633 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

I respect the game I play as well, As I have said I have been on both sides of the imaginary line. As a player and an Insider. I do not need to imagine the game is a sport to love it.

Giving my opinion is in no means disrespectful. In fact it is showing the ultimate respect. I am telling you what I feel is the truth. If you do not like my view, in the future you know to not ask my opinion. How respectful is it to lie or stay silent if you feel you see something wrong?

More false sense of entitlements..haha Those young kids in LoL, they get more respect from me.

Possibly cause you show them more respect than you have shown me? Respect is earned, You are getting all the respect you have earned from me... if not more.

I like how you write off humility as entitlement!

Its not worth it to you. Thats nice. But I'll repeat myself ..... A. Either you can't afford it or B. you don't think PGI deserves the money. Why? Your still not explaining>
As I have already given PGI well over $800 You are right, I don't think $500 or the color gold and a fancy title is a value. $500 v $240 for 24 mechs is a much better deal, and one I would recommend. You get more for your money.

Is it Because A. your a sore loser who is constantly crying about fair play. Or B. you think PGI should be releasing promised content faster? Things LIke CW, when noone even plays 12 mans as it is!? lol
Please read my posts? Read for yourself my stance on what I think is fair play? PGI should release content when it is ready, players need t have more patience, or take a break until such content is released. Whining cause the game isn't to your specific taste right now is putting the cart before the horse.

Oh ya, your not trying to convince anyone not to buy one at all...sure... Keep it to yourself, why post about it in the first place? Consider it a DONATION. OR a way Invest in future development. If you feel you need something out of it for the money, fine. Don't disrespect PGI or other players who don't mind buying one for the game they have loved for 30 years.

To allow players to see more than one perspective and make a better informed choice. If you have the money and ou want to spend it on Gold Mechs, You will. Much like you telling me I should be willing to spend the money does not make me want to spend the money. It is what opinions are. I have donated Plenty to this game already. I donated to cancer research because of a very young and precious fellow gamer. Spare me your attempts to shame me. Many better than you have tried, you don't measure up.

So you can't afford it. Neither can I. But i'm not bitter and jealous about it. ANd i'm not gonna post all over the forums about it. Noone has to buy it for any reason. It does not affect the gameplay or fair competition in any way. What is the problem?

Bitter and jelling would be me saying I will TK any Golden fleece I see, or that I will hunt the enemy golden fleece. I don't think is worth the dollar amount and I have a right to say so. Just as you have a right to disagree.

oh so you can afford a 500 dollar mech. You just dont' respect MWO enough for what would be measly donation for someone as wealthy as you, for a game struggling that you've loved for 30 years? haha...wow. And what does money have to do with sports, except corrupt it? The same reason I used to explain that sportaccord link, invovling chess in the olympics.

Yup. I can afford it, I don't think it is good deal though. I just calculated my donations to this game. $15 a week (minimum) for 6 months ($360). Heavy Metal ($20), One wild weekend of spending ($260), and an Elite Founders package ($80) I do not see a a Founder's or a Phoenix Badge under your Mailed Fist? Why haven't YOU invested in this game as much as I have or NightFire or MisChief? We are wearing our Loyalty on our sleeves. As it looks right now You have supported the game LESS than I have. Just cause someone thinks Chess is a sport does not mean it is a sport.

You just don't understand video games.. The skill gap is just as huge as in pro athletic sports. He is like Tiger Woods, compared to some old guy on an amateur lvl, which would be you. Actually guys in their 30s are usually the old guys, Just in like athletic sports.
I was probably playing video games before you were born. Something can be competitive an not be a sport. Poker, Chess, Heck I compete with my coworkers to see if I can make more quality parts than they do, Does that make my job a sport?

Again, comparing sports to something other then other sports or games, is offtopic. Its you conceding this argument and looking desperate and out of touch.

Comparing a sport to a video game is insulting to sports, And I am a video game Addict!

What does that have to do with the majority that isn't, or the sport itself??! I'm trying to explain that MWO is no different then any sport that gets respected by most of society. Including you, but now your here saying all athletes are lying cheating bums? But yet you have more respect for them the MWO players? haha What are you saying here? I can understand society not respecting the game, but even people that play it everyday?
What you seem to not realize is I can respect a game for what it is, a good to great game. It does not need to be falsely elevated to being a sport to have my respect.

I have respect for people in MWO, that have respect for MWO.
I can respect people that don't respect the game, I guess I am more respectful that you are.

Either you don't support it or you do. Its very suspicious and misleading to claim you feel "honored" by cheaters...hahaha
Really? If someone thinks they have to cheat to beat me, they MUST think I am some MW:O monster. Something that they could not beat fighting fairly.


I don't think she has anything to do with sports or games. And someone who brings her up in this context of this debate is the weird bird. Not me..lmao Your out there buddy.

In the context of Respectable, there is no higher pinnacle than Mother Teresa! The woman dedicated her life to helping the less fortunate, never seeking glory or fame. She did the right thing cause it WAS the right thing. That is the most respectable any person could possibly be.

[color=#959595]You haven't responded to the fact I said sports provide countless jobs in many industries, helping the economy, and saves countless lives. Not to mention they bring people from all around the world together peacefully. Many believe the Olympics helped bring down the Berlin Wall and end the cold war.[/color]
So does the Detroit international auto show. The auto industry, Kmart, WalMart, McDonald's

Peaceful spectators? Why were some team considering pulling their athletes from Sochie again...? The possibility of Terrorist attacks wasn't it? Munich

Just because your not the greatest at video games, doesn't mean someone like Fatal1ty isn't miles ahead of you making you look like a total amateur. This is how I know you never were a competitive gamer. You don't understand the huge skill gaps and how these guys can consistently win in most of these games.
Being a professional gamer does not make him an athlete. I just don't have a false sense of gaming. Even if I was a top ranked player I would not compare myself to being an athlete. That is to conceded even for ME?

I know the person you are too. Same as nightfire. The type of person who has no respect for video games, and because they have had direct influence all these years. The type of person that is most responsible for this genre and e-sports unpopularity in general.
If I had no respect for video games I would not play them at ALL. Cause I would be embarrassed to be associated with em. But here I am discussing the merits of being a gamer geek with with you! I have been a gamer geek for 35 years. If it weren't for my dedication and money spent in arcades back in the 80s, And I was one of the first kids to have Pong back in '72, You wouldn't even have the ability to tell me how wrong I am.

Eventually you won't be around anymore, and hopefully the new generations of young kids, like the ones that have put LoL on a high pedestal, become the changing of the guard for this gaming industry and evolve past the conventional way of thinking that is part of its downfall.
Yup, eventually my reflexes and eye sight will get to a point where I will not be able to keep up with younger eyes & response times. I'll be on the roads instead Good thing I have two children that I taught good sense to!

To you I say, "Caesar, you are a mere Mortal Man."

