633 replies to this topic

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

show me the link.... The only official post I ever saw myself, was on these forums, from a dev not a mod, about Sync Dropping, and how they admitted that it does undermine the game but they appreciate the community effort. So not condoning or condemning and a real political statement. After we get private matches, there really is no excuse anymore.

Dude, are you all right? What does sync dropping has to do with use of 3rd party software/hardware? And what link are you asking for - an example of a game devs allowing use of 3rd party parsers, macros, etc?

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As for macros, I never saw an offical dev post about anything regarding macros.

In other words, you've never read the official code of conduct, yet you engage in a debate regarding what's cheating and what's not...well played sir, well played.

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Its available to everyone as a game option in games, such as many rpg games. Not in MWO.

AHK is not available in MWO? In what way exactly?

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And I bet to differ about **** people, most people don't and in fact mostly the only ones that do is with special mice they have purchased.

Which is why I said "gamers" instead of "people" - gaming mice / keyboards are extremely common in the gaming community these days.

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Because, as I've said, the main reason is not enough of those number teams for the matchmaker to match up with.

It's not a valid reason at all - there should be a separate solo-only queue and a separate group-only queue, which is padded by solo players that have chosen to play with teams (via game options). The number of N-man teams currently in the queue makes no difference whatsoever, as even if there's only one it can be matched against (N-1)-man team + 1 solo player. Not to mention that teams can be allowed to be uneven, which makes the whole thing even easier.

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And if you had sportsmanship, you would know always severely outnumbering random players in a pug with a premade makes matches less competitive.

What in a world does giving those premades a separate place to go to has to do with lack of sportsmanship and/or outnumbering pugs? If anything, it would fix the premade vs. randoms issue, because those premades wouldn't be in the same queue.

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Well here is where we will see who is for real and who is hypocrite. Private matches, which they plan to implement will allow players to set up on their own matches. Instead of syncdropping with 30 players. they all can play together by themselves in a private match.

I hope you're right, but this remains to be seen. Also, it's not clear how it will fit into CW - people having to make a choice between being able to play with friends and participating in CW wouldn't make for a good setup.

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But imo, they will not like this, because it will not give them any rewards, and it shoudln't. So they will be back to syncdropping, because in reality, the truth is, they are not doing it to simply "play with friends" they are looking for an easy way to score cbills... Which is not what the developers intended, which I consider cheating.

Just take my word for it - nobody on competitive teams gives a broken dime about "rewards". Veteran players are sitting on way too much XP and c-bills to even pay attention to that stuff. I'd sooner buy the story about people sync-dropping just because they are mean and evil, and want to bully pugs than the story about farming rewards.

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 04 February 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Dude, are you all right? What does sync dropping has to do with use of 3rd party software/hardware? And what link are you asking for - an example of a game devs allowing use of 3rd party parsers, macros, etc?

Those are not the only things considered cheating. Did you not even read my previous post? And yes, of course thats the link I'm asking for. Your saying those things are condoned by the devs.

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In other words, you've never read the official code of conduct, yet you engage in a debate regarding what's cheating and what's not...well played sir, well played.

lol, and what in the code of conduct contradicts anything I have said?

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AHK is not available in MWO? In what way exactly?

In what way is it? Are you ok man? Because I haven't seen the macro game option anywhere..haha

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Which is why I said "gamers" instead of "people" - gaming mice / keyboards are extremely common in the gaming community these days.

Not as common as you think. And not described in any tutorial or game manual.

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It's not a valid reason at all - there should be a separate solo-only queue and a separate group-only queue, which is padded by solo players that have chosen to play with teams (via game options). The number of N-man teams currently in the queue makes no difference whatsoever, as even if there's only one it can be matched against (N-1)-man team + 1 solo player. Not to mention that teams can be allowed to be uneven, which makes the whole thing even easier.

Is this your way of saying cheating is ok and you have no sense of sportsmanship? Its harder to match up premades with 8 playerss, or w/e number, when there is not enough premades with the same amount. Thats why it is not an option.

When it is limited to only 4 people, it is much fairer. Whether they are even matched up by premade or not, there is enough of them to go around to even it out. This is all common sense, to make it complicated is suspect.

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What in a world does giving those premades a separate place to go to has to do with lack of sportsmanship and/or outnumbering pugs? If anything, it would fix the premade vs. randoms issue, because those premades wouldn't be in the same queue.

There is not enough of a playerbase, to match 7v7 or 6v6 or w/e number in a premade. No solo player would choose to go play with a bunch of premades versus random teams. Again, you have no understanding of not only sportsmanship, but human nature. Also why spend time developing for something so ridiculous? PGI is giving them private matches. If they want to earn cbills they should have to play in a ranked match. Which will be matched by ELO. If they want to play with more then 4 players, play a clan match, its that simple.

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I hope you're right, but this remains to be seen. Also, it's not clear how it will fit into CW - people having to make a choice between being able to play with friends and participating in CW wouldn't make for a good setup.

You can still play with friends and form a 4 man. People sync drop with dozens of players at a time. They could play 12 mans if they want but they don't. Ironically, There is so little teams they would prolly all be playing each other most of the time. lol. CW won't be any different for them. In fact it will be worse because they won't even be able to go in a pu with a 4 man.

But PGI will have private matches soon and they can all play together that way. But the issue is not really playing with friends, its trying to get uncompetitive matches for easy cbills. So if PGI keeps the game fair, these players will be sorely disappointed and continue to syncdrop, and their lame excuse that they want to play with friends will become hypocritical.

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Just take my word for it - nobody on competitive teams gives a broken dime about "rewards". Veteran players are sitting on way too much XP and c-bills to even pay attention to that stuff. I'd sooner buy the story about people sync-dropping just because they are mean and evil, and want to bully pugs than the story about farming rewards.

Or the fact they are just sore losers. Some players do have like 80 mechs, but I also don't buy that story, but that is the one repeated time and time again. I also don't buy the story about wanting to play with friends....

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 06:26 PM.

[RichAC]

Oh i just clicked on the spoiler "Players CAN use keybinding macros and gaming hardware which require user input to trigger during a match and do not otherwise fully automate gameplay."

