168 replies to this topic

[Oraeon1224]

I am a bit concerned about the planned tonnage and drop ship limits which may be coming in april:

• Now that the match is locked in, players can begin to organize and plan for the battle. The first order of business will be meeting the tonnage restrictions. Each team tonnage total must fall between [240] and [480] tons. Players can bring up to [8] BattleMechs with them to battle. For the purposes of lore, these are transported in a DropShip. Selecting a `Mech readies the `Mech and adds it to your teams total tonnage. The team’s tonnage will be displayed at the top of the team’s player list, showing each person’s `Mech and weight. The number will show total weight and the amount above or below the min/max tonnage limits. Players are encouraged to quickly organize through a match bonus mechanism. A match CB bonus starts at [10%] and goes down to [0%] at a rate of [1%] every [6] seconds. If both teams manage to ready up quickly, each player will receive a match CB bonus on any earnings they may receive.
  
• Once all players are readied, and the tonnage limits are met for each team, the match is locked in and a [10] second countdown clock starts.

I like the general idea of tonnage limits and also the ability to have a drop ship with different weight mechs to give flexibility. However, I am a bit concerned about what happens if several players select assault mechs leaving little tonnage for the rest of team (mech selection is not elaborated on here). This would also still create the environment of mostly Assaults with very concentrated fire power making mediums less useful. Here is an example of why mech limits might be a better option:

Total tons allowed 480

Lance 1: Atlas 100t, Spider 30t, Spider 30t, Commando 25
Lance 2 Atlas 100t, Spider 30t, Spider 30t, Commando 25
Lance 3: Commando 25t, Jenner 35t, Commando 25t, Locust 20

Using their 480t example this is clearly a poorly arranged match.

Perhaps instead they should have lance slots:

Lance 1: Assault/Heavy, Heavy/Medium, Medium/Light, Light
Lance 2: Heavy/Medium, Heavy/Medium, Medium/Light, Light
Lance 3: Heavy/Medium, Medium/Light, Medium/Light, Light

This could be combined with a tonnage limit to enforce the split choices such as Assault/Heavy, Heavy/Medium or Medium/Light. Lances underweight could perhaps get a C-bill bonus as well promoting a bit of gambling by each side.

This could also allow for variable game scenarios with CW. You could have a story displayed for each conflict on the screen. For instance you could change the load-outs to reflect the missions.such as a loss of drop ships on planetary landing reduced available assault mechs for one side--This slight imbalance could provide an additional C-bill bonus for the weaker side if they win. Personally I would like to see a random game mode where one team has to protect a base and the other team has to conquer it. Give turrets to the defending side but allow more Assault/Heavy slots to the assaulting force.

[Thuzel]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 25 January 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

[...] it's so dumb and everyone here is just peachy keen with it.

Most of the people who know better took off a long time ago. Between IGP/PGI's antics and the laughable white knights it was either that or have a coronary, as you suggested. So now the forums just contain what's left and the occasional "check-in" from some of us that moved on.

I can't (and won't) say this game is going to die, since there's no telling how long they'll try to milk this thing, but in any event the player-base changed drastically last year and it's probably never going back.

[Sidai]

No change in waiting time and getting stomped as same as before.

[Black Templar]

Prezimonto, on 23 January 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

[...]
I also greatly wish you'd use a much more granular method of assigning ELO... instead of weight class based on loadout, range at which you take and give damage, ELO for any combination of players, ELO for specific mechs with specific loadouts. I might be AMAZING in a dual gauss K2, and awful with 2xPPC and 2xLL.... but my ELO counts the same for both builds (which play very different).

This is called "Battle Value" or "BV" and nobody knows why PGI didn't implement it in the first place to balance the matches. The matchmaker has been crappy for over a year now. The problem is getting old and progress is absent. However you still need ELO to balance the BVs against each other. Still: when there is simply nobody online to match you against, you'll either be searching for a long time and (and fail to find a match) or end up with a bad matchup since the search range had to be increased.

Edited by Black Templar, 27 January 2014 - 02:06 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

I usually have a long wait time since elo came out so I really haven't noticed (about 3 to 5 min wait on matchs when I drop solo, 1 to 2 min if I drop in a 4man).

[Prezimonto]

Black Templar, on 27 January 2014 - 01:55 AM, said:

This is called "Battle Value" or "BV" and nobody knows why PGI didn't implement it in the first place to balance the matches. The matchmaker has been crappy for over a year now. The problem is getting old and progress is absent. However you still need ELO to balance the BVs against each other. Still: when there is simply nobody online to match you against, you'll either be searching for a long time and (and fail to find a match) or end up with a bad matchup since the search range had to be increased.