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 January 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[RichAC]

I respect the game I play as well, As I have said I have been on both sides of the imaginary line. As a player and an Insider. I do not need to imagine the game is a sport to love it.Giving my opinion is in no means disrespectful. In fact it is showing the ultimate respect. I am telling you what I feel is the truth. If you do not like my view, in the future you know to not ask my opinion. How respectful is it to lie or stay silent if you feel you see something wrong?

What is the reason you feel the need to publicly share that opinion? Can you answer that. If you tell me its not to try and convince anyone else to do the same, then you are being disingenuous.

Possibly cause you show them more respect than you have shown me? Respect is earned, You are getting all the respect you have earned from me... if not more

They sure do get more respect. They have earned it. And by respecting their own game, they have made it tremendously popular and respected by many in society. Respect earns respect friend. Not money. And if not true anywhere else, its true for sports.

I like how you write off humility as entitlement!

Oh ya your being really humble, talking about how you've been invovled in it for 30 years(like i care), talking about how things in the book or game are named after your family, bragging about how much money you make a year...haha ya...ok.

As I have already given PGI well over $800 You are right, I don't think $500 or the color gold and a fancy title is a value. $500 v $240 for 24 mechs is a much better deal, and one I would recommend. You get more for your money.

You said you made 1.6 million dollars last year, you cheap-o hahaha. Again, why try to convince others not to pay what they want? Theres only an obivous motive for posting that opinion on a public forum.

Please read my posts? Read for yourself my stance on what I think is fair play? PGI should release content when it is ready, players need t have more patience, or take a break until such content is released. Whining cause the game isn't to your specific taste right now is putting the cart before the horse.

You trolling me on how MWO is nowhere near as respectable as pro sports says it all for me bud. PGI shouldn't trust anything you have to say. You think they developing something that is the least respectable thing to do in life.


To allow players to see more than one perspective and make a better informed choice. If you have the money and ou want to spend it on Gold Mechs, You will. Much like you telling me I should be willing to spend the money does not make me want to spend the money. It is what opinions are. I have donated Plenty to this game already. I donated to cancer research because of a very young and precious fellow gamer. Spare me your attempts to shame me. Many better than you have tried, you don't measure up.

Your being real humble again. And I guess you just assume people are too stupid to come to their own educated conclusions about their own budgets themselves....

What does cancer research have to do with MWO? Thats also has nothing to do with the game bud. Or are you again trying to say how much MWO is less respectable then other things in life. You made 1.6 mil, what is 800 dollars to you? lmao Your motives for your public comments are obvious to anyone. Its almost as if you are convincing people to only not pay for this game, but to not play it either. Because you feel there is more respectable things in life then playing games. Get lost already then guy! When you put your opinions out there publicly, you get responses back.

Bitter and jelling would be me saying I will TK any Golden fleece I see, or that I will hunt the enemy golden fleece. I don't think is worth the dollar amount and I have a right to say so. Just as you have a right to disagree.

ya well your propaganda encourages that behavior.

Yup. I can afford it, I don't think it is good deal though. I just calculated my donations to this game. $15 a week (minimum) for 6 months ($360). Heavy Metal ($20), One wild weekend of spending ($260), and an Elite Founders package ($80) I do not see a a Founder's or a Phoenix Badge under your Mailed Fist? Why haven't YOU invested in this game as much as I have or NightFire or MisChief? We are wearing our Loyalty on our sleeves. As it looks right now You have supported the game LESS than I have. Just cause someone thinks Chess is a sport does not mean it is a sport.


I'm poor and in debt, I don't make 1.6 mil a year. I've donated what I can afford, but money does not make a sport or make it more respectable. Respecting the game makes the game respectable, and therefore more popular, which goes a longer way then your money.


I was probably playing video games before you were born. Something can be competitive an not be a sport. Poker, Chess, Heck I compete with my coworkers to see if I can make more quality parts than they do, Does that make my job a sport?

Say it with me "false sense of entitlement" Poker and Chess are respected games, and MWO is not any less respectable. I've explained what makes a sport. Why are you even asking my position on this? I've been spamming the forums on what defines a sport, and your acting as if I've said osmething else....hahaha Coordination makes a sport. But any "game" can be competitive and require sportsmanhip.

I've been playing pc games since 1986. Yes my first pc game was a sports game, World Tour Golf by EA. on an 8080. IMO, it was sports games that made the pc popular and showed its graphical and play control potential far surpassed the atari and intellivision.

Comparing a sport to a video game is insulting to sports, And I am a video game Addict!

People like you are bad for any gaming community. To be heavily involved with something you don't even respect, is like a virus. I dont' care how much money you throw at it.

What you seem to not realize is I can respect a game for what it is, a good to great game. It does not need to be falsely elevated to being a sport to have my respect.

I wouldn't even use the word elevated...lol And so i guess you don't even respect MWO as much as chess or poker, since you keep bringing them up.


I can respect people that don't respect the game, I guess I am more respectful that you are.

I can't, whether that makes you more respectful to other players I don't know. But it makes me more respectful to the game itself. Your statement makes you more suspicious then anything. As suspcious as your statement that you are honored by cheaters...

Really? If someone thinks they have to cheat to beat me, they MUST think I am some MW:O monster. Something that they could not beat fighting fairly

Are you showing you humility again? haha I think its more delusional. You think people are cheating because they think you in particular are too good? Once again its a random team game, and two, people cheat for many reasons. I can assure you it has nothing to do with you...hahaha. But I'm sure you already know all this...

In the context of Respectable, there is no higher pinnacle than Mother Teresa! The woman dedicated her life to helping the less fortunate, never seeking glory or fame. She did the right thing cause it WAS the right thing. That is the most respectable any person could possibly be.


Ya too bad most of society was more concerned with Princess Diana. We are talking about games, and how video games are the least respected by not only society, but by people like you who are invovled with them. Since there are so many more respectable things to do then play video games, why don't you go do some of them and stop dragging this game down in the mud by trolling me?

So does the Detroit international auto show. The auto industry, Kmart, WalMart, McDonald's

Exactly, and the only reason video games don't, is because of people like you.

Peaceful spectators? Why were some team considering pulling their athletes from Sochie again...? The possibility of Terrorist attacks wasn't it? Munich


This doesn't negate the fact sports provide jobs and bring people around the world together. Which is why the Olympics exist in the first place. Unity and freedom and people of different races, cultures and creeds coming together are what terrorist are against. Thats what the Olympica do.


Being a professional gamer does not make him an athlete. I just don't have a false sense of gaming. Even if I was a top ranked player I would not compare myself to being an athlete. That is to conceded even for ME?

Oh even for you? Mr. Humilty as you describe yourself? haha Well unforutnately, you need the confidence to get that high ranked. Think of him as the top chess or poker player, since you like to keep bringing those up, and can't grasp the concept that cyber sports still require some coordination and muscle reflexes and the fact hes a cyber athelete.