Its like PGI is keeping this hidden. I think they should add a macro option and program to the game itself for everyone to use like rpgs do, just like keybindings.........but I guess macros are legal.

I still think syncdroppers are ruining this game though.

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

In what way is it? Are you ok man? Because I haven't seen the macro game option anywhere..haha

You might want to look up what AHK is before you continue with that argument. It got absolutely nothing to do with in-game options of any kind in any game.

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Not as common as you think. And not described in any tutorial or game manual.

Why would you expect hardware capabilities of a keyboard or mouse to be described in a game manual? Those are described in manuals and tutorials for the device in question.

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Is this your way of saying cheating is ok and you have no sense of sportsmanship? Its harder to match up premades with 8 playerss, or w/e number, when there is not enough premades with the same amount. Thats why it is not an option.

Did you even read the part you quoted? I've explained how to do it and it's not hard at all.

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There is not enough of a playerbase, to match 7v7 or 6v6 or w/e number in a premade.

But there is enough to match 12v12? In other words, your story is that there are enough players to make bigger teams, but not enough to make smaller ones and you are sticking to it?

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No solo player would choose to go play with a bunch of premades versus random teams. Again, you have no understanding of not only sportsmanship, but human nature.

I would and I'll give you a hint - there is one specific reason why someone would want to go solo into a team queue and drop with an established team that happens to be missing a pilot and that reason has something to do with unit recruitment. I'll let your uncanny understanding of sportsmanship and human nature help you figure it out.

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Also why spend time developing for something so ridiculous? PGI is giving them private matches. If they want to earn cbills they should have to play in a ranked match. Which will be matched by ELO. If they want to play with more then 4 players, play a clan match, its that simple.

Because private matches are going to be separate from CW (to teh best of my knowledge at least) and team size restriction along the lines of 1,2,3,4,12 with nothing between 4 and 12 is kind of silly.

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You can still play with friends and form a 4 man.

And if I happen to have 5 friends, I'll have to tell 2 of them to get lost?

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But PGI will have private matches soon and they can all play together that way. But the issue is not really playing with friends, its trying to get uncompetitive matches for easy cbills.

Players who have been playing since close beta are sitting on hundreds of millions c-bills, if not over a billion already (thanks to removal of repair and rearm feature). Now tell me, why would someone with dozens of mechs and that much in-game currency care about "easy c-bills"? Just to see that number increase?

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Or the fact they are just sore losers. Some players do have like 80 mechs, but I also don't buy that story, but that is the one repeated time and time again. I also don't buy the story about wanting to play with friends....

Why don't you buy that story? Cash flow has been positive for a very long time, you only gain c-bills, you never lose them. Some people like to collect mechs - there's absolutely no reason for them not to have all c-bill mech variants if they can afford the required mech bays (and bays are something like $1.50 per, so it's not too expensive if one is really into collecting).

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 04 February 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

You might want to look up what AHK is before you continue with that argument. It got absolutely nothing to do with in-game options of any kind in any game.

Which is exactly my point. Try to follow along. It is an actual in game option in may mmo's. But apparenlty on the code of conduct, there is a hidden spoiler, when clicked shows a statement by PGI condoning the use of macros. SO i can't call it cheating in MWO, just unfortunate that people without that hardware will be disadvantaged. Which PGI can remedy by including a macro option ingame. But then again macros only really work for like jager and ctf mechs spamming ac's. So its not a huge problem.

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Why would you expect hardware capabilities of a keyboard or mouse to be described in a game manual? Those are described in manuals and tutorials for the device in question.

Of course they would be, if it applies to the game. These are two contradictory statements by you.

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Did you even read the part you quoted? I've explained how to do it and it's not hard at all.

Did you even read the part where I said, no solo player would choose to join up in a match that can have an unlimited amount of players in a premade team? This again shows not only your lack of sportsmanship, but your lack of an understanding of human nature.

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But there is enough to match 12v12? In other words, your story is that there are enough players to make bigger teams, but not enough to make smaller ones and you are sticking to it?

I specifically said there is enough 4 mans to match up in random pugs....more then that would make matches more uncompetitive then they already are. Please try to follow and read carefully...lol

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I would and I'll give you a hint - there is one specific reason why someone would want to go solo into a team queue and drop with an established team that happens to be missing a pilot and that reason has something to do with unit recruitment. I'll let your uncanny understanding of sportsmanship and human nature help you figure it out.

Players already constantly complain about 4 mans in a pug. Many feel its the reason for many lopsided matches as it is. And you think anyone would take the chance of being on total pug team, going against an 8 man premade? and whos to stop the teams who dominate 12 mans, just always qeueing up with 11 players... hahahaha. You think people would do that to get recruited to a unit? What planet are you from guy?

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Because private matches are going to be separate from CW (to teh best of my knowledge at least) and team size restriction along the lines of 1,2,3,4,12 with nothing between 4 and 12 is kind of silly

Ohhhh so yes Private matches are totally seperate and have nothing to do with pugs and what we were discussing. Private also means private. That solo player would have to know someone to get invited now wouldn't he? Public matches is where players get ranked be ELO get matched and earn cbills.....

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And if I happen to have 5 friends, I'll have to tell 2 of them to get lost?

You can still talk to them on teampeak and be social if you want. But like in the previous statement, when we have private matches you can all go play with each other.

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Players who have been playing since close beta are sitting on hundreds of millions c-bills, if not over a billion already (thanks to removal of repair and rearm feature). Now tell me, why would someone with dozens of mechs and that much in-game currency care about "easy c-bills"? Just to see that number increase?

Ask that to all the many posters and many threads who claim they don't like capwarriors because it stops them from getting cbills.

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Why don't you buy that story? Cash flow has been positive for a very long time, you only gain c-bills, you never lose them. Some people like to collect mechs - there's absolutely no reason for them not to have all c-bill mech variants if they can afford the required mech bays (and bays are something like $1.50 per, so it's not too expensive if one is really into collecting).

I was agreeing with you and saying I also don't buy cbills as an excuse for hating capwarriors or not playing to win.

