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C-Bill Income


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#1 SilkyNoah

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:59 PM

Hello everyone, I've been playing for a couple of weeks now and I have one big complaint. Don't take this as me saying the game "sucks" or anything like that, I understand this is a business and people need to make money, etc... I only complain because I care.

C-Bill income is way to low compared to the price of mechs/components. After getting enough money using the Trial Mechs I purchased a cheap light mech, thinking I would like it. Well, I ended up hating it. So I sold it, got a couple million back and then grinded out a few million more to buy a medium mech. Unfortunately, my brother accidentally sold that one while I was letting him try the Training Grounds mode to see if he liked the game (which he did and now plays it on his account), which left me with almost no money. I am currently saving for a Jagermech and I am getting tired of playing already.

One of the main reasons I quit World of Tanks was because after Tier V the grind got absurd. This game is unfortunately starting to feel like that. Yes, it's not as bad as WoT, not even close, WoT is over the top when it comes to grinding out tanks. This is nowhere near that level, however, it is still too high for a casuals like myself to enjoy completely.

The reward for C-Bills is so unbalanced that someone who suicide rushes into the enemy team will get more C-Bills than someone who plays cautiously, even if the cautious person does more to support the team.

My play style is fire, move, peak around corner, fire, move, snipe a guy, move, etc... I don't sit back but I don't rush into the brawl. I get a minuscule amount of C-Bills compared to a light who just does a little damage to everyone he sees and spots enemies. I will lock down a flank, the light will harass, both are of equal importance. However, he gets far more reward than I, and most of my team will get.

In short, I shouldn't have to devote all of my gaming time into this game just to feel like I am getting somewhere. I shouldn't have to use Premium either. Also, I definitely shouldn't have to, and won't, play like a fool just to earn money. Obviously, it should take a good amount of playing time to buy a new mech or upgrade one, but not as long as it does now.

Anyone agree, disagree?

Edited by SilkyNoah, 22 December 2013 - 12:09 AM.


#2 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:46 AM

I have two suggestions to help with C-Bills...


The first being on Skirmish mode, if your team wins, you gain a % bonus to your total income before premium/hero bonuses by how many tons lighter your team is. Call it the Underbid Bonus.

So say your team wins a match and you are 250 tons underweight; you gain 25% more s on top of whatever you earned before extra bonuses.

The second, is allow for a dynamic salvage. What I mean by this is every time you destroy a weapon, or piece of equipment or even armor attached to this section, you have a SMALL chance to salvage it. So maybe one out of 5 matches you'll earn in salvage a Medium Laser or double heat sink from a mech you destroyed, or even more rare an AC20! A player could then sell it or use it. (Apply this to Clan tech so that this is the only way IS and mercs can acquire clan tech weapons/equipment without buying clan mechs outright from the black market and stripping them. Players can only buy just mechs, no parts or tech, those must be salvaged in game.)

Thoughts?

Edited by mwhighlander, 23 December 2013 - 09:33 AM.


#3 Black Ivan

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:50 AM

Salvage and increased revenue are both good ideas. The grind is absolutly harsh in MWO compared to other games.

#4 Sandpit

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:55 AM

I disagree. This is also a thread on a topic that has several already discussing it. A decent game in a non-hero or premium time match nets me about 100k/match. That's 1 million every 10 matches or so. Average match lasts about 6 minutes or so for me. so that's about 1 million an hour. That's not bad in my opinion.

When I'm pugging I look at my c-bills a lot more. That's like watching the clock while at work, it seems to move slower. When I'm playing with people on TS we're talking, discussing the game, talking football, goofin off, it doesn't move as slow because I'm just playing the game and goofing off.

I recommend everyone at least give TS a try. See how it might change your game experience. And add a little more wins to your stats usually.

#5 Tyrnea Smurf

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:59 AM

Another idea to avoid grind (no idea if it is against the TOS at all) but if your account is that messed up (basically your in the worst case scenario on the starting economy) then roll up a new account.

