech so you will ruin their day.
  
• QKD-5K – This is basically my Jester without the twin AMS. The PPCs deal 10 pinpoint damage and disable ECM for a few sec but they run hot so you want to chain them or run 1 per group with 4 MLs as group 3. Also remember PPCs do not work under 90 meters.

I hope that this helps and no matter what you choose to do, good Luck and good hunting out there.

[Iskareot]

In a way it's kinda funny and sad at the same time. PGI has to see that mech and how much its used and sold etc... THEY HAVE to know it's now a ****. I loved it.. I sooo wanted to see it do well but nope. I don't think I have seen but a few in 20 dops this week. The lore of it is cool and I sometimes wish we all just had a book driven game again.. but yeah it's a bummer.

BUT then HEY! We have spiders that I can open up on 20 feet in front of me dead center and it do no damage.. so yeah it all makes perfect sense. One shot a commando but miss a Spider still. So stupid.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I've tried just about every combo I can think of with it.

325XL to run at 87kph (no speedtweak), 1 or 2 JJets, 2 to 3 Medlas in combo with 1 ERLL and 2 to 3 SRM 4 or 6, and rest is all heatsinks (usually 18-20 dblHS).
QKD-4H

This setup actually felt somewhat comfortable, but I still got creamed.

350XL at 94 kph (no Speedtweak). 1 JJ, 1 ERLL or LL, 2 medlas, 1srm6 or 2 srm4.
QKD-4H
Eventually found a working setup with near max leg armor later on being a 1ERLL + 2Medlas build, the build posted is early and still has reduced leg armor with 3 Medlas.

This one was Quick to get into a fight, but as soon as it came time to maneuver around, way too much speedloss in terrain and bogged down neutralized that speed advantage.


280XL didn't work, just not enough slots to put efficient heatsinks there.

I didn't think Standard Engines were worth the time, because I never die from torso hits, its always legs.

What really kills this mech, is the triple slot heatsinks..
Felt the same way with Hunchbacks.
You end up with more free weight than you do slots for placing heatsinks and enough firepower.


*below are "my opinions" on issues of balance so don't freak out if it doesn't follow your beliefs on where gameplay is sitting*

I never did understand the tri-slot DBL-Heatsinks.
Every build still comes down to weight, and the odds of having FFibrous and ESteel on a single energy mech is still impossible on heavier mechs, so why keep TRI-slot heatsinks even in the game.

If standard heatsinks cost 0.75 tons, and doubles cost 1-ton but used only 2 slots instead of 3, heatbalance would be in a better place IMO. Then work ERPPC and PPC heat into the equation for balance, not nerfing everything below it.

The whole "if you have standard heatsinks in the legs you get a bonus in water" doesn't really apply to the majority of combat, I'm not going to stand out in the open to get sniped and pounded by LRM just to get a 14% bonus to heat, and I doubt anyone else will either.

The unbalance between ammomechs and Energymechs IMO is because the heat system has been overnerfed, and that includes weight class modifiers, single/double HS, all of it combined has been choked down too far just to balance PPC's, when it should be balanced around having good fast combat with Medlas and Large Lasers.

Ammomechs are pretty close to right where they should be, except gauss could use a tiny bit of heat to match better with PPC counterpart if it were up to me.

PPCs, AC-20, and Gauss builds should always be a viable option, but doesn't need to be the "only" option in surviving a fight.

Edited by Mister D, 16 January 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Yeah, there's definitely something broken about the hitboxes with regard to the legs, but it's not a bad chassis. The main issue I have is that it accelerates pretty slowly considering its speed.

I've just been playing them like a faster, more fragile version of the HGN 733P. The 5K especially, with 2PPCs and 4MLs, can just wreck face if you control the range of engagements (easy against heavier mechs). 18DHS keeps it fairly cool (don't take endo or ff--you need the space for heat sinks).

Definitely a chassis that takes work and forethought to make it perform well, so I wouldn't suggest it anyone who hasn't already mastered SHawks, Victors, and Highlanders.

[FireSlade]

The tonnage and slots is based off of the table top game and touching them breaks stock mechs so PGI played with the heat. In TT double heat sinks cost 1 ton and 3 slots but cooled for twice the rate of single heat sinks. PGI did this for only the first 10 heat sinks in the engine and after a 250 every 25 rating would allow you to mount a heat sink without needing slots but it would not cool at 2x the rate, only 1.4x. In TT rounds were based off of 10 seconds and 10 DHS was like carrying 20 singles and you could fire 2 PPCs and be heat neutral but in MWO fire rates are about 2-3 times faster and they have trouble keeping up. Also in TT you could only have 30 points heat and bad things would happen the closer that you came to the cap. In MWO you start with 30 points heat cap then heat sinks increase this so you can have 60-70 points before you overheat and there are no penalties to running hot. This is why we saw 4-6PPC Stalkers and why PGI added ghost heat. One thing that you are going to have to learn is some trigger control. With your 4H I would not run more than 15 DHS. I follow the rule of thumb for 1 extra DHS per 4-5 heat weapons so 1 for SLs, MLs, etc and 2 for PPCs, LLs, etc, with ERPPCs being 3 DHS although you can run 11 DHS with ERPPCs but it is very hard to do http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b8ec2d44acb918f. Also hit detection is off with SRMs so only expect to hit half of the time.