But I don't agree that many veteran players have 100s of thousands of cbills...lmao. Most people in the veteran unit I was in still play for them, its what most people play the game for. Its a never ending process, its how the game was designed and what keeps it going. I've only bought 5 mech bay slots, and I still run out of cbills bud...

Edited by RichAC, 04 February 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Whats worth it is a relative value. They can't just ask for donations without giving something...lol Consider it a donation and get over it. I thank the people who buy them because they are keeping this game alive.

II'm so glad PGI is giving people options for big donations without affecting gameplay. The fact this game is not pay to win is one of its biggest selling points. I salute them for that.

Yes you can ask for a donation without a gift. I gave for years to Muscular Dystrophy Without receiving a gift. I give donations all the time without expecting a thing.

I agree with you about Coolant flush not being the same as cheating. Cheating would be being able to flush heat without an in game Mechanic. I don't use coolant flush as it wasn't a thing In universe and as such I on't think it should be in the game. But that's only my opinion. And I don't force it on others. We have Flush, Some use it others don't. Choice is allowed.

I have a gaming mouse (Naga Razor), which has a number pad on the thumb side, so I can use either the keypad or the mouse to fire my weapon groups. I got a gaming Keyboard... so I have lighted keys cause I don't wanna have to have a light on to game late at night.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 05 February 2014 - 05:14 AM.

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

Which is exactly my point. Try to follow along. It is an actual in game option in may mmo's. But apparenlty on the code of conduct, there is a hidden spoiler, when clicked shows a statement by PGI condoning the use of macros. SO i can't call it cheating in MWO, just unfortunate that people without that hardware will be disadvantaged. Which PGI can remedy by including a macro option ingame. But then again macros only really work for like jager and ctf mechs spamming ac's. So its not a huge problem.

You're still missing it - AHK is a free software that everybody can use if they want to. Hardware macros, like ones in my Razer Naga only give you a theoretical advantage of being undetectable (it's in-build functionality of the mouse itself), which is irrelevant in MWO as there's no reason to hide macros due to them being officially condoned by PGI.

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Of course they would be, if it applies to the game. These are two contradictory statements by you.

They never are, at least I've never seen a game documentation go into details about advanced capabilities of mice, keyboards, joysticks, etc. At best you will find something regarding how to enable the device, but not information on how to program specific buttons - that's covered in the documentation for the device itself.

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Did you even read the part where I said, no solo player would choose to join up in a match that can have an unlimited amount of players in a premade team? This again shows not only your lack of sportsmanship, but your lack of an understanding of human nature.

Given that I responded to that statement, I obviously did read it.

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I specifically said there is enough 4 mans to match up in random pugs....more then that would make matches more uncompetitive then they already are. Please try to follow and read carefully...lol

Try to understand that we're talking about a different split between pugs and premades (the one with pug queue being solo only).

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Players already constantly complain about 4 mans in a pug. Many feel its the reason for many lopsided matches as it is. And you think anyone would take the chance of being on total pug team, going against an 8 man premade? and whos to stop the teams who dominate 12 mans, just always qeueing up with 11 players... hahahaha. You think people would do that to get recruited to a unit? What planet are you from guy?

There would be no "total pug" teams, a solo player in a group queue would only drop with an existing premade. Queueing up with 11 player would give you no advantages - you would either get a single pug and drop vs full team of 12, or get a single pug and drop against team of 11 + 1 pug, or just drop against another team of 11.

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Ohhhh so yes Private matches are totally seperate and have nothing to do with pugs and what we were discussing. Private also means private. That solo player would have to know someone to get invited now wouldn't he? Public matches is where players get ranked be ELO get matched and earn cbills.....

Unknown at this point - "private matches" may or may not be invitation-only, I certainly hope that you are correct about them being unranked and not giving c-bills though. Which brings us back to the original problem - private matches being a separate game mode from CW don't qualify as workaround for group sizes between 4 and 12. Those groups still can't participate in the "normal" game without spliting into small groups (and sync dropping if they want to play together). And the question why exactly those groups got shafted is still open.

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But I don't agree that many veteran players have 100s of thousands of cbills...lmao. Most people in the veteran unit I was in still play for them, its what most people play the game for. Its a never ending process, its how the game was designed and what keeps it going. I've only bought 5 mech bay slots, and I still run out of cbills bud...

I just looked at my profile - I am currently sitting at 94 million c-bills and I haven't played since the introduction of 3PV (last September IIRC). People who kept going are definitely on 100s of millions by now.
MWO doesn't have a working economy, so it's not really a never ending process - you need to grind c-bills in the beginning, but there is a limited number of mechs and equipment that you need and after getting those you have nothing to spend c-bills on aside from consumables (and using consumables still gives you positive cash flow, so your pile of c-bills just keeps increasing).

[Joseph Mallan]

It probably would be better if there was a Solo Que once MW:O fully launched. But presently all there is, is a bare bones combat mechanic being used. Sure there are a frill or three, but at the end of the day the DEVs say this is a team game, as such teams have to be allowed to group up. And when there isn't enough team members the MM is going to take PUGs/Lone Wolves and fill in the gaps on each team.

Now as long as this is the case for Scripted scenarios as was the case in a CBT Module or world wide event. Clashes between mobs can happen on Solaris 7. Where your chosen faction is not at all important. But Clashing with The Clans in Lyran space needs to be FedCom vs Jade Falcons, Wolves or maybe a Ghost Bear Trinary. Members f House Liao should not be a part of a Lyran fight, unless there are not enough Lyrans and Lone Wolves.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 05 February 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 05 February 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

You're still missing it - AHK is a free software that everybody can use if they want to. Hardware macros, like ones in my Razer Naga only give you a theoretical advantage of being undetectable (it's in-build functionality of the mouse itself), which is irrelevant in MWO as there's no reason to hide macros due to them being officially condoned by PGI.

Your still missing the fact not everybody knows about this. If there was an in-game option, and a tutorial for it, like in some mmo's, that would be more fair.

