54 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

An interesting point of note is that medium Lurmishers (example provided for sake of clarity) can often pull down just as much damage, if not more, than the so-called 'make it rain' Lurmageddon sixty-tube assault 'Mechs, despite having, often, literally half (or less!) the tube and ammo counts.

This is because Lurmageddon assault 'Mechs almost never fire directly, and will generally hurl missiles at every single red box they see whether it's a good target or not. They lose at least half their missiles in bad shots of some sort or another, whether it's shots against targets they didn't know were in cover, shots against enemies in the midst of a pack of AMS, extreme-range shots wherein an enemy moves out of range before the missiles arrive, or just plain losing lock and watching the missiles suck dirt. They only get the numbers they do because the bring ten-plus tons of ammunition and spend the entire match vomiting it up like a terminal drunk at the end of a particularly bad bar binge.

Agile Lurmishing mediums, however - and Catapults/Thunderbolts built for it, to some extent - can first of all achieve and hold their own locks, assuring a minimum of warheads wasted on bad locks (and incidentally not being garbage if their team doesn't like indirect Lurmageddon nonsense 'Mechs). They can pound direct LOS LRM fire into people, stacking Artemis and TAG for maximum salvo concentration in order to focus their damage and ensure a minimum of warheads wasted on loose salvos that impact the ground around a target's feet as much as the target itself. They get more kills with tighter, denser missile salvos and are taken by surprise less often as they can see where the fight is going, what it's doing, and where they need to be next. They don't really carry effective backup armaments - the lasers on most Lurmisher mediums are a token holdout pistol more than a serious armament, and some folks recommend dropping them altogether for more LRM ammunition - but they also don't need backup armaments as much due to being able to move and react better.

If you're going to learn to Lurm, learn to do it properly. Direct LOS fire makes much better use of your ammunition than indirect shenanigans-fire does; fire indirect if you have to, but only in passing on your way to getting a proper lock on the battle yourself. Whether you do it in a missile medium like the Kintaro or Trebuchet or in an up-engined Catapult, it's still the best way to make every missile you carry onto the field matter.

[SnagaDance]

That's the cautious way to play an Assault missile boat. Instead you can keep up with the brawler Assaults, hanging back just a little bit and support them at short range sharing direct sight on their targets. Short missile flight times, better awereness on what are 'solid'locks and what are not, rescuers that are close by in case of enemy lights, lots of good things for this playing style.

This Awesome 8R is a deadly missile boat: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b09bd37745b0d74

And I've gotten kills with those 3 ML as well. Sure they were damaged but you shouldn't be in a position where you end up facing unscathed enemy mechs. Scared enough Lights away with them as well.

You can take out the AMS+ammo+ 0,5t of armor for 2 more tons of Lrm ammo if you find you need it.

[Deathsani]

I don't play assaults, they don't have the dynamic feel that I like about lights and mediums. And I almost always get my own locks. I am not gonna blow tonnage on arti to lose the advantage on hiding. The only reason I am moving up to heavy is that I can't find a chassis that I like, though I will be keeping an eye out on the griffin.

[Buckminster]

Go ahead and take a look at the Shadow Hawk -2D2. It has the same hard points as that Griffin, with a slightly different layout. And it's currently available!

[Deathsani]

Update to all those involved, I picked up the CAT's. I haven't purchased the c4 yet but so far the c1 is pretty rockin'. Maneuverable with a 300xl and I can do plenty of direct fire damage with two alrm15's. I like having three ml's, but I will be able to explore more weapons when I get the platform mastered.

[J I N]

Hi,
I mastered CATs and played the A1 for a long time, but they don't feel right for me... It's far to easy to loose your ears early in a match and you will fbe bored, even if it is only one ear...
Two days ago I tried a Kintaro and it feels more balanced. You have an arm mounted TAG 3 to 5 LRMs and ML backup in them with acceptable speed for 55t. For me it's much more fun to chainfire my 3 LRM10 with my KTO-20 right now, than I ever had in an Catapult.

The 20 is my first Kintaro and I had to stop it, because of my new Firebrand. (couldn't resist to get my first Hero^^) I will definitely sell my CATs for these mediums, which feel much more durable and get higher scores as LRM support.
I would recommend to test them on your own, before you judge them. You will be surprised.

PS: Golden Boy seems to be fun... is it worth the MC?

[Buckminster]

Cat C1, 2 ALRM15s, 2 Large lasers, TAG; with a 245XL and jump jets. Try it.

Edit: actually, the 245 is bad advice, get the 250. I just happened to have one when I was making this build, so I used it.

Edited by Buckminster, 09 February 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Buckminster, on 09 February 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Cat C1, 2 ALRM15s, 2 Large lasers, TAG; with a 245XL and jump jets. Try it.

Edit: actually, the 245 is bad advice, get the 250. I just happened to have one when I was making this build, so I used it.

Get the 255, it weighs the same as a 250.

[zagibu]

C1 is an excellent choice, good balance between LRMs and energy. And you can bring your own tag without making you helpless in close combat.

[MountainCopper]

A Trebuchet is already overburdened with 2xLRM15/A, 3xML and a TAG. A Kintaro will do this exact build with more armour AND be faster.

Both missile variants of the Hunchback now have the same amount of missile tubes as I understand it. A strange move to make the 4J even less popular, but that's the way it is now...
So a 4SP can do the same as the 4J but will miss out on one energy hardpoint. 5xML, TAG, 2xLRM10/A and XL275 will make a fast, small LRM launcher (or 2xML, 3xSL, TAG, 2xLRM10/A, AMS).