If I had no respect for video games I would not play them at ALL. Cause I would be embarrassed to be associated with em. But here I am discussing the merits of being a gamer geek with with you! I have been a gamer geek for 35 years. If it weren't for my dedication and money spent in arcades back in the 80s, And I was one of the first kids to have Pong back in '72, You wouldn't even have the ability to tell me how wrong I am.

You haven't discussed any merits. At all, you just keep discussing how less respectable it is to other things in society. And that is why your generation and being part of the status quo, has been killing this industry for almost 20 years now into a total downward spiral starting in 2005. You are not in any way part of the reason video games got popular in the 80s. If you watched that frag documentary, you can learn how it really all started.

It was video gamers trying to play the arcades professionally or have official tournaments in the 80s that skyrocketed its popularity. Something you look down upon.


Yup, eventually my reflexes and eye sight will get to a point where I will not be able to keep up with younger eyes & response times. I'll be on the roads instead Good thing I have two children that I taught good sense to!

Oh good point, add good eyesight to the list of why MWO is a sport and why chess and poker aren't...lol

Edited by RichAC, 31 January 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[SmallPaws]

ELO aside, many of us have been playing for years and we still get paired up with complete noobs. Not to categorize many players as noobs, I just consider the ones who don't know how to pilot and know nothing about weapon systems are truly new to the game. This for a fact should not be occurring in such a team-based game and many other games have implemented simple factors that will help alleviate this issue, such as brackets for one.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 31 January 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

What is the reason you feel the need to publicly share that opinion? Can you answer that. If you tell me its not to try and convince anyone else to do the same, then you are being disingenuous.

They sure do get more respect. They have earned it. And by respecting their own game, they have made it tremendously popular and respected by many in society. Respect earns respect friend. Not money. And if not true anywhere else, its true for sports.

Oh ya your being really humble, talking about how you've been invovled in it for 30 years(like i care), talking about how things in the book or game are named after your family, bragging about how much money you make a year...haha ya...ok.

You said you made 1.6 million dollars last year, you cheap-o hahaha. Again, why try to convince others not to pay what they want? Theres only an obivous motive for posting that opinion on a public forum.

You trolling me on how MWO is nowhere near as respectable as pro sports says it all for me bud. PGI shouldn't trust anything you have to say. You think they developing something that is the least respectable thing to do in life.

Your being real humble again. And I guess you just assume people are too stupid to come to their own educated conclusions about their own budgets themselves....

What does cancer research have to do with MWO? Thats also has nothing to do with the game bud. Or are you again trying to say how much MWO is less respectable then other things in life. You made 1.6 mil, what is 800 dollars to you? lmao Your motives for your public comments are obvious to anyone. Its almost as if you are convincing people to only not pay for this game, but to not play it either. Because you feel there is more respectable things in life then playing games. Get lost already then guy! When you put your opinions out there publicly, you get responses back.

ya well your propaganda encourages that behavior.

I'm poor and in debt, I don't make 1.6 mil a year. I've donated what I can afford, but money does not make a sport or make it more respectable. Respecting the game makes the game respectable, and therefore more popular, which goes a longer way then your money.

Say it with me "false sense of entitlement" Poker and Chess are respected games, and MWO is not any less respectable. I've explained what makes a sport. Why are you even asking my position on this? I've been spamming the forums on what defines a sport, and your acting as if I've said osmething else....hahaha Coordination makes a sport. But any "game" can be competitive and require sportsmanhip.

I've been playing pc games since 1986. Yes my first pc game was a sports game, World Tour Golf by EA. on an 8080. IMO, it was sports games that made the pc popular and showed its graphical and play control potential far surpassed the atari and intellivision.

People like you are bad for any gaming community. To be heavily involved with something you don't even respect, is like a virus. I dont' care how much money you throw at it.

I wouldn't even use the word elevated...lol And so i guess you don't even respect MWO as much as chess or poker, since you keep bringing them up.

I can't, whether that makes you more respectful to other players I don't know. But it makes me more respectful to the game itself. Your statement makes you more suspicious then anything. As suspcious as your statement that you are honored by cheaters...

Are you showing you humility again? haha I think its more delusional. You think people are cheating because they think you in particular are too good? Once again its a random team game, and two, people cheat for many reasons. I can assure you it has nothing to do with you...hahaha. But I'm sure you already know all this...

Ya too bad most of society was more concerned with Princess Diana. We are talking about games, and how video games are the least respected by not only society, but by people like you who are invovled with them. Since there are so many more respectable things to do then play video games, why don't you go do some of them and stop dragging this game down in the mud by trolling me?

Exactly, and the only reason video games don't, is because of people like you.

This doesn't negate the fact sports provide jobs and bring people around the world together. Which is why the Olympics exist in the first place. Unity and freedom and people of different races, cultures and creeds coming together are what terrorist are against. Thats what the Olympica do.

Oh even for you? Mr. Humilty as you describe yourself? haha Well unforutnately, you need the confidence to get that high ranked. Think of him as the top chess or poker player, since you like to keep bringing those up, and can't grasp the concept that cyber sports still require some coordination and muscle reflexes and the fact hes a cyber athelete.

You haven't discussed any merits. At all, you just keep discussing how less respectable it is to other things in society. And that is why your generation and being part of the status quo, has been killing this industry for almost 20 years now into a total downward spiral starting in 2005. You are not in any way part of the reason video games got popular in the 80s. If you watched that frag documentary, you can learn how it really all started.

It was video gamers trying to play the arcades professionally or have official tournaments in the 80s that skyrocketed its popularity. Something you look down upon.

Oh good point, add good eyesight to the list of why MWO is a sport and why chess and poker aren't...lol

My reason is you feel that you have to share your opinion, which I found myself in disagreement with, So I shared my opinion just as you have. I have not insulted, threatened not in any way attempted to dissuade others from buying anything. I have said I would not, and I have said why I would not. That is called a discussion.

Exactly, I showed you disrespect once, by laughing at your position. After that I have been a pillar of respect. Even in the face of your attempts to egg me into disrespect. If you show me something they have done that deserves respect from me, Donations to charity, good behavior in public settings, respect of family and friends. I would be inclined to respect them too. The gang at Murphy's Law have my respect. They are a band of brothers that look after their friends, go out of their way to support one another in times of need. Heck they even go above and beyond when complaints are not even made!

Statements of fact. Do I ask for special treatment because of my involvement? Do I consider myself something above my place (ie a gamer)? I do take pride that my daughter is a named character in the game, That is HER achievement, and as a parent I should be proud. Does it mean anything more than "cool story bro." to you? That is up to you. My involvement in the history of the game, I put it out there and if you choose to mock it (as you just did) Well, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

I thought I said I made that over 20 years? I now have 21 years on the job... So I have a long way to go! I only point out that to me, $500 is to much for electronic pigment. If you can tell folks you think it is worth it, I am able to say that I think it is not, That sir is the point of freedom speech.