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They never are, at least I've never seen a game documentation go into details about advanced capabilities of mice, keyboards, joysticks, etc. At best you will find something regarding how to enable the device, but not information on how to program specific buttons - that's covered in the documentation for the device itself.

Because most people don't have mice with advanced capabilites. They do tell you how to keybind for the buttons though.

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Try to understand that we're talking about a different split between pugs and premades (the one with pug queue being solo only).

well then that will all be covered with private matches, which I keep saying, and there is no need to discuss this...

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There would be no "total pug" teams, a solo player in a group queue would only drop with an existing premade. Queueing up with 11 player would give you no advantages - you would either get a single pug and drop vs full team of 12, or get a single pug and drop against team of 11 + 1 pug, or just drop against another team of 1

Dude , either its a private match or its not, make up your mind. No solo player is going to drop with guys that are making premades, And now your explaining the reason this not possible. What you describe would be fair in a perfect world. But my original point is that there is not enough people to do this! There would be no premades of even numbers to match up against. There is not enough people to even match up evenly when there is only 4 or 12 mans allowed. Add any amount of players in a premade to the equation, and it will be even worse....

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Unknown at this point - "private matches" may or may not be invitation-only, I certainly hope that you are correct about them being unranked and not giving c-bills though. Which brings us back to the original problem - private matches being a separate game mode from CW don't qualify as workaround for group sizes between 4 and 12. Those groups still can't participate in the "normal" game without spliting into small groups (and sync dropping if they want to play together). And the question why exactly those groups got shafted is still open.

Again dude, showing your lack and sense of sportsmanship, It would be unfair to have a premade of 11 people and one random solo, verse 12 random solos. It is impractical and unrealisitc to believe there would be another group of 11 people for them to matchup against. And again, the same guys that dominate 12 mans and scare everyone off, will just qeue with 11 people, ensuring noone else will be qeueing with 11 people. I don't know what you don't understand.

In a private match thats fine. What your confirming, and which I keep implying, is that it has nothing to do with "playing with firends" its about scoring easy cbills.

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I just looked at my profile - I am currently sitting at 94 million c-bills and I haven't played since the introduction of 3PV (last September IIRC). People who kept going are definitely on 100s of millions by now.


MWO doesn't have a working economy, so it's not really a never ending process - you need to grind c-bills in the beginning, but there is a limited number of mechs and equipment that you need and after getting those you have nothing to spend c-bills on aside from consumables (and using consumables still gives you positive cash flow, so your pile of c-bills just keeps increasing).

I played in a veteran unit dude, before I quit it because noone wanted to qeue for 12 man, and instead once a week 30 guys would go syncdrop together lol. Most people do not have that many cbills, one guy posted a brag thread about how he had 100 mil. And everyone was in awe. And this is the same guy who not too long ago would complain about having to spend 40k on a module. They all played since beta. I forget what he did to get that many cbills.....

I play the game too, it is not the case for me that my cbills never go down. right now I'm at 5 mil, and I haven't even bought alot of mechs. The highest i've had is 40mil when not buying anything for weeks.

And in your previous statement, your saying how the fact private matches won't reward cbills as a "problem", so your contracdicting yourself! stop trolling me. I think you refuse to understand why having premades of any amount of players jump in a random pug would be unfair. Or don't realize we don't have enough players or teams to even match them.

Edited by RichAC, 05 February 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[MadCat02]

RussianWolf, on 22 January 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I can drop in a hundred games (or a thousand) and my ELO rating is going to be based on how my team in those 100(0) matches comes out in the end. Wins and losses.

Problems:
1) it isn't taking into account the way you win - Cap rush win is a win even if a shot is never fired.
2) it isn't taking into account the quality of the win - did your team destroy 12 mechs to their 1?
3) doesn't take into account individual success - If I die in the first 2 seconds and my team goes on to win, I still get credit for the win. And if I rack up 9 kills and 1500 damage but can't carry us to the win, its still a loss.

Simple fact, giving an individual ELO rating in a game where you rate on a team metric simply doesn't work.

You would need to have set teams in order to use a team metric and get any accuracy in the rating, such as an actual league. This simply doesn't work for PUG matches at all.

OR

You need to change the metric to individual performance in order to get a rating that is actually accurate. This would work across the board

Could you post this on League of Legends forums XD Would save me so much trouble

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 February 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

It probably would be better if there was a Solo Que once MW:O fully launched. But presently all there is, is a bare bones combat mechanic being used. Sure there are a frill or three, but at the end of the day the DEVs say this is a team game, as such teams have to be allowed to group up. And when there isn't enough team members the MM is going to take PUGs/Lone Wolves and fill in the gaps on each team.

Now as long as this is the case for Scripted scenarios as was the case in a CBT Module or world wide event. Clashes between mobs can happen on Solaris 7. Where your chosen faction is not at all important. But Clashing with The Clans in Lyran space needs to be FedCom vs Jade Falcons, Wolves or maybe a Ghost Bear Trinary. Members f House Liao should not be a part of a Lyran fight, unless there are not enough Lyrans and Lone Wolves.

A solo only qeue would be nice. Would also fix the problem of steiner scout lances dominating a match. But yes like you said, even on the tooltp, they want a 4 man team to have that advantage. At least its not as bad as an 11 man team haha.

As far as CW goes, unfortunately this is a small population. We'll have to see how it goes. Lioas definitely seems like the smallest pop, but thats what we have mercenaries for I think. They could take the mercenaries and force them on the faction for the match that needs players.

In some MMOs, when playing pvp arenas, they sometimes make you play for the other side, to better match up by lvl, class or ELO. Which also lessens the queue time.

Edited by RichAC, 05 February 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[RichAC]

MadCat02, on 05 February 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Could you post this on League of Legends forums XD Would save me so much trouble

lol, yes an ELO based on nothing but wins/losses, in a random team game, goes against any sports sense.

Quakelive had a groundbreaking rating system for random teams, but even they were afraid to enforce it. They catered to a community of veterans that had a false sense of entitlement, and wanted to undermine fair play to drive away newcomers, afraid of any change. Id actually lett players manually tier down if they felt ike it.. I kid you not. Alt accounts in f2p games also undermine any system, but banning for quitting, stat padding and smurfing like LoL does is golden! I mean the first match you quit in LoL, you get a warning dude. immediately that riot does not approve and if you do it again you will be banned. I loved that about Riot. they are no joke!