Bingo presto your suddenly in cadet bonus time again in a new account. Once you get finished with it (25 drops iirc) then go try to buy a new mech and outfit it. would suggest avoiding those lights and mediums you didn't take to.

Hope this helps.

#6 Sandpit

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:08 AM

View PostTyrnea Smurf, on 22 December 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Another idea to avoid grind (no idea if it is against the TOS at all) but if your account is that messed up (basically your in the worst case scenario on the starting economy) then roll up a new account.

Bingo presto your suddenly in cadet bonus time again in a new account. Once you get finished with it (25 drops iirc) then go try to buy a new mech and outfit it. would suggest avoiding those lights and mediums you didn't take to.

Hope this helps.

It's not against the ToS. Lots of players have alts

#7 Profiteer

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:40 AM

Buy premium time - that's the whole point.

#8 Spheroid

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:44 AM

There are no cheap lights. Every single light mech needs the largest practical XL engine to survive. You should have just bought the ultra cheap Hunchback-4G and worked toward a Jager-S. Between the 200 STD and the Jager's 260 you would have been set for months on reusable parts. Four million is nothing, get started.

Edited by Spheroid, 22 December 2013 - 01:53 AM.


#9 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:54 AM

You need to just do any damage to everyone on the other team (even if you only scratch them) to get 12 assists and get money.

#10 D A T A

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:19 AM

i am a player that does not use premium time, hero or Champions

according to my stats i have a medium of 90k c bills per match

a match lasts around 7 minutes, and you loose 3 minuts finding the game and waiting all people to come in, so 10 minutes for 90k c bills, so 9 millions c bills = 1 hour and 40 minutes=
unless you are a big nerd you can not do more than 1.5 or 2 millions per day

an highlander with xl 300 j jets, double heat sinks, 2 ppc 2 ac 5 and 3 ssrm2 costs around 16 millions, maybe more.
some cheaper complete mechs ( Jenner f with xl 300 dhs etc etc etc, cost 8.5 millions), means the medium cost is 12 millions

means 2 weeks for a ******* mech variant

there are over 150 variants

SHOULD WE PLAY 6 YEARSTO THIS GAME?????????????


C BILL REWARD MUST HAVE AN OVERALL INCREASE OF +20%+25% FO ALL

#11 Satan n stuff

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:11 AM

View PostSandpit, on 22 December 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

I disagree. This is also a thread on a topic that has several already discussing it. A decent game in a non-hero or premium time match nets me about 100k/match. That's 1 million every 10 matches or so. Average match lasts about 6 minutes or so for me. so that's about 1 million an hour. That's not bad in my opinion.

When I'm pugging I look at my c-bills a lot more. That's like watching the clock while at work, it seems to move slower. When I'm playing with people on TS we're talking, discussing the game, talking football, goofin off, it doesn't move as slow because I'm just playing the game and goofing off.

I recommend everyone at least give TS a try. See how it might change your game experience. And add a little more wins to your stats usually.

I'm currently doing 200k per match on average but I'm on premium time and nearly half the mechs I'm using right now give me an increased cbill income. I've gotten anything from 150k to over 300k for a good match depending on income bonuses, and that's mostly due to me using teamspeak.
Of course I don't exactly need cbills, what with all of my recent mechs either being Phoenix or hero mechs, so I spent a lot less cbills to build all of them so now I've got about 70 million with very little to spend it on. My prediction is that I'll have over 100 million by the time I start buying regular mechs again.

Tip for the OP: Spotting is a good way to make a lot of money fast, and try to assist against many enemy mechs as you can as the cbill reward for a kill assist is the same regardless of damage, just make sure they die because you still need the targets to go down or you get nothing.

#12 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:53 AM

It was bearable till PGI nerfed cbills for the money grab. No one was complaining before so it wasn't done because the base wanted it. In fact most everything done isn't because the base wanted it. Overall its ok with me because its one step closer to killing the game for good and taking the apologists with it. WC Fields had it right all along.