I understand that people in the wings (outter 5 to 10% of a gaussian) are going to either have to play outside their ELO range or wait for huge queue times. What I don't like is the blanket approach where they just opened up matching for everyone. Why not ameliorate the problem by matching edge cases differently than the bulk of the player base in the middle.

I also think BV, specifically a market based BV that dynamically shifts based on equipment usage as well as scarcity, and political realities for your faction/position would be wonderful, a way to inheirently curb the flavor of the month build yo-yo that we tend to see a in this game. So which do you rank as more important? Or do you match based on ELO into the lobby and let the players sort out BV/tonnage through argument or a dynamic choice. Something like league of legends ranked matches where players get assigned a random pick order(or this could be not so random and weighted based on your ELO/team status/rank) and can then lock out champions or in this case higher amounts of total BV.

..............................
At the topic of the thread. I'm seeing what I think are slightly longer but acceptable match times, particularly early in the morning or late at night.

Edited by Prezimonto, 27 January 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Oraeon1224, on 26 January 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

I am a bit concerned about the planned tonnage and drop ship limits which may be coming in april:

• Now that the match is locked in, players can begin to organize and plan for the battle. The first order of business will be meeting the tonnage restrictions. Each team tonnage total must fall between [240] and [480] tons. Players can bring up to [8] BattleMechs with them to battle. For the purposes of lore, these are transported in a DropShip. Selecting a `Mech readies the `Mech and adds it to your teams total tonnage. The team’s tonnage will be displayed at the top of the team’s player list, showing each person’s `Mech and weight. The number will show total weight and the amount above or below the min/max tonnage limits. Players are encouraged to quickly organize through a match bonus mechanism. A match CB bonus starts at [10%] and goes down to [0%] at a rate of [1%] every [6] seconds. If both teams manage to ready up quickly, each player will receive a match CB bonus on any earnings they may receive.
  
• Once all players are readied, and the tonnage limits are met for each team, the match is locked in and a [10] second countdown clock starts.

I like the general idea of tonnage limits and also the ability to have a drop ship with different weight mechs to give flexibility. However, I am a bit concerned about what happens if several players select assault mechs leaving little tonnage for the rest of team (mech selection is not elaborated on here). This would also still create the environment of mostly Assaults with very concentrated fire power making mediums less useful. Here is an example of why mech limits might be a better option:



Total tons allowed 480

Lance 1: Atlas 100t, Spider 30t, Spider 30t, Commando 25
Lance 2 Atlas 100t, Spider 30t, Spider 30t, Commando 25
Lance 3: Commando 25t, Jenner 35t, Commando 25t, Locust 20

Using their 480t example this is clearly a poorly arranged match.

Perhaps instead they should have lance slots:

Lance 1: Assault/Heavy, Heavy/Medium, Medium/Light, Light
Lance 2: Heavy/Medium, Heavy/Medium, Medium/Light, Light
Lance 3: Heavy/Medium, Medium/Light, Medium/Light, Light

This could be combined with a tonnage limit to enforce the split choices such as Assault/Heavy, Heavy/Medium or Medium/Light. Lances underweight could perhaps get a C-bill bonus as well promoting a bit of gambling by each side.

This could also allow for variable game scenarios with CW. You could have a story displayed for each conflict on the screen. For instance you could change the load-outs to reflect the missions.such as a loss of drop ships on planetary landing reduced available assault mechs for one side--This slight imbalance could provide an additional C-bill bonus for the weaker side if they win. Personally I would like to see a random game mode where one team has to protect a base and the other team has to conquer it. Give turrets to the defending side but allow more Assault/Heavy slots to the assaulting force.

if this is how they plan to do weight limits then its a disaster waiting to happen.

Once I've selected the mech I'm dropping in, I'm dropping in it, if I have to wait an extra 60seconds two minutes, because of that fine, but if I launch and then get told I can only run a blackjack when I was planning on running a shadow hawk then its bye bye team, and if people start getting moderated over it, then people will just suicide and go on to the next game, or just quit playing alltogether.

I actually came here to report that match balancing is still completely useless as when a raven 4x and cicada 3c (the crappy one with the energy and 4 ballistic points) out damage all the assaults in their team by a mile then its still broken badly.

Then I saw this post and just face palmed

This style of weight balancing is actually saying

"Hi we want you to come play our game we want you to put large amounts of cash into it and make us rich, there are lots and lots of lovely mechs to chose from only if you play a match you can only use this one.."

sound business model..

I think not..

Edited by Cathy, 27 January 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Sidai, on 27 January 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

No change in waiting time and getting stomped as same as before.