Id is now a company heading downhill.... A real sad story since they are the godfather of multiplayer fps games and e-sports. I hope PGI does not make the same mistakes.

But one advantage LoL has, is that it has pools of thousands upon thousands of players. Which definitely helps any rating/ranking system. (but their intolerance for poor sportsmanship is what makes them so popular)

Unlke MWO, where the skill gap is so huge because there is not enough players, and it can't leave out the top guys who would otherwise have noone to play with.... And it only takes one or two very good top pilots to dominate a match.....I think this is what alot of people don't understand.

In quake they had the option to 1v1, and a truly competitive players has no fun owning noobs...that community, and id condoning, them ruined that game.

Edited by RichAC, 05 February 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 05 February 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

A solo only qeue would be nice. Would also fix the problem of steiner scout lances dominating a match. But yes like you said, even on the tooltp, they want a 4 man team to have that advantage. At least its not as bad as an 11 man team haha.

As far as CW goes, unfortunately this is a small population. We'll have to see how it goes. Lioas definitely seems like the smallest pop, but thats what we have mercenaries for I think. They could take the mercenaries and force them on the faction for the match that needs players.

In some MMOs, when playing pvp arenas, they sometimes make you play for the other side, to better match up by lvl, class or ELO. Which also lessens the queue time.

I don think it would "Fix" the Steiner scout lances. They would still show up, probably not as often, but I have dropped quite a few times with 3 other PUG assault pilots in my Lance.

We probably are a small community cause we don't have the whole game and many veterans are tired of the no reason to grind. Liao is supposed to be a small House in near ruins in the fiction, I wonder how that will chance with he MW:O community?

I don't play the PvP portion of games often, as I don't see the point of it. it is worse than hitting launch over and over just to grind cash. Fight die respawn, fight die respawn. It doesn't appeal to my way of playing.

BTW, it was nice to disagree with you like this. It was very civil.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 February 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

I don think it would "Fix" the Steiner scout lances. They would still show up, probably not as often, but I have dropped quite a few times with 3 other PUG assault pilots in my Lance.

We probably are a small community cause we don't have the whole game and many veterans are tired of the no reason to grind. Liao is supposed to be a small House in near ruins in the fiction, I wonder how that will chance with he MW:O community?

I don't play the PvP portion of games often, as I don't see the point of it. it is worse than hitting launch over and over just to grind cash. Fight die respawn, fight die respawn. It doesn't appeal to my way of playing.

BTW, it was nice to disagree with you like this. It was very civil.

I have done the steiner scout lance thing too with teamates, we dominated and almost felt guilty about it lol.

and ya...I'm a pvp player. but I like to pve a little too. In most mmo's most people don't pvp especially at lower levels. This is the reason for some games to match up teams regardless of faction, and also to merge servers. So this is way the MM can have a bigger pool of players to match with.

I'm just a dying breed. Nowadays these kids call someone with "skills" someone who can script the best macros. Its baffling to me . I'm old school, i just button mash over 10 buttons and I only have a 3 button mouse lmao. But I do alright...

I'm come from quake and unreal tournament and counterstrike. Everyone always had the same exact attributes at all times.....the definition of e-sports and balanced fair play to me.

grinding can give a reason to play, but it can never be "e-sport viable" You have to do what wow did in 2008 by making arena servers, for an extra fee, where you are instantly leveled with everyone else and where you can instantly change to any talents/build and gear in the game.

Edited by RichAC, 05 February 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 05 February 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Your still missing the fact not everybody knows about this. If there was an in-game option, and a tutorial for it, like in some mmo's, that would be more fair.

Probably. On the other hand, if PGI didn't introduce game mechanics that benefit from macros (i.e. ghost heat and gauss rifle charging), it would be even better.

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Because most people don't have mice with advanced capabilites. They do tell you how to keybind for the buttons though.

Even if anybody and their dog had macro-capable mouse, the details wouldn't be in any game because of sheer number of such devices on the market. It's simply impractical to include a tutorial on seting up macros for every single input device available.

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well then that will all be covered with private matches, which I keep saying, and there is no need to discuss this...

Nothing is "covered" by private matches, and I mean literally NOTHING. It's gonna be a totally separate game mode unless PGI somehow includes them into CW (and frankly I don't see how they can do that).

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Dude , either its a private match or its not, make up your mind. No solo player is going to drop with guys that are making premades, And now your explaining the reason this not possible. What you describe would be fair in a perfect world. But my original point is that there is not enough people to do this! There would be no premades of even numbers to match up against. There is not enough people to even match up evenly when there is only 4 or 12 mans allowed. Add any amount of players in a premade to the equation, and it will be even worse....

Dude, you're the one talking about private matches like they will fix everything under the sun, not me. I am talking about splitting the queues in a different fashion and I already told you one reason why solo player would want to drop with premades. Your point about not having enough people is not much of a point, because it's a self-fullfilling prophecy along the lines of "we don't have large playerbase because MM is junk and we can't make MM better because we don't have enough people". Unless something changes, we'll never have "enough people" for anything - broken game features have this nasty tendency to drive players away.

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Again dude, showing your lack and sense of sportsmanship, It would be unfair to have a premade of 11 people and one random solo, verse 12 random solos. It is impractical and unrealisitc to believe there would be another group of 11 people for them to matchup against. And again, the same guys that dominate 12 mans and scare everyone off, will just qeue with 11 people, ensuring noone else will be qeueing with 11 people. I don't know what you don't understand.

Dude, sorry for being blunt, but you got a serious issue with reading comprehension. One more time - there would be no "12 random solos" team in the group queue...ever...not possible by design. A group of 11 can be matched against another group of 11, can take 1 solo player and get matched against full premade of 12, or can be matched against a premade of 10 with 1 solo player. And all that with just +/-1 (one) player variance. If you go higher (i.e. to +/- 2) the number of potential matches increases exponentially.