It is not trolling if it is how I actually feel. Now if I was doing it to just get a rise out of you... That would be trolling. Discussing and disagreeing are not the same as Trolling. Its called discussing.

Nope, but I will take a moment to remin them that the better deal is the $240 for 24 Omnis. This way the player gets more for their money. If they buy the Gold Mechs, I don't think any less of them. I believe that some of the Lawmen HAVE bought the Golden Omnis. They are my respected friends.
When you put your opinions out there publicly, you get responses back. If you don't want different opinions to be voiced...

Did we not, as a community, raise over $100,000 for cancer research in the name of one of our littlest Warriors? A movement I supported when it was a grass roots campaign by some of our members. I am very proud of our community for their charity. And have I asked you to stop giving your opinion? There is a difference between your approach and Mine, I disagree with you without telling you to stop cause folks don't need to here your opinion. I disagree with you. I say why, I let the masses make up their own mind.

I would think my "Propaganda" would encourage deciding which is the best choice for each player. If buying a color is worth it to you, I don't tell you to NOT spend the money, While you almost sound like you are insisting we all do. *Shrug* maybe I am misreading your intent.

I make 80-90 grand a year, I have a house note, 2 car notes, a daughter in collage a son with Autism. My priorities are obvious. If you are in debt, and you drop $500 on a pigment for a game, you are not thinking properly. If you have $500 laying around and want to buy gold color pixels... go ahead, but you can get more stuff for $240!

The false sense of entitlement is yours sir, If you think you deserve to be treated like a rock star cause you play a game.

I was playing video games more than a decade before you started! Playing WTG makes you a video gamer not a golfer, being good, or even great at it does not make a star like Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods. Not even close. Thinking it does is in fact showing signs of entitlement. If anything I am an believer in anti-entitlement. If you want respect, earn it, if you want to be thought of as an Athlete, play a sport or do something Athletic. Don't claim to be something you are not. I am a video gamer, I was once athletic but I stopped training in Martial Arts nearly 25 years ago.

I can respect something while maintaining proper perspective of what that something is. I do not need to delude myself that there is some greater worth in playing a game I like.

Actually they are in the same ballpark as those games. Even if I don't pla those games as often.

Perspective again. Your idea of respect and mine are very different, and that is fine. And if you cannot understand the psychology behind my perspective on cheaters, That is Ok also. You don't need to.

Actually yes I am showing Humility. I don't say they MUST cheat to beat me, that would be arrogant! But if someone is cheating against you to win, then they are saying you are to tough to beat fairly. See, I just put the shoe on your foot. Now you are the person that is being cheated against and the need to cheat makes You appear better than you may actually be.

Yes it was. Princess Diana did do a lot of great things though and was worthy of the concern that was shown...

Nobody give a {Scrap} about the Auto show when it is over. Not many people care about the Charitable things the auto companies do, Unless they are the folks that have received that charity.

You have a point, however there is also doping in the Olympics so my respect for the individual Olympian varies depending on the person. I don't give a blanket pass on respect.

I have my moments of arrogance, I know that. I do think of them as top in what they do, but what they do isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things. Did they cure cancer? End War or oppression? No? What did they do? They played a game better than anyone else! So they have earned respect for what the do. They play a game.

If kids like me didn't spend money on it, there wouldn't have been a push to to make it something to get even more money out of us.

Professional video gamers are not Athletes, just like tinkering on engines in your garage doesn't mean you a master mechanic.

Cause you can click a mouse and pretend you can shoot an M-16 doesn't mean you can hit a target at 500m on a rifle range. And even if you can, that doesn't mean you are a sniper. Thinking you have skillz cause you click a mouse good... is kinda insulting to those who actually do the stuff we pretend to do in games. I'm a 3 time rifle expert in real life, clicking a mouse and letting programming decide if I hit or miss... not the same thing.

SmallPaws, on 31 January 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

ELO aside, many of us have been playing for years and we still get paired up with complete noobs. Not to categorize many players as noobs, I just consider the ones who don't know how to pilot and know nothing about weapon systems are truly new to the game. This for a fact should not be occurring in such a team-based game and many other games have implemented simple factors that will help alleviate this issue, such as brackets for one.

So rookies should not be allowed on the field with veterans? Where does that ever hold true?

Also Elo does not work here cause winning and losing is determined on how well the team works together on a whole, So if I die in the first 2 minutes of the match an the team carries on without me to win do I deserve a bump up for their hard work?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 01 February 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[RichAC]

My reason is you feel that you have to share your opinion, which I found myself in disagreement with, So I shared my opinion just as you have. I have not insulted, threatened not in any way attempted to dissuade others from buying anything. I have said I would not, and I have said why I would not. That is called a discussion.

One can just check your profile to see you've been sharing your negative opinions way before I ever posted.

Exactly, I showed you disrespect once, by laughing at your position. After that I have been a pillar of respect. Even in the face of your attempts to egg me into disrespect. If you show me something they have done that deserves respect from me, Donations to charity, good behavior in public settings, respect of family and friends. I would be inclined to respect them too. The gang at Murphy's Law have my respect. They are a band of brothers that look after their friends, go out of their way to support one another in times of need. Heck they even go above and beyond when complaints are not even made!

By saying Sports are more respectable then MWO, you show your disrespect to the game. Again your saying here, "They" as in PGI do not deserve your respect. Well thats unfortunate. I wish you'd keep your comments to yourself, instead of trying to selfishly sabotage this game. In reality there is nothing they can do to earn your respect, because playing video games in general is something that is not respectable to you.

Statements of fact. Do I ask for special treatment because of my involvement? Do I consider myself something above my place (ie a gamer)? I do take pride that my daughter is a named character in the game, That is HER achievement, and as a parent I should be proud. Does it mean anything more than "cool story bro." to you? That is up to you. My involvement in the history of the game, I put it out there and if you choose to mock it (as you just did) Well, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Then keep it to yourself, I don't care, your family is one of the reasons this genre has been unpopular all these years. And I thought it was your achievement according to you not hers. Your involvement in the history of the game is unfortunate and ruined its future.

I thought I said I made that over 20 years? I now have 21 years on the job... So I have a long way to go! I only point out that to me, $500 is to much for electronic pigment. If you can tell folks you think it is worth it, I am able to say that I think it is not, That sir is the point of freedom speech.

I thought you said in one year.... Whether its worth it or not is not up to you. But i commend the people that do buy it and thank them for keeping a game I like to play alive. I would encourage people who can afford it to buy it.

It is not trolling if it is how I actually feel. Now if I was doing it to just get a rise out of you... That would be trolling. Discussing and disagreeing are not the same as Trolling. Its called discussing.