#13 Sen

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:32 AM

Quote

unless you are a big nerd you can not do more than 1.5 or 2 millions per day


Or unless you. . I dunno. . actually find a group and L2P.

Yep, I went there.
Now, I'm sure people are going to look at my tags and QQ "WTF, you P2W". I'll address that briefly.

I enjoy the IP, and as a result I have made a financial investment in this game. I currently have over 7 months of premium time banked between various packages, freebies, etc.


--And for the record, NO. I have not purchased a clan pack.

I also OCCASIONALLY use premium time, on certain occasions [phoenix delivery being one of them].

And lastly, I am married to a woman who plays, and she does NOT use premium time.

Ok, now on to my point.

I have a good baseline comparison between my funds and my wife's. She does NOT have anywhere near as many mechs or as much equipment as I do. She started out just like everyone else; stuck in trial mechs.

In two weeks, WITHOUT PREMIUM TIME, she had several lights, several 'phract. . it came out to about 11 mechs IIRC. No premium bonus, no champion bonus, and at the time we were only playing for a few hours a night.. maybe 3 or 4 times a week.

On a good run, I've seen the woman make over 170k straight up, no modifiers. By comparison, on a not so great run, or when I'm pugging, with premium time and a bonus C-bill 'mech I've been lucky to break 100k

It's been said over and over, and most people tend to shrug this off, but FIND A GROUP. Download Team Speak [it's free] head over to

http://equalopportun...-na-server-info

And let a group pick you up. I've met some of the best players and best people in the game through Comstar's servers [including the future commander of my unit] Not only will you do better with a competent group over teamspeak, but it'll make the games go by faster, you'll tend to pick up some great pro tips and unless you're a complete [expletive deleted] you might just find yourself developing as a better player.

There are still going to be matches [and from experience even whole nights] when something in ELO or your group makeup or the pugs on your team causes loss after loss after loss. I've experienced it and it's extremely frustrating. Sometimes it's as simple as changing up your mech or your weapons loadout, sometimes it's just best to shut it down and read a book. It's a game, don't stress over it. Give it a little time to develop itself.

Last, the whole C-bill thing is a cumulative train wreck in situations like the O/P. In all fairness, PGI doesn't have control over your friend, and it's your choice to sell mechs (which from personal experience I can say NEVER EVER EVER SELL ANY MECH FOR ANY REASON NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU HATE IT) In your case, starting over may be the best option.

I'm still trying to figure out how you can be miserable in a Jaeger, but I've also experienced how some mechs just work better for different people.


[and please, leave the flames at the door. We keep GIVING the same advice because most people don't actually HEAR it. If you're sick of HEARING it, and you haven't TRIED it, you can SHOVE it. If you HAVE tried it and you HAVEN'T benefited from it... Maybe you've got the wrong group. Remember, it pays to shop around ^^

Edited by Sen, 22 December 2013 - 07:33 AM.


#14 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:41 AM

When they implemented the cbill nerf I stopped buying premium time, only reason I have any right now is because of the holiday premium time giveaway.

There are tons of threads laying around showing the various time to cbill ratio and its pretty gnarly all around, I won't be bullied into buying anything that by the same nerf lost value as a product because they didnt increase the premium bonus after the nerf.

Iv been tempted to buy a hero mech when its on sale but they always go just above the MC mark for purchase which has turned me off of the buy every single time so far. (IE Protector being like 3400MC on sale so needing to buy the $29.95 package to get it cause the next one down only goes to 3000MC)

Miiiight get a a la carte mech if the prices drop a smigin, or if they add a specific MC purchase option or direct cash option for buying stuff.

#15 A banana in the tailpipe

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostSilkyNoah, on 21 December 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

Hello everyone, I've been playing for a couple of weeks now and I have one big complaint. Don't take this as me saying the game "sucks" or anything like that, I understand this is a business and people need to make money, etc... I only complain because I care.