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I played in a veteran unit dude, before I quit it because noone wanted to qeue for 12 man, and instead once a week 30 guys would go syncdrop together lol.

I take it that your experience absolutely has to be the same as everyone else's? It never occured to you that while your unit liked to syncdrop, other units might have wanted to play something more challenging? Like, you know, all units that participated in RHOD league...

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Most people do not have that many cbills, one guy posted a brag thread about how he had 100 mil. And everyone was in awe. And this is the same guy who not too long ago would complain about having to spend 40k on a module. They all played since beta. I forget what he did to get that many cbills.....

If you're talking about this thread, you're off by an order of magnitude - this guy brags about having over 1 billion, not 100 mil.
On a side note, don't you see a contradiction between somebody going from "40k is too expensive" to having 100 mil in a short amount of time and "most people don't have that many cbills"? If it doesn't take long to make 100 mil, most people are probably filthy rich already.

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And in your previous statement, your saying how the fact private matches won't reward cbills as a "problem", so your contracdicting yourself! stop trolling me. I think you refuse to understand why having premades of any amount of players jump in a random pug would be unfair. Or don't realize we don't have enough players or teams to even match them.

When did I say that lack of rewards in private matches is a problem? Quote please. What you keep missing is that I completely agree that having premades in solo queue is bad, which is exactly why I want solo queue to be solo only and group queue to have solo players that desire to be there.

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 05 February 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Probably. On the other hand, if PGI didn't introduce game mechanics that benefit from macros (i.e. ghost heat and gauss rifle charging), it would be even better.

haha in any video game a player can benefit from scripts.

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Even if anybody and their dog had macro-capable mouse, the details wouldn't be in any game because of sheer number of such devices on the market. It's simply impractical to include a tutorial on seting up macros for every single input device available.

I totally disagree. take a poll in your unit.... Your also ignoring the fact alot of mmos, do exactly that...

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Nothing is "covered" by private matches, and I mean literally NOTHING. It's gonna be a totally separate game mode unless PGI somehow includes them into CW (and frankly I don't see how they can do that)

As it should.....in a private match you can go play with your friends.... It should mean literally nothing. I guess units can have private matches and clan wars...but it would be something separate from the game itself.
.

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Dude, you're the one talking about private matches like they will fix everything under the sun, not me. I am talking about splitting the queues in a different fashion and I already told you one reason why solo player would want to drop with premades. Your point about not having enough people is not much of a point, because it's a self-fullfilling prophecy along the lines of "we don't have large playerbase because MM is junk and we can't make MM better because we don't have enough people". Unless something changes, we'll never have "enough people" for anything - broken game features have this nasty tendency to drive players away.

I'm not saying they will....because I know people are not trying to undermine the match maker and ELO to simply to "play with friends" lol

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Dude, sorry for being blunt, but you got a serious issue with reading comprehension. One more time - there would be no "12 random solos" team in the group queue...ever...not possible by design. A group of 11 can be matched against another group of 11, can take 1 solo player and get matched against full premade of 12, or can be matched against a premade of 10 with 1 solo player. And all that with just +/-1 (one) player variance. If you go higher (i.e. to +/- 2) the number of potential matches increases exponentially.

And what you delusionally don't understand is, there is not enough of a playerbase! How many times do I have to keep saying it? haha. Its the main reason they don't do it....theres not even enough people to match up as it is with only 4 man premades......You'd be in que for ever.....and like I KEEP SAYING, the same couple teams that domiante 12 mans...would dominate 11 mans..... there would be no difference....all this communmity will be avoiding that wasted game mode like the plague.

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I take it that your experience absolutely has to be the same as everyone else's? It never occured to you that while your unit liked to syncdrop, other units might have wanted to play something more challenging? Like, you know, all units that participated in RHOD league...

They all do it, you can read about them doing it on the forums.... all the big units have that one day a week everyone gets together and syncdrops. The most popular marik and steiner ones do I know for a fact. PGI is right it does really does have a community spirit. I just wish they all had private matches to do it in....I just hope the fact they don't get rewarded for private matches, which they shouldn't, isn't a problem for them.

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If you're talking about this thread, you're off by an order of magnitude - this guy brags about having over 1 billion, not 100 milOn a side note, don't you see a contradiction between somebody going from "40k is too expensive" to having 100 mil in a short amount of time and "most people don't have that many cbills"? If it doesn't take long to make 100 mil, most people are probably filthy rich already.

Yes I mean 100bil....I'm forget how he said he did it...maybe selling a couple years worth of junk....but ya...if you don't buy any mechs you can rack up alot of cbills. I got 40 mil in a couple weeks not buying anything. Most people buy different mechs though. Sometimes i spend 100k on modules, at least 40-50k every match. And if cbills are not a problem, then why do you think private matches as a seperate game mode that don't reward cbills is a problem?

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When did I say that lack of rewards in private matches is a problem? Quote please. What you keep missing is that I completely agree that having premades in solo queue is bad, which is exactly why I want solo queue to be solo only and group queue to have solo players that desire to be there.

"Unknown at this point - "private matches" may or may not be invitation-only, I certainly hope that you are correct about them being unranked and not giving c-bills though. Which brings us back to the original problem - private matches being a separate game mode from CW don't qualify as workaround for group sizes between 4 and 12."

Maybe I misunderstood that statement. But invitation only is the definition of private. And being a seperate game mode that is unranked would solve every bodies problem. You agree it should not have rewards, but then also say its a problem it won't be included in cw? huh? What needs to be covered. its to play with friends period, which is the reason people claim they sync drop.

There is simply not big enough of a playerbase yet, which is the reason PGI has not done what you are talking about. It would be unfair, and it should be common sense. In fact I don't know many pc games that would have enough of a playerbase to accomplish any amount on a premade team between 4-12 players, versing the same amount on another premade team..... Its extremely impractical.

And to be honest usually random teams and the more players on the team, the more competitive matches are. Just take a look at private 12 mans in MWO as they are now... that should be telling for you....

Edited by RichAC, 08 February 2014 - 03:47 AM.

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 08 February 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

haha in any video game a player can benefit from scripts.