When your only objective is to show how little respect video games deserve, in a video game forum, its definitely trolling. Get lost already, go play the board game if thats more respectable lol.

Nope, but I will take a moment to remin them that the better deal is the $240 for 24 Omnis. This way the player gets more for their money. If they buy the Gold Mechs, I don't think any less of them. I believe that some of the Lawmen HAVE bought the Golden Omnis. They are my respected friends.
When you put your opinions out there publicly, you get responses back. If you don't want different opinions to be voiced...

This is the first time you ever mentioned 240$ for Omnis. But I don't assume people are too stupid to figure out their own budget. PGI has been pretty upfront and honest about it. And when there has been countless threads of people asking the community to boycott the golden mechs, you don't seem any different. I bet you would only approve if it gave some advantage in game haha.

Did we not, as a community, raise over $100,000 for cancer research in the name of one of our littlest Warriors? A movement I supported when it was a grass roots campaign by some of our members. I am very proud of our community for their charity. And have I asked you to stop giving your opinion? There is a difference between your approach and Mine, I disagree with you without telling you to stop cause folks don't need to here your opinion. I disagree with you. I say why, I let the masses make up their own mind.

And yet you still think playing video games is something less respectable then playing other sports. Shame on you. My opinions are propaganda supporting the game, yours drag it in the mud.

I would think my "Propaganda" would encourage deciding which is the best choice for each player. If buying a color is worth it to you, I don't tell you to NOT spend the money, While you almost sound like you are insisting we all do. *Shrug* maybe I am misreading your intent.

You are just persuading people to not buy 500 dollar gold mechs is what your donig. Because as you keep saying PGI has not earned your respect, and video games are not something thats respectable in the first place.

I make 80-90 grand a year, I have a house note, 2 car notes, a daughter in collage a son with Autism. My priorities are obvious. If you are in debt, and you drop $500 on a pigment for a game, you are not thinking properly. If you have $500 laying around and want to buy gold color pixels... go ahead, but you can get more stuff for $240!

Noone needs you to do their thinking for them buddy.

The false sense of entitlement is yours sir, If you think you deserve to be treated like a rock star cause you play a game.

I'm only an avg gamer, Avg player, the Rockstars are guys whos skill's are like Jordan above the avg basketball players. Your just out of touch, and you need to go back to rolling the dice in board games,

I was playing video games more than a decade before you started! Playing WTG makes you a video gamer not a golfer, being good, or even great at it does not make a star like Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods. Not even close. Thinking it does is in fact showing signs of entitlement. If anything I am an believer in anti-entitlement. If you want respect, earn it, if you want to be thought of as an Athlete, play a sport or do something Athletic. Don't claim to be something you are not. I am a video gamer, I was once athletic but I stopped training in Martial Arts nearly 25 years ago.

More false sense of entitlement...

I can respect something while maintaining proper perspective of what that something is. I do not need to delude myself that there is some greater worth in playing a game I like.

What your saying here is you don't respect video games...

Actually they are in the same ballpark as those games. Even if I don't pla those games as often.

What separates video games, from board games, and games like chess and poker, is good eyesight, hand eye coordination, reflexes and muscle memory.

Perspective again. Your idea of respect and mine are very different, and that is fine. And if you cannot understand the psychology behind my perspective on cheaters, That is Ok also. You don't need to.

I don't think it is actually. You basically respect cheaters. Shame on you. You think we should all be honored by them, your a virus to any sport.

Actually yes I am showing Humility. I don't say they MUST cheat to beat me, that would be arrogant! But if someone is cheating against you to win, then they are saying you are to tough to beat fairly. See, I just put the shoe on your foot. Now you are the person that is being cheated against and the need to cheat makes You appear better than you may actually be.

You lost me again man. First you say they don't have to cheat, then you go ony saying that when the shoe is on the other foot, and someone is cheating against you, you need to cheat back? Well you gave one reason why alot of people cheat, the false perception they are being cheated against or that "everyone does it why shouldn't I" delusion. But I definitely don't encourage that. Nor am I honored by that....I find it despicable.

Nobody give a {Scrap} about the Auto show when it is over. Not many people care about the Charitable things the auto companies do, Unless they are the folks that have received that charity.

haha, you used as an example of something that is more respectable then sports and now your flipflopping, ya your not trolling me at all.... Sports are more entertaining of course, especially since stats are recorded. But noone cares about the charities they donate to either except the people that receive the charity. of course...thats not the point.

You have a point, however there is also doping in the Olympics so my respect for the individual Olympian varies depending on the person. I don't give a blanket pass on respect.

Your supposed to give blanket respect to the Olympics in general! Just like you should for MWO, I dont' even see many people cheating in this game, your delusional!

I have my moments of arrogance, I know that. I do think of them as top in what they do, but what they do isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things. Did they cure cancer? End War or oppression? No? What did they do? They played a game better than anyone else! So they have earned respect for what the do. They play a game.

Again, this "discussion" is about pro sports and competitive games, compared to video games in particular MWO. Can you stop trolling about other things that have nothing to do with video games?

If kids like me didn't spend money on it, there wouldn't have been a push to to make it something to get even more money out of us.

Its more about FANS spending money on it that make it popular. For example, when kids from your generation, were playing competitively, and in awe of the Jordans of video games, or the rock star gamers from their neighborhoods they wanted to watch and learn from. Thats what made the arcades popular. Not people like you buddy.

Professional video gamers are not Athletes, just like tinkering on engines in your garage doesn't mean you a master mechanic.

First of all someone who makes money on tinkering with engines is a "professional" mechanic. someone who doesn't is still a mechanic. Again you think it boils down to money, which means you are nothing but somebody who would corrupt a sport...

Cause you can click a mouse and pretend you can shoot an M-16 doesn't mean you can hit a target at 500m on a rifle range. And even if you can, that doesn't mean you are a sniper. Thinking you have skillz cause you click a mouse good... is kinda insulting to those who actually do the stuff we pretend to do in games. I'm a 3 time rifle expert in real life, clicking a mouse and letting programming decide if I hit or miss... not the same thing.

hahaha Its not about killing people tough guy....I've shot rifles too, some of my neighbors have had M-16's....but.shooting guns is a sport too, because it requires all the physical traits fps games do. But vice versa, someone who can shoot an M-16, doesn't mean they can come anywhere near fatal1ty in quake.

So rookies should not be allowed on the field with veterans? Where does that ever hold true?

Here we go again, talking about soldiers and war as if it has anything to do with video games and sports.....sigh...

Also Elo does not work here cause winning and losing is determined on how well the team works together on a whole, So if I die in the first 2 minutes of the match an the team carries on without me to win do I deserve a bump up for their hard work?

Exactly, and so here you are now agreeing with me, Yet I bet you will troll me some more with posts about Mother Teresa and American Soldiers at war.