I thought the ques got quicker, but the match balancing is still bloody aweful

[Deathlike]

Cathy, on 27 January 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

I thought the ques got quicker, but the match balancing is still bloody aweful

It actually depends on where you are at "ELO-wise" - assuming you have a relative idea.

It's simply worse if your ELO is high.

If your ELO is "too high" though (frequent failed to find matches), you'll probably benefit, but then you'll have to start carrying newbie teammates.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 January 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Seddrik]

I don't like ELO all that much, but drops have seemed slightly quicker since adjustments. Have seen a wider range of player skills involved, noticeably. Which means those guys who are good in a drop don't necessarily have 3-8 teammates focusing the same target as them. This results in more brawling, something I've missed from the 8 man days. Since 12 mans were introduced its all mobbing. Not talking about stomping some new guy 1v1, but real brawls between good pilots. That's what I miss.

Not sure how tonnage limits would actually affect the game. I personally don't mind the total freedom of choice in 12 mans to bring what you want. And dropping with a very heavy mech pug is no guarantee of victory. I've played other games that had specific character class slots (military games, for example, with 4 riflemen, 2 snipers, 2 ar and 2 medics). This guaranteed a spread of roles (but not the skill in those roles). But it did hinder 8 ARs spamming or 8 medics healing type of situations.

I wouldn't mind testing different things, if PGI is willing to go back if it doesn't work as well. I'd love to have 12 man team drops for competition and 8 man drops for pugging. It would almost be like different game modes... heh

Edited by Seddrik, 27 January 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Butane9000]

Monday January 27th I spent 4-5 matches with either 1 disconnect, failure to load or empty spot on my team. match maker still needs work.

[Seddrik]

There is always one DC in every match. Always. Dunno if that is the match maker or... people farming.

[Deathlike]

Seddrik, on 27 January 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

There is always one DC in every match. Always. Dunno if that is the match maker or... people farming.

I personally lean towards unstable game. Maybe I'm at the ELO that avoids seeing DC farmers, but most of the DCs are usually the game crashing on itself (whether you find out from others, or experiencing for yourself).

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Deathlike, on 27 January 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

I personally lean towards unstable game. Maybe I'm at the ELO that avoids seeing DC farmers, but most of the DCs are usually the game crashing on itself (whether you find out from others, or experiencing for yourself).

I dunno, I think it's a mix of things. Like there are certain people like that 100100102020-whatever, that are doing some kind of farming or something.

And there are going to be the map DC's (I get tempted every time I see Terra Therma).

And of course there are still hardware/software disconnects and the always present "OH {Scrap} MY WIFE NOTICED IM PLAYING" disconnects.

But when you add all of them together and what I still think is a very low population, it feels like once a match at least.

[KodiakGW]

Much longer now. At least I had time to find this, do the poll, and type this post. Thanks!

[GrimmwolfGB]

I am wondering, what is the purpose of placing up to 4 new players in the lions den? Do they learn anything from getting killed in the first minute? Do they enjoy that? Does it make it enjoyable for the vets?
It is a game of who has less dcs and less (c) often enough...

[Drunk Canuck]

Why not instead of toying with something that was fine, you fix the asinine weight distribution issues instead? It's embarrassing going into a match and getting 12-0 or 12-1 because the other team has 8 Assault Mech's, 2 Mediums and 2 Heavies while your team has 2 Assault Mech's and a pile of Mediums and some lights.

[Faolan65]

Forgive my ignorance, and help me understand how this works...

Typically when I drop solo, I do fairly well, 3-4 kills, 500-700 damage. But when I do 4-man drops with my company (and I clearly acknowledge they are more skilled than myself) I get my rear handed to me quite quickly, and even if I do survive the duration of the match, I’m lucky if I get past 250 damage.

Help me understand my ELO situation, and how I’m affecting my 4-man drops.

[Lianesch ZA]

Asked in the Clan I'm in, they all agree waiting times are shorter

Games are better for me as well.

[Edit] What I mean with "better" I don't get creamed 10 games in a row anymore. More a 50/50 win/loose, but this might just be luck or elo loves me again.

Edited by Lianesch, 28 January 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[Heffay]

Faolan65, on 28 January 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Forgive my ignorance, and help me understand how this works...

Typically when I drop solo, I do fairly well, 3-4 kills, 500-700 damage. But when I do 4-man drops with my company (and I clearly acknowledge they are more skilled than myself) I get my rear handed to me quite quickly, and even if I do survive the duration of the match, I’m lucky if I get past 250 damage.

Help me understand my ELO situation, and how I’m affecting my 4-man drops.

You're friends are much better than you. When you queue up with them, you get put in a much higher bracket, and your opponents are correspondingly better.

When you solo drop, you play against people of your skill level, and do just fine.