Not in any game. As a matter of fact, macros gave absolutely no benefit in MWO prior to introduction of ghost heat and gauss charge - what else would you use macros for in this game?

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I totally disagree. take a poll in your unit.... Your also ignoring the fact alot of mmos, do exactly that...

Name one. Post a link to any game that provides instructions on how to use hardware macros for a specific (make and model - wise) gaming device, instead of just instructions on how to create in-game macros if such are available.

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As it should.....in a private match you can go play with your friends.... It should mean literally nothing. I guess units can have private matches and clan wars...but it would be something separate from the game itself.

While I certainly agree that they should indeed be separate, that means that capabilities of private matches can't be argued to "cover" something missing from other parts of the game. Essentially you are saying "if you want to play with friends, you can't participate in the main game mode (CW) at all" and there's no good reason to design a game along those lines - such limitation serves no purpose.

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And what you delusionally don't understand is, there is not enough of a playerbase! How many times do I have to keep saying it? haha.

You can keep saying it as much as you want, but that's a meaningless statement unless you back that statement up with something. Why do you think that there are not enough players for that particular scheme? How many would be enough? What needs to be changed in order for MWO to get to your "magic number" of players?

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Yes I mean 100bil....I'm forget how he said he did it...maybe selling a couple years worth of junk....but ya...if you don't buy any mechs you can rack up alot of cbills. I got 40 mil in a couple weeks not buying anything. Most people buy different mechs though. Sometimes i spend 100k on modules, at least 40-50k every match.

So, we have at least one guy who sits on over 1 billion...you yourself made 40 mil in just a few weeks...yet, you're "not buying the story" about people not caring about c-bills?

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And if cbills are not a problem, then why do you think private matches as a seperate game mode that don't reward cbills is a problem?

I don't. I never said that lack of rewards in private matches is a problem of any kind. I said that private matches won't "cover" 5-11 player gap in the matchmaker.

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You agree it should not have rewards, but then also say its a problem it won't be included in cw? huh? What needs to be covered. its to play with friends period, which is the reason people claim they sync drop.

Let me try again - the problem is not that private matches are not included in CW, the problem is CW (and current matchmaker) not allowing groups of 5-11 to participate at all. Those groups have no place to go to. Private matches being completely separate from CW don't qualify as such place. To make is simple, if you have a group of 7 that wants to play CW, your group should be able to participate as a single unit in some way,

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There is simply not big enough of a playerbase yet, which is the reason PGI has not done what you are talking about. It would be unfair, and it should be common sense. In fact I don't know many pc games that would have enough of a playerbase to accomplish any amount on a premade team between 4-12 players, versing the same amount on another premade team..... Its extremely impractical.

Bro, you really need to meditate on the scheme I was talking about. Like, read it a few more times or something. Only the maximum size of team depends on "big enough playerbase", if it's big enough to do 12v12, it's big enough to do anything between 1v1 and 12v12 - you simply pad both teams with available solo players.

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 08 February 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Not in any game. As a matter of fact, macros gave absolutely no benefit in MWO prior to introduction of ghost heat and gauss charge - what else would you use macros for in this game

Why do you use macros in any game? because your too spastic and uncoordinated to hit more then one button hahah.

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Name one. Post a link to any game that provides instructions on how to use hardware macros for a specific (make and model - wise) gaming device, instead of just instructions on how to create in-game macros if such are available.

are you serious? How bout game i currently play called RIFT. They have a game option for macros in wow...., why are you even trolling me dude..

http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro The reason they add these options into the game itself. Is because like you said, they advertise "gaming" hardware with it. So it would be politically incorrect in their industry to not condone it. And they couldn't stop people if they tried. So to make it fair to everyone, and to educate everyone how to do it, its an actual option inside the game. Because contrary to what you believe, very few people would be using them otherwise with an unfair advantage.

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While I certainly agree that they should indeed be separate, that means that capabilities of private matches can't be argued to "cover" something missing from other parts of the game. Essentially you are saying "if you want to play with friends, you can't participate in the main game mode (CW) at all" and there's no good reason to design a game along those lines - such limitation serves no purpose.

Thats exactly what I'm saying and I disagree. Your statement contradicts the fact you don't think private matches should be rewarded. Either they should or they don't guy. Make up your mind.

They are already not participating by definition.....They are not involved with the general population and their ELO would be considered padded. They can host their own tournaments and competitions...but it will have nothing to do with the game.

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You can keep saying it as much as you want, but that's a meaningless statement unless you back that statement up with something. Why do you think that there are not enough players for that particular scheme? How many would be enough? What needs to be changed in order for MWO to get to your "magic number" of players?

Have you ever tried to play 12 mans? Ever notice sometimes an uneven amount of 4 man premades on teams? I'm done replying to you dude. You have no consciousness or sports sense at all. I'm not even sure you play this game. Try being honest with yourself and stop trolling me.

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So, we have at least one guy who sits on over 1 billion...you yourself made 40 mil in just a few weeks...yet, you're "not buying the story" about people not caring about c-bills?

hahah, if noone cares, why do you care so much about private matches being rewarded? And to say that they should be in CW, which is basically faction wars? Making a private match, and benefiting one faction from it? WTF, can we say...NO sense of sporstmanship at all??

A private match is a private match man. Its not qeueing up with a private/premade team. You can't be this confused....its impossible.

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I don't. I never said that lack of rewards in private matches is a problem of any kind. I said that private matches won't "cover" 5-11 player gap in the matchmaker.

Your a confused individual and I need to stop replying to your trolls.

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Let me try again - the problem is not that private matches are not included in CW, the problem is CW (and current matchmaker) not allowing groups of 5-11 to participate at all. Those groups have no place to go to. Private matches being completely separate from CW don't qualify as such place. To make is simple, if you have a group of 7 that wants to play CW, your group should be able to participate as a single unit in some way,

Really? because thats what you just said. groups of 5-11 individuals is called a premade, not a private match. wtf? and again there is not enough people to match up with even numbered groups man. You live in a fantasy world thats not practical.