We all know they are not comparable and deserve a higher respect. So Why you don't stop disrespecting them by bringing them up on a forum discussion about video games and sports.

Regarding the OP, I think the biggest issues is a small playerbase, and possibly we wouldn't notice much difference even if PGI added dmg and K/D to the w/l ELO equation, like i was suggesting. So lets not turn off any more players with resentful comments. PGI is great imo, and no other FPS game has the mech mechanics and matchmaker and is not p2w.(the spacing in this post has a mind of its own)

Edited by RichAC, 01 February 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well I went and wrote a long thoughtful post replying to you Rich, but the interwebz ate it!

Long and short, What you find respectable will not be considered respectable by all. Those differing opinions have as much legitimacy as yours does and as such are not disrespectful. UNLESS the language used is. I have had a long any joyous time playing the TT and video games from this IP. I have been and personally still am a Beta tester. As I don't have Clan opponents, or planets to concur, I do not think I am yet playing the MW:O game I was told I will be. I still have respect that there will be more to this game than what we have now. But until that time, I am still giving my input on an incomplete game that I was asked to start testing back in 2012. I have been a playtester for a few Heavy Metal Pro programs and TT game rules for this IP for 12 years. So if the DEVs don't want my opinion on this forum, they have the power to stop me from taking up bandwidth. Until such a time as they strike me from the roles, I will always say what I mean, mean what I say and, as often as I can, prove it.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 February 2014 - 06:12 AM.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 February 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Well I went and wrote a long thoughtful post replying to you Rich, but the interwebz ate it!

Long and short, What you find respectable will not be considered respectable by all. Those differing opinions have as much legitimacy as yours does and as such are not disrespectful. UNLESS the language used is. I have had a long any joyous time playing the TT and video games from this IP. I have been and personally still am a Beta tester. As I don't have Clan opponents, or planets to concur, I do not think I am yet playing the MW:O game I was told I will be. I still have respect that there will be more to this game than what we have now. But until that time, I am still giving my input on an incomplete game that I was asked to start testing back in 2012. I have been a playtester for a few Heavy Metal Pro programs and TT game rules for this IP for 12 years. So if the DEVs don't want my opinion on this forum, they have the power to stop me from taking up bandwidth. Until such a time as they strike me from the roles, I will always say what I mean, mean what I say and, as often as I can, prove it.

For people to be so heavily involved with something they don't even respect, naturally ensures it will not be respectable to others. I think its a sense of false entitlement, bitterness and selfishness.

Devs relying on people like you has been the problem with this industry for years.

Take ID software and quakelive for example. They never made money on a game that is the grandfather of fps multiplayers and e-sports. Not because noone wanted to play it, but because they catered to a bunch of tier slumming, team stacking cheaters who hated stats and undermined the rating system, with Id's help, because they didn't want to treat the game with the same respect as a sport. Or kids matching up in a local neighborhood park. So everybody quit.

The quakelive devs, people that could feed their families off that game, felt the same way as you do and its shameful. . Devs should also not be playing favorites with family and friends.

John Carmack himself was so upset in 2011 that he admitted the game was losing money and refused to even talk about it. You could see the pain in his face. I feel so bad for the guy. He prolly loves that game and played it himself. Their playerbase just continued to nosedive, when instead they could of paved the future for video games, be a leader again with their ground breaking rating and tiering system. But they didn't have the passion for it at all or the respect for their own game. So the community convinced them to undermine themselves.

Its Probably only online for friends and family that were probably the problem in the first place. JC finally left ID a few months ago, so did Id's President, and their future doesn't look bright. Its not surprising. Or maybe its time for a changing of the guard.

I don't want to see PGI go down the same path as ID and most PC game developers. These are tough times with the type of communities that exist online. For everyone not just games... I won't even go into it. But I think PGI is doing a great job for what little resources and playerbase they have, and the game is very fair and competitive. And different enough to fill a real niche. But it all depends on the community.

Edited by RichAC, 03 February 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[Roadkill]

RichAC, on 03 February 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

respect

You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 03 February 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

For people to be so heavily involved with something they don't even respect, naturally ensures it will not be respectable to others. I think its a sense of false entitlement, bitterness and selfishness.

Devs relying on people like you has been the problem with this industry for years.

Take ID software and quakelive for example. They never made money on a game that is the grandfather of fps multiplayers and e-sports. Not because noone wanted to play it, but because they catered to a bunch of tier slumming, team stacking cheaters who hated stats and undermined the rating system, with Id's help, because they didn't want to treat the game with the same respect as a sport. Or kids matching up in a local neighborhood park. So everybody quit.

The quakelive devs, people that could feed their families off that game, felt the same way as you do and its shameful. . Devs should also not be playing favorites with family and friends.

John Carmack himself was so upset in 2011 that he admitted the game was losing money and refused to even talk about it. You could see the pain in his face. I feel so bad for the guy. He prolly loves that game and played it himself. Their playerbase just continued to nosedive, when instead they could of paved the future for video games, be a leader again with their ground breaking rating and tiering system. But they didn't have the passion for it at all or the respect for their own game. So the community convinced them to undermine themselves.

Its Probably only online for friends and family that were probably the problem in the first place. JC finally left ID a few months ago, so did Id's President, and their future doesn't look bright. Its not surprising. Or maybe its time for a changing of the guard.

I don't want to see PGI go down the same path as ID and most PC game developers. These are tough times with the type of communities that exist online. For everyone not just games... I won't even go into it. But I think PGI is doing a great job for what little resources and playerbase they have, and the game is very fair and competitive. And different enough to fill a real niche. But it all depends on the community.

You just don't understand how respect works. Providing feedback like a yesman is not showing respect.
Saying, "$500 Gold Mechs is awesome."

When you actually think, "4 Mechs for double the price of 24, does not look like a Bargin." Is not disrespectful. It is telling the truth, and doing that is the ultimate form of respect. Asking $500 for 1/6 the product of the $240 pack is being disrespectful to us the customer. So if they are willing to be be blood sucking vampires, I am willing to let in some sun light. The complaints about the pricing got the DEVs to change the pricing on the Clan Package. That was a good thing cause they now will get money they would not have gotten if they did not respect the players that play their game.

Did Mr Carmack attempt to listen to the people playing his game? You make a product to sell to the masses, and if the masses stop buying your product, you need to think, "Why is it they stopped?" If you really listen to your customers, and give them a quality product that they enjoy, You will never hurt for money.

But if you say your product will be X, And then make it Y, you have lied to your customers. We were told NO coolant flush, we have coolant flush. we were told no 3PV, then we were told no mixed views, We have 3PV all in one Que. I rib the DEVs on it cause I know you have a hard time keeping promises when your objective is to sell a product. I will have more respect for someone that tells me to my face they don't like me, than I will for a person who pretends to be a friend, all the while stabbing me in the back. I love my wife even when she is insulting my old and worn wool duster, she is only giving me her opinion, and that shows she cares enough to tell me that she feels I am making a mistake.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 February 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

It all boils down to passion. Passionate people don't think, they react.

