304 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

Jade Kitsune, on 29 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Who's position has 0 to do with the game design.

You may as well be siding with the Pope on this issue.

As for my reason that it's a cheat... I also frankly consider using MACRO's a cheat also... as it's an external program doing the imput of the button command and not yourself.

I also side with orginizations like MLG that states that use of Turbo controllers is cheating. [which is what a macro does essentially]

You are explicitly modifying a file, to change an implimented feature that was put on everyone, meaning the feature was intended to be something that impacts everyone. by removing this, you are not playing the game as intended... thus cheating.

This line of logic is NOT hard to follow.

So your opinion, well that's fine. A PGI employee has said it isn't so who's do you think matter in this case? You're entitled to your opinion and the rest of us are entitled to rely on the words that come directly from PGI. Good to know it's not cheating by the people that matter.

[Deathlike]

Jade Kitsune, on 29 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Who's position has 0 to do with the game design.

You may as well be siding with the Pope on this issue.

TBH, you have to remember that the rules demanding answers was instituted, but moreso, do you honestly expect to get an official answer from Russ, Bryan, or Paul on twitter?

I'm not entirely sure if you're missing the benefit of having someone from PGI reasonably respond to matters, and not be dictated to by IGP or mods that may or may not be correct in the situation.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Deathlike, on 29 January 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

do you honestly expect to get an official answer from Russ, Bryan, or Paul on twitter?

You will the moment someone catches them using it, like the spider hitbox issue and Russ.

[Dimento Graven]

Jade Kitsune, on 29 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Who's position has 0 to do with the game design.

A. You don't know that.
B. His job certainly has to be closer to the actual PGI development team than hers.

Quote

You may as well be siding with the Pope on this issue.

If the Pope worked for PGI instead of IGP, I would, yes.

Quote

As for my reason that it's a cheat... I also frankly consider using MACRO's a cheat also... as it's an external program doing the imput of the button command and not yourself.

PGI has ruled on that, gaming mice with macro capabilities are allowed. It's the 3rd party macro programs are more questionable, but PGI has admitted they have no way of countering it.

Quote

I also side with orginizations like MLG that states that use of Turbo controllers is cheating. [which is what a macro does essentially]

You are explicitly modifying a file, to change an implimented feature that was put on everyone, meaning the feature was intended to be something that impacts everyone. by removing this, you are not playing the game as intended... thus cheating.

This line of logic is NOT hard to follow.

Your view point is incorrect, PGI has already ruled on it. It's not cheating.

That's like saying anyone who can afford a multi LCD panel capable video card, and 3 monitors is cheating, and we know the stance on that is just the opposite.

[Almond Brown]

lockwoodx, on 29 January 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Think on the bright side.

Without the need for a cockpit there's no need to put any dev effort towards making more cockpit items to sell and they can work on more worthwhile things such as maps ect.

This is exactly why they'll nerf it eventually.

Typical UnderHive type rhetoric.

Did you ever consider that not every MechWarrior is 6'5" tall and that a Mech may have an adjustable couch, and to reach the pedals, some mighty MechWarriors may have to slide that couch up farther than others.

I know my car has an adjustable seat, thank ****.

[Dimento Graven]

Sterling M Archer, on 29 January 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

...
Wasn't something said about it being ok to set your FOV but NOT to touch the config files like this.?.
...

You may not be aware of this, but you can't modify your FOV without touching the USER.CFG file.

[Dimento Graven]

Sterling M Archer, on 29 January 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

I said (NOT to touch the config files like this.?) Maybe you need to read that statement again and understand it.
I didn't say you couldn't touch it at all, I said (LIKE THIS?)

Need I explain further?

Maybe I misunderstood, I apologize.

As I guess you're aware we are allowed to modify the USER.CFG, and as far as "LIKE THIS", here's the totality, so far, of what has come from PGI employees on the matter:

--PGI's stand on USER.CFG file modification:
http://mwomercs.com/...wo-game-client/

--Additional confirmation from Bryan Ekman on the subject:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1348473

--PGI's stance on removing the cockpit via USER.CFG changes, as of 2014-01-29:
http://mwomercs.com/...25#entry3108225

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 January 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[Iskareot]

Is it me or is that guy just bad too? Like, I was not impressed at all with the gameplay.


lol ..

[Dimento Graven]

Sterling M Archer, on 29 January 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Then why have a cockpit at all?

That's a great question actually.

If you think about how you play, I would hazard that a majority of it is spent in either 1.5 or 3.0 zoom where your cockpit is either completely, or very nearly so, out of the picture.

For those of you who play in 3PV, there's no cockpit there either.

The cockpit DOES add to the ambiance, and for NEW players it's neat. Showing a game reviewer the different mech's cockpits goes a long way for impressing them, but as far as I know, most game reviewers don't play ONE game day after day after day after day, hours on end, like normal players.