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Bro, you really need to meditate on the scheme I was talking about. Like, read it a few more times or something. Only the maximum size of team depends on "big enough playerbase", if it's big enough to do 12v12, it's big enough to do anything between 1v1 and 12v12 - you simply pad both teams with available solo players.

Its not big enough to do 12v12. Have you never queued d for 12v12 man? Fails most of the time, and if you do get to play its against the same team over and over again. Part of the problem is everyone sync drops rather then 12 man, the other part is the playerbase is small as hell... I don't see why 7 man matches would be any different. Maybe 4 mans might be possible, if people bothered to play them instead of crying when they get smashed. Which is why 7 or 11 man qeues would be no different then the 12 mans we have now...

But then regardless, those teams would have to be matched on ELO, so they would have to be static, and if not static they have to be ranked with everyone in the game, not just themselves, etc...etc...etc..

Its all about fair play and competitive matches... if it was just about "playing with friends" you would have no issue with private matches being separate. But the true reason, is people looking for easy wins that take the least effort...

But regardless, The more people that play the more chances for even matches. This is the core issue of this thread.

This is the root of the problem and the reason the OP made this thread that everyone should understand. And why this topic is probably moot. ELO in a small community always has a problem to even out, because as they did in the previous patch, they had to widen the ELO gap, to include more players because of long search times!!!! Because there is not enough players at certain levels period....... HELLOOOO MCFLYY!!!!!

Edited by RichAC, 08 February 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[IceSerpent]

RichAC, on 08 February 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Why do you use macros in any game? because your too spastic and uncoordinated to hit more then one button hahah.

When you figure out why normal people (i.e. not "too spastic and uncoordinated to hit more then one button") use macros, it might dawn on you why macros are only useful in MWO to get around ghost heat and gauss charge and were completely useless prior to introduction of those "features".

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are you serious? How bout game i currently play called RIFT. They have a game option for macros in wow...., why are you even trolling me dude..

http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro The reason they add these options into the game itself. Is because like you said, they advertise "gaming" hardware with it. So it would be politically incorrect in their industry to not condone it. And they couldn't stop people if they tried. So to make it fair to everyone, and to educate everyone how to do it, its an actual option inside the game. Because contrary to what you believe, very few people would be using them otherwise with an unfair advantage.

Let me remind you of what I asked, I'll even make the font bigger for you:

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Post a link to any game that provides instructions on how to use hardware macros for a specific (make and model - wise) gaming device, instead of just instructions on how to create in-game macros if such are available.

Now, does any of that stuff you've typed has anything to do with any specific gaming device? No, it doesn't. Why did you even bother typing it then?

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Thats exactly what I'm saying and I disagree. Your statement contradicts the fact you don't think private matches should be rewarded.

Quote where I said that private matches should not be rewarded.

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They are already not participating by definition.....They are not involved with the general population and their ELO would be considered padded. They can host their own tournaments and competitions...but it will have nothing to do with the game.

Irrelevant, unless you are saying that those should not (as in never ever) participate. If that's what you're saying, please explain why you would like to exclude those specific groups from CW.

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Have you ever tried to play 12 mans? Ever notice sometimes an uneven amount of 4 man premades on teams?

In 12 mans? Where every single team is a full premade by design? How in a world can you have an uneven number of 4-man premades in there?

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I'm done replying to you dude.

Promises, promises...

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Your a confused individual and I need to stop replying to your trolls.

Yes, you do. But you can't resist, can you?

[RichAC]

IceSerpent, on 08 February 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

When you figure out why normal people (i.e. not "too spastic and uncoordinated to hit more then one button") use macros, it might dawn on you why macros are only useful in MWO to get around ghost heat and gauss charge and were completely useless prior to introduction of those "features".

Then it takes away the skill of timing moves yourself. which as I've said, can apply to any game.

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Let me remind you of what I asked, I'll even make the font bigger for you:


Now, does any of that stuff you've typed has anything to do with any specific gaming device? No, it doesn't. Why did you even bother typing it then?

yes it does, because it provides the options for people who don't own the specific device. Because of those specific devices is one reason many developers include the ingame option in the first place. Which you were trying to deny even exists in games...lol

The truth is, unlike you delusionally believe, only a minority of players own these specific devices, and smaller few still know how to use them properly, so it is unfair. period. So some developers provide their own software for creating macros.

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Quote where I said that private matches should not be rewarded.

IF thats not your issue, whats the difference whether they are in cw or not?

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Irrelevant, unless you are saying that those should not (as in never ever) participate. If that's what you're saying, please explain why you would like to exclude those specific groups from CW.

They are excluding themselves by playing a private match. most understand this, its common sense. I don't know why i have to explain how a private match effecting the outcomes of faction wars is unsportlike. I'm sure you already know why, but to humor you, they can be used to dishonestly affect outcomes. Players can not only pad stats and ELO's in private matches, whch naturally happens by not being ranked with the whole playerbase, but they could also easily fix matches if one team loses on purpose, etc...

Probably a moot point though, because one has to assume if you are all friends, you will all be playing on the same team no? The only reason not to, would be for what I stated above.

Which makes more sense for dishonest mercenaries... they can pad each others stats for different faction bonuses, from what i've seen how PGI plans to implement them.

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In 12 mans? Where every single team is a full premade by design? How in a world can you have an uneven number of 4-man premades in there?

first we are talking about not having enough teams to evenly match up against teams of the same premade amount. Second, you have never queued for 12 man, when usually there is only 3 teams in total playing....... 2nd these same few top lvl players will just dominat 7 or 11 man matches in the same fashion. Sync dropping with 30 people proves its not about having enough players for a 12 man team, its about being a sore loser.

Thirdly... 4 man premades are in random pugs, and there is not even enough of them to match up evenly most of the time, which includes by ELO, and per amount of solo qeues......

I've already said it could be viable to have 4v4 matches.....maybe in skirmish mode lol. But come on it would be lame, and again, the top players will dominate because most of this community will not want to play them.

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Yes, you do. But you can't resist, can you?

Its my duty to God and Country.

Edited by RichAC, 08 February 2014 - 08:44 PM.