C-Bill income is way to low compared to the price of mechs/components. After getting enough money using the Trial Mechs I purchased a cheap light mech, thinking I would like it. Well, I ended up hating it. So I sold it, got a couple million back and then grinded out a few million more to buy a medium mech. Unfortunately, my brother accidentally sold that one while I was letting him try the Training Grounds mode to see if he liked the game (which he did and now plays it on his account), which left me with almost no money. I am currently saving for a Jagermech and I am getting tired of playing already.

One of the main reasons I quit World of Tanks was because after Tier V the grind got absurd. This game is unfortunately starting to feel like that. Yes, it's not as bad as WoT, not even close, WoT is over the top when it comes to grinding out tanks. This is nowhere near that level, however, it is still too high for a casuals like myself to enjoy completely.

The reward for C-Bills is so unbalanced that someone who suicide rushes into the enemy team will get more C-Bills than someone who plays cautiously, even if the cautious person does more to support the team.

My play style is fire, move, peak around corner, fire, move, snipe a guy, move, etc... I don't sit back but I don't rush into the brawl. I get a minuscule amount of C-Bills compared to a light who just does a little damage to everyone he sees and spots enemies. I will lock down a flank, the light will harass, both are of equal importance. However, he gets far more reward than I, and most of my team will get.

In short, I shouldn't have to devote all of my gaming time into this game just to feel like I am getting somewhere. I shouldn't have to use Premium either. Also, I definitely shouldn't have to, and won't, play like a fool just to earn money. Obviously, it should take a good amount of playing time to buy a new mech or upgrade one, but not as long as it does now.

Anyone agree, disagree?


I completely agree if you're a solo player. This game punishes casuals into the Pay 2 Win situation where it's faster to buy a mech than grind for months to obtain one which will be outdated by future released mechs anyways.

Personally, I soloed my way into mid-high elo on a casual schedule and made about 35-50k per match going for high damage/killing blows. As soon as I joined a lance my stats went into the ******* due to playing with better players, but just being on the winning side tripled my Cbill earnings. What would take me 10+ pugs to grind out a few hundred K C-bills suddenly turned into 1.3-1.5 million bills a night.

It's no wonder people exploit every weakness and flaw in the meta for the sake of winning to the point it has driven most of the casual players away. The huge rate of return from winning is worth being a cheese ball and running LRM5 KTOs.

Edited by lockwoodx, 22 December 2013 - 07:42 AM.


#16 Warblood

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:27 AM

;) not havein a cbill issue here.. :P
http://i865.photobuc...zps1bbef674.png

#17 Mao of DC

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:45 AM

My advice for the OP that HASN'T been mentioned use UAV. Yes they cost BUT if well placed you get a MASSIVE C bill and exp bonus. For example if you get lucky enough to get 10 enemy mechs in the UAV you get 2000 c bills each and 25 exp. Also you get a C-ECM bonus for each ECM mech in that pack. Dont forget about assists if any LRM boat uses the targets provided.
I have found that while my cbill earnings have slowed a bit because the UAV is 40,000 it is made up for with all the extras.

#18 Sandpit

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:10 AM

PGI, please keep the game balance where it's currently at. Economy = good
Weapons balance = good

Get the content in and we're golden.

#19 Antonio

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:40 PM

I think the root cause is the lack of a good new player experience. New players with cadet bonus make enough C-Bills to buy almost any mech but the game does a poor job in making sure they make the right decision. A step in the right direction would be having all mechs available as trials.

#20 Shadowsword8

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:47 PM

View PostBlack Ivan, on 22 December 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Salvage and increased revenue are both good ideas. The grind is absolutly harsh in MWO compared to other games.


It is, and it's going to get worse still. Imagine paying 20-25M C-bills for a Timber Wolf...


The last money grab made it clear PGI want players to pay more. They won't do anything to lessen the temptation of buying MC.





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