For those of us who have been playing for over 2 years now, it's, "eh, whatever".

What you can fire at is based off your 'mech's arm movement/torso movement parameters, not off your cockpit, and there's extremely little function of the cockpit as most of the 'extra monitors' don't really function, and quickly disappear upon altering FOV.

I think every reasonable person can agree that the cockpit is NOT YET a necessary game play element, and therefore, should be optional.

Iskareot, on 29 January 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Is it me or is that guy just bad too? Like, I was not impressed at all with the gameplay.

lol ..

I look forward to dropping against you some time.

[stjobe]

AFAIK you can't set your cl_fov variable to whatever value you like, there's some sanity checking on it. If needs be, PGI could just go into that method and change the minimum and/or maximum that the game will accept.

At least I wouldn't let a user-editable file determine values in my program without sanity-checking them...

Either way, this thread is moot. PGI reps have said it's okay to alter the cl_fov value in user.cfg; ergo, it can't be cheating if you do so.

[Dimento Graven]

stjobe, on 29 January 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

AFAIK you can't set your cl_fov variable to whatever value you like, there's some sanity checking on it. If needs be, PGI could just go into that method and change the minimum and/or maximum that the game will accept.

At least I wouldn't let a user-editable file determine values in my program without sanity-checking them...

Either way, this thread is moot. PGI reps have said it's okay to alter the cl_fov value in user.cfg; ergo, it can't be cheating if you do so.

PGI addresses that question with the embedded disclaimers of:

Quote

...As always, Support will not be able to troubleshoot or support clients that have modifications to this file. Users can request via Support ticket or forum post that the developers open additional parameters in the user.cfg, and we will determine if the request is reasonable....

and:

Quote

...We do not encourage users to modify the user.cfg file...

and finally:

Quote

...We generally dislike user.cfg changes but it's part of running any game. I do not consider it negative or in anyway a reason to disrespect other players whom are just trying to have fun and change things up with their clients; it's clearly in the spirit of experience and not a tactic to raise someone's skill...

EDIT:
Before I forget, I believe the FOV variable functions between 0 and 179 degrees. At least that's what I've read from the online documentation available for the Crysis engine.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 January 2014 - 02:57 PM.

[Mycrus]

Sandpit, on 29 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Point being, the OP is a violation of the rules, which would be why they were told not to do it. Everyone can do what they want, I just think it's dumb to risk your account over something as silly as this.

What a load of lulwut...

So the op is cheating by having roughly the same fov as any space poor... just no cockpit bezels.. which really amounts to squat. ..


Am i cheating when I run my triple screens and have 66% moar fov than your average space poor?!

I must be cheating also when I use my hotas or my 5760 dpi mouse set at 200 dpi with 1000hz polling rate for those 'skill' shots...

Find another sword to fall on because this line of reasoning is just making you look silly..

[GasBandit]

Madw0lf, on 29 January 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Thig is I like seeing the cockpit, and the glass (when I notice it....) and if I had to deal with the distortion his videos show....like I said it would drive me batty.

Thats not saying it isnt worth a run just for "science"

I give him {Scrap} about his FOV all the time. He says it's because he has an ultrawide monitor, but I've seen his monitor and it's big but 16:9 like the rest of us. I think he's just crosseyed and blind. Plus, how much extra peripheral vision do you get in a Jagermech anyway, with those big side torso fins, eh?

Sterling M Archer, on 29 January 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Then why have a cockpit at all?

Some people like das blinkenlights, I guess. No harm in giving people fluff if it increases their enjoyment.

Edited by GasBandit, 29 January 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Sign]

So here's my beef with this.

I don't care that you remove your cockpit for whatever reason. I don't care if you tweak your game so much that its now blocks of neon moving around.

But this game was touted and advertised as a SIMULATION game, not an arcade game; that was a fundamental design pillar. I want to play with my cockpit glass, against people who also enjoy having it and the immersion into the game, whatever that might entail.

So why should us, the players that bought into the game for that very CORE and FUNDAMENTAL design philosophy, have to get matched against players with these modifications? Sadly as 3pv showed, PGI doesn't care about the their own design parameters, so it's unlikely that we'll have a fix, and unlikely that queues will be split for this.

Once again the game strays farther and farther away from what we in the early days expected, and farther away from it's promised root gameplay elements, and once again the players that wanted a definitive mech simulation get shafted.

[RG Notch]

Sign, on 29 January 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

So here's my beef with this.

I don't care that you remove your cockpit for whatever reason. I don't care if you tweak your game so much that its now blocks of neon moving around.

But this game was touted and advertised as a SIMULATION game, not an arcade game; that was a fundamental design pillar. I want to play with my cockpit glass, against people who also enjoy having it and the immersion into the game, whatever that might entail.

So why should us, the players that bought into the game for that very CORE and FUNDAMENTAL design philosophy, have to get matched against players with these modifications? Sadly as 3pv showed, PGI doesn't care about the their own design parameters, so it's unlikely that we'll have a fix, and unlikely that queues will be split for this.