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 04 February 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

It all boils down to passion. Passionate people don't think, they react.

This scares me, cause I am quite a passionate person. I do understand your point though.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

You just don't understand how respect works. Providing feedback like a yesman is not showing respect.
Saying, "$500 Gold Mechs is awesome."

500 dollar gold mechs have nothing to do with gameplay. They have been upfront saying it is only cosmetic. If you don't want to donate to the game then don't. Trying to tell people they shouldn't, under some delusional impression that will make PGI work harder, is disgusting imo.

Quote

When you actually think, "4 Mechs for double the price of 24, does not look like a Bargin." Is not disrespectful. It is telling the truth, and doing that is the ultimate form of respect. Asking $500 for 1/6 the product of the $240 pack is being disrespectful to us the customer. So if they are willing to be be blood sucking vampires, I am willing to let in some sun light. The complaints about the pricing got the DEVs to change the pricing on the Clan Package. That was a good thing cause they now will get money they would not have gotten if they did not respect the players that play their game.

You didn't bring up the 240 dollar pack until this thread. Which isn't much cheaper lol. And again, people are not as dumb as you think bud. Noone needs your advice. If some rich guy wants to donate to the struggling game, to keep it going. I would encourage him because I enjoy playing this game.

Quote

Did Mr Carmack attempt to listen to the people playing his game? You make a product to sell to the masses, and if the masses stop buying your product, you need to think, "Why is it they stopped?" If you really listen to your customers, and give them a quality product that they enjoy, You will never hurt for money.

The problem is the were listening to the community. A community full of some sense of false entitlement that were not welcoming to newcomers, and undermined the spirit of fair play and competition out of selfishness. A community of people like you.

Now that they are adding turrets to bases, it seems PGI is going down the same path...lol Adding turrets to bases people already avoid like the plague? Because they were listening to this small tiny community, that most of society does not want to associate with. A community that is against fair play and competition, that is convincing PGI to sabotage its own game. A community of sync droppers too scared to play 12 man because hey suck or just resent the fact the game is not true to canon. Or maybe its just human nature, I don't know, but this is disappointing to me.

I just hope this community isn't a microcosm of what represents the USA to the rest of the world, cause our countries future will be looking bleak if this is the only type of person who gets involved.

Quote

But if you say your product will be X, And then make it Y, you have lied to your customers. We were told NO coolant flush, we have coolant flush. we were told no 3PV, then we were told no mixed views, We have 3PV all in one Que. I rib the DEVs on it cause I know you have a hard time keeping promises when your objective is to sell a product. I will have more respect for someone that tells me to my face they don't like me, than I will for a person who pretends to be a friend, all the while stabbing me in the back. I love my wife even when she is insulting my old and worn wool duster, she is only giving me her opinion, and that shows she cares enough to tell me that she feels I am making a mistake.

So this is where your resentment boils down to? Well I guess I joined the game late. I happen to like coolant flush. As long as the game does not become p2w I don't have a problem with anything. Though I don't know what any of this has to do with golden mechs...

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

1)500 dollar gold mechs have nothing to do with gameplay. They have been upfront saying it is only cosmetic. If you don't want to donate to the game then don't. Trying to tell people they shouldn't, under some delusional impression that will make PGI work harder, is disgusting imo.



2)You didn't bring up the 240 dollar pack until this thread. And again, people are not as dumb as you think bud. Noone needs your advice.



3)The problem is the were listening to the community. A community full of some sense of false entitlement that were not welcoming to newcomers, and undermined the spirit of fair play and competition out of selfishness. A community of people like you. Is having a Glod fleece on a mech help a player or is having more Mechs and money to spare on other features better for the community member? My way they have at least three choices.

4)Now that they are adding turrets to baes, it seems PGI is going down the same path...lol Adding turrets to bases people already avoid like the plauge? Because they were listening to this small tiny community, that most of society does not want to associate with. I just hope this community isn't a microcosm of what represents the USA to the rest of the world, cause our countries future will be looking bleak too!



5)So this is where your resentment boils down to? Well I guess I joined the game late. I happen to like coolant flush. As long as the game does not become p2w I don't have a problem. Though I don't know what any of this has to do with golden mechs...

1)And I Keep saying for $500 a player would be better to get the $240 Omni package and $260 of MC. It would be a better deal for the player all around, and PGI would still get $500!

2)Cause I was saying what I felt about the issue of a $500 skin. Which all puns intended it is a Fleecing. There are better ways to spend that money on this game. I already have spent almost double that amount.

3) And if we are listening to this community we have more than one opinion to consider, which give members a wider range of information to consider. Much better for the customer.

4) We got coolant flush, 3PV and Turrets from the community, I didn't care enough about flush to o more than say I probably wouldn't use it. 3PV I didn't like after seeing how the ability broke 4th wall. As to teh microcsm... We would have a US that has an ability to say what they feel is right and not be brow beat by a minority group... Oh wait! That is exactly what you are trying to do to me.

5)Golden Mechs will have no impact on the game at all compared to their non golden siblings, which is why I think it is a better choice to get more baubles for our money. I mean to me Id rather have 10 $40k cars than a single one of these. Is my opinion really going to stop you from getting one if you want it?

[Khobai]

Quote

1)And I Keep saying for $500 a player would be better to get the $240 Omni package and $260 of MC. It would be a better deal for the player all around, and PGI would still get $500!

$500 wouldve been justified if you got the gold skin, the masakari pack, and 60,000 MC ($250 of MC)

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

The problem is the were listening to the community. A community full of some sense of false entitlement that were not welcoming to newcomers, and undermined the spirit of fair play and competition out of selfishness. A community of people like you.

Quote

I happen to like coolant flush.

You do realize that you've just admitted to liking what's esentially a cheat (even though it's an official one) and cast yourself as a card-carrying member of the "community" that "undermines the spirit of fair play and competition out of selfishness", right?

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 04 February 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

You do realize that you've just admitted to liking what's esentially a cheat (even though it's an official one) and cast yourself as a card-carrying member of the "community" that "undermines the spirit of fair play and competition out of selfishness", right?

Your only a cheater when you undermine what the devs intended with the game. Coolant Flush is available to everyone.

By that same delusional token, you can call someone a cheat for using anything or any type of loadout in the game...lmao Am I a cheater for using an AC20? There is a serious disconnect when people don't even know what cheating is in MWO, and that worries me.

There is no question if you are using 3rd party software or hardware for options not part of the game or described in the game manual or tutorials or official forum threads, your a cheater.

Macros are part of some games, but not MWO. Its cheating because it is not part of the game available to everyone. I bet you and Joseph would be ok with it, if it was only available to people who paid real money for it haha.