Once again the game strays farther and farther away from what we in the early days expected, and farther away from it's promised root gameplay elements, and once again the players that wanted a definitive mech simulation get shafted.

Umm what's one more pillar down? PGI hasn't looked back at those pillars once they realized people would pay money for the minimally viable product they shoved out into Open Beta and then launched. You can't sell pillars and catering to the largest demo, i.e. not the people who helped found the game has been their new pillar.
The other reality is due to their blundering there aren't enough of either group, the hard core sim MW fans or the casual arcade stompy robot people to maintain separate queues. That's what happens when you try to appeal to every one with money to spend. They couldn't decide who they could get more money out of, so they are forced to try to appeal to both and half assed it.

[Dean Ackles Winchester]

Dimento Graven, on 28 January 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

Wow, Kyle, I don't know what to say, but I'll start with:

THANK YOU.

Now, clarification time: We've had word from an IGP rep on this thread, one who made the decision (I believe) without knowing how it was done, to tell everyone to NOT use it.

After some 'cajoling' to get her to contact me, even then she didn't ask how it was done, I had to more or less 'press the point' to ensure there was no residual ignorance in the matter.

Given Bryan's comments here, http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1348473, and assuming you now know how to remove the cockpit from the USER.CFG, I am asking for a straight answer:

YES or NO: Can we use this USER.CFG change to remove the cockpit?

Except theres a Reddit thread about this where someone quoted a senior GM that said you CANT use it

http://www.reddit.co...bad_its_not_me/

Quote

Hello


This CVAR will be blocked in the next patch. This alteration does give an unfair advantage to a player which is against our Code of Conduct, however it's not really possible to track so the best we can do is fix it in the next patch, Feb 4th.
Cheers!
Senior GameMaster
MechWarrior® Online™

Editted to fix indent weirdness

Edited by Dean Ackles Winchester, 29 January 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Dean Ackles Winchester, on 29 January 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

Except theres a Reddit thread about this where someone quoted a senior GM that said you CANT use it

http://www.reddit.co...bad_its_not_me/

Again, that statement from the GM was made BEFORE PGI had a chance to review it.

The most recent statement was made early this morning on it.

[Mahws]

It's pretty hard to argue that it doesn't give an advantage, especially on maps with large vertical differences in areas (Alpine, HPG, Tourmaline).

Example:


That's a pretty big advantage on any map with vertical play.

Edited by Mahws, 29 January 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Mahws, on 29 January 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

It's pretty hard to argue that it doesn't give an advantage, especially on maps with large vertical differences in areas (Alpine, HPG, Tourmaline).

Without cockpit:

http://imgur.com/badU611

With cockpit:

http://imgur.com/ceEKzsO

That's a pretty big advantage on any map with vertical play.

What's your FOV set to? In my Jager, even without the cockpit gone, I'd never had that problem firing down.

Next, seeing the spot you're aiming at, I think every 'mech other than the Locust, Commando, and Spider would absolutely still be visible with the cockpit in place, MAYBE, those lights wouldn't be visible, but again, you're talking an EXTREMELY rare occurrence.

I'm sorry you don't like it.

In my opinion the decrease in eye strain, the increase in GPU performance, and overall greater joy in playing the game FAR exceeds the less than single percentage chance of a circumstance where someone without a cockpit MIGHT have slight edge over someone with one.

Again, my opinion.

But hey, it's not like PGI doesn't already CELEBRATE those that mod their systems to create views of the game not common to everyone <cough> Simpits (http://mwomercs.com/...um/243-simpits/).

Take a look at some of the setups in there with multi-monitor setups and near 180 degree views of the game. Setup with top of the line gaming mice, keyboards, and joysticks...

Certainly they have visual, tactical, and performance advantages the vast majority of us just don't have access to.

[Mahws]

1. FoV has no effect on how much of your potential aiming area is blocked by your cockpit.
2. The spot I'm aiming at is called down. Here's another set of shots on Alpine:

Pretty sure you could fit a whole team of Atlai in the amount of view that's blocked by that cockpit.

Obviously players with better set ups are going to have an advantage, a larger wide screen or multiple monitor set up will allow for larger fields of view. However it's also limited by the developers through cockpit windows and exterior geometry (e.g. Jagermech shoulders) from being too big of an advantage.

Turning off the fog on night/heat vision with a tweak would make the game look nicer, improve performance, reduce eyestrain and provide 'greater overall joy', that doesn't mean that it doesn't provide an unfair and unnecessary advantage. There's a reason 3rd person view restricts your arm lock and gives away your position, being able to see things other players can't either puts players at a disadvantage for choosing to play normally or forces them to play in 3rd Person/Without Cockpit in order to be competitive.

Edited by Mahws, 29 January 2014 - 10:35 PM.