Sync dropping undermines the ELO system and match maker, and I also consider it cheating. There is a reason random matches are supposed to be random. There is a reason they only have 4 or 12 man queues. You have no sense of sportsmanship if you don't understand why. One reason is they have to match people up by ELO and by premades. They can't do this when they don't have enough of the same number of teams.

And I don't care how often it works as the cheater intends, it is still cheating. These same people who are saying its only to play with friends, and not because they don't want to practice 12 mans, will be found hypocrites when they realize CW will not be any different for them then the 12 mans they get stomped in, and Private matches give them no rewards.

They will still be sync dropping away.....like the lamers they are.

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[RichAC]

Khobai, on 04 February 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

$500 wouldve been justified if you got the gold skin, the masakari pack, and 60,000 MC ($250 of MC)

Whats worth it is a relative value. They can't just ask for donations without giving something...lol Consider it a donation and get over it. I thank the people who buy them because they are keeping this game alive.

II'm so glad PGI is giving people options for big donations without affecting gameplay. The fact this game is not pay to win is one of its biggest selling points. I salute them for that.

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[RichAC]

You know what I give up on this game, maybe your right about PGI> I'm not even going to defend them anymore.

I just loaded the game, and the graphics quality looks totally disgusting and its running 10 fps lower for me. I'm in a state of total shock.

First i read about turrets in assault bases, and now the game look and runs like utter garbage for me at 1600x900 resolution. I've never seen anything like this, I don't think I will be playing anymore.

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Your only a cheater when you undermine what the devs intended with the game. Coolant Flush is available to everyone.

A cheat is smply something that makes game easier than it's supposed to be. Whether it's endorsed by developer or not is irrelevant. I.e. MW4 officially had unlimited ammo and no heat modes, but the fact that those options were introduced by Microsoft doesn't make them any less of a cheat.

Quote

There is a serious disconnect when people don't even know what cheating is in MWO, and that worries me.

You really should be more worried about your lack of understanding what the word "cheat" means.

Quote

There is no question if you are using 3rd party software or hardware for options not part of the game or described in the game manual or tutorials or official forum threads, your a cheater.

Really? Even if developers of said game are perfectly fine with that? Seems to contradict your earlier statement that it ain't a cheat if it's official.

Quote

Macros are part of some games, but not MWO. Its cheating because it is not part of the game available to everyone. I bet you and Joseph would be ok with it, if it was only available to people who paid real money for it haha.

Last time I checked, AHK was free and available to everyone. Not to mention that these days most gamers have in-built macro capability either in the keyboard or in the mouse (or both).

Quote

Sync dropping undermines the ELO system and match maker, and I also consider it cheating. There is a reason random matches are supposed to be random.

That's something we both agree on.

Quote

There is a reason they only have 4 or 12 man queues. You have no sense of sportsmanship if you don't understand why. One reason is they have to match people up by ELO and by premades.

Why don't you elaborate what exactly was the reason for PGI (or any other game developer for that matter) not accommodating group sizes of 5 to 11 and what does it have to do with sportsmanship?

Quote

They can't do this when they don't have enough of the same number of teams.

This part I don't even understand, sorry. What do you mean by "enough of the same number of teams"?

Quote

And I don't care how often it works as the cheater intends, it is still cheating. These same people who are saying its only to play with friends, and not because they don't want to practice 12 mans, will be found hypocrites when they realize CW will not be any different for them then the 12 mans they get stomped in, and Private matches give them no rewards.

What do you suggest they do with the current setup? A group of, let's say, 7 people doesn't have enough for 12 mans and can't drop together anywhere else. The problem is not the players - it's PGI's decision to split the queues in the weirdest way imaginable, and it's up to PGI to fix the issue by providing thos groups with a separate place to drop in.

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 04 February 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

A cheat is smply something that makes game easier than it's supposed to be. Whether it's endorsed by developer or not is irrelevant. I.e. MW4 officially had unlimited ammo and no heat modes, but the fact that those options were introduced by Microsoft doesn't make them any less of a cheat.

Totally wrong. Its up to the devs, they made the game not you bud.

Quote

You really should be more worried about your lack of understanding what the word "cheat" means.

your the one who lacks the understanding.

Quote

Really? Even if developers of said game are perfectly fine with that? Seems to contradict your earlier statement that it ain't a cheat if it's official.

show me the link.... The only official post I ever saw myself, was on these forums, from a dev not a mod, about Sync Dropping, and how they admitted that it does undermine the game but they appreciate the community effort. So not condoning or condemning and a real political statement. After we get private matches, there really is no excuse anymore.

They have also been quoted, and I can't find the quote now, about investigating sync droppers in the last may or june tourney sometime, and found no evidence people were sync dropping to affect the out come of games. But you can read threads about it on here, and watch youtube videos of people doing it. But I don't know how they can hard evidence of the people in the tourney anyways. They did, however, state they were plannig on banning some stat padders from future events. Which, ironically, were sync dropping lol.

As for macros, I never saw an offical dev post about anything regarding macros.

Quote

Last time I checked, AHK was free and available to everyone. Not to mention that these days most gamers have in-built macro capability either in the keyboard or in the mouse (or both).

Its available to everyone as a game option in games, such as many rpg games. Not in MWO. And I bet to differ about **** people, most people don't and in fact mostly the only ones that do is with special mice they have purchased.

Quote

Why don't you elaborate what exactly was the reason for PGI (or any other game developer for that matter) not accommodating group sizes of 5 to 11 and what does it have to do with sportsmanship?

Because, as I've said, the main reason is not enough of those number teams for the matchmaker to match up with. And if you had sportsmanship, you would know always severely outnumbering random players in a pug with a premade makes matches less competitive.

Quote

This part I don't even understand, sorry. What do you mean by "enough of the same number of teams"?

read above, same number premades I meant. Even if the matchmaker is not trying to match up by ELO, weight and premades, there are enough 4 man premades to go around. More so then there would be higher then that. Still it can make matches uncompetitive, but it would be 10x worse with 8 players of the same premade. Also increasing teamsize from 8 to 12 players also helped with this issue.

Quote

What do you suggest they do with the current setup? A group of, let's say, 7 people doesn't have enough for 12 mans and can't drop together anywhere else. The problem is not the players - it's PGI's decision to split the queues in the weirdest way imaginable, and it's up to PGI to fix the issue by providing thos groups with a separate place to drop in.

Well here is where we will see who is for real and who is hypocrite. Private matches, which they plan to implement will allow players to set up on their own matches. Instead of syncdropping with 30 players. they all can play together by themselves in a private match.

But imo, they will not like this, because it will not give them any rewards, and it shoudln't. So they will be back to syncdropping, because in reality, the truth is, they are not doing it to simply "play with friends" they are looking for an easy way to score cbills... Which is not what the developers intended, which I consider cheating.

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 03:30 PM.