A Catapult will have the same build but have LRM40/A and JumpJets.

The trial Stalker out right now with LRM60/A, 4xML and a TAG will allow you to try out a slow LRM heaven. Played 100 matches in this, and it's fun when the team works with you.
Just remember that
1. you'll get a heat penalty when you fire more than 2 of the LRM15 launchers in a short time
2. you will lose against lights and only have 4xML for defence against attackers
3. you are utterly dependent on your team to defend you and provide targets
4. you have a XL engine and most armour is allocated to the front
5. you don't have enough ammunition to fire at every target which appears for 3 seconds on the radar

Edited by GoldenFleece, 13 February 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[SerratedBlaze]

I play a C1 (and I know it looks horrible but its actually working for me better than more rounded versions I've tried) CPLT-C1 http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c5bf3b1b180481
and love it, but this build has been bothering me because It's straight up better except for the lack of tag. Orion ON1-VA http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a45bc37bfbd556e Oh and no JJ which is legitimately sad. JJ really help catapults maneuver to take leg damage from lights instead of CT and rotate to keep them in sight. Plus poptarting with tag is fun. At one point I was running 2LRM20+A, 2ERPPC, and tag with 18 armor (still died from cockpit kills a lot back then) to jump snipe/lock and shoot missiles from cover. Modules are a must.

Edited by SerratedBlaze, 14 February 2014 - 11:44 PM.

[Victor Morson]

OP: You do not want a Catapult. They are not very good missile 'mechs as they're too slow and have very easily blown off missile racks, really. The C4 makes the best boat of the bunch (NOT the A1) as it can equip TAG, but it's still poor.

Mediums are definitely where LRMs are best - in particular the Shadow Hawk 2D2 and the Griffin. Check out my guide on LRMs HERE.

There's tons of bad advice floating around about LRMs; the long and short of it that you need enough missiles per salvo to crack AMS (and enough tubes to support it), you need TAG, Artemis, BAP and finally enough speed to maintain optimal range. Jump jets, as you noted in the OP, really help as well.

Anyway if you have any questions feel free to drop me a reply anywhere!

[Buckminster]

Victor Morson, on 15 February 2014 - 02:52 AM, said:

OP: You do not want a Catapult. They are not very good missile 'mechs as they're too slow and have very easily blown off missile racks, really. The C4 makes the best boat of the bunch (NOT the A1) as it can equip TAG, but it's still poor.

I'll agree that the ears of the Catapults make great targets, but they are not too slow. Get a high rated XL engine in them and they are easily moving 80+ kph.

Another downside of the Catapult is that their energy slots are in the torso, ideally you'd want them in the arms where you get a much better range of motion. You don't want to have to stare down your opponents to TAG them.

I've had good success with my C1 as a hybrid missile boat - 2 ARLM15s, 2 large lasers and TAG.

[wintersborn]

I have my fair share of time in some CAT's and I would not recommend them, instead I would recommend going for the Stalker if you want to focus on or Boat LRM's.

I like to play LRM boats because of the challenge but the CAT, to me is not fast enough, is too big a target and does not weight enough to really boat LRM's.

The worst thing to me about the CAT chassis is the ugly add on boxes they decided to make, its ugly and stupid.

If you want to skirmish or just use LRM's as something other than a main weapon then I think the Griffin? or Treb. may be a good choice but they are mediums.

I would also recommend a Atlas AS7-D (ECM) as a long range LRM and AC/5 support option if you have ever wanted to try Assaults out. This was my first mech that I broke 1k damage in a pug with and it was allot of fun but its slow and a big target.

[Deathsani]

So far the big thing that is killing my enthusiasm is the thought of mastering the k2.

[Bhelogan]

My personal opinion, but this is the current best LRM boat: BLR-1S

[InFocus]

I had to reply to this thread when I read that the A1 is not good choice, it is. The A1 is my Cat of choice. I run two configurations: (1) 2 LRM 15s with 4 SSRM2, and BAP, (2) 6 LRM5s with all the ammo I can carry. As far as getting your "ears" blown off, as the pilot you have to twist to spread the damage around the torso and arms. With the BAP, there is noting funnier than having a ECM shielded light run in to me, only to watch them back pedal and/or jump away when the streaks slam into them. With the 6 LRM5 build you will have the joy of watching an assault melt, a heavy shatter and a medium splat as the rain of missiles soaks them. The A1 has a different play style than the other Cats, but it is a viable variant. The other posters aright that when the "ears" get blown of you are useless, but most mechs lose viability when they lose their arms.

Edited by InFocus, 16 February 2014 - 05:02 AM.

[Fuggles]

Deathsani, on 15 February 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

So far the big thing that is killing my enthusiasm is the thought of mastering the k2.

you dont have to get the k2 if you dont want although its a perfectly fine mech with lots of builds you can run. if you dont want to though pick the a1, c1, c4. just please please dont run the a1 with 6 lrm5s.

the C1, just modify the stock loadout. 4 meds and 2 alrm15s.
C4, ive been running 2 alrm15s, 2 ssrm2s and 2 mlas. been having good luck with this build lately, very versatile.
A1, id suggest 2alrm15s, 4ssrms. although i dont run this variant.

if you noticed, ive given up on tag. i know its usefull i just prefer having the extra laser and to be honest, i havent missed it.

another mech that i run LRMs with and i have been VERY succesfull with is the orion. i run the V, with 3 alrm15s 2mlas and alot of ammo, xl320.

Edited by Fuggles, 16 February 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Deathsani, on 15 February 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

So far the big thing that is killing my enthusiasm is the thought of mastering the k2.

K2 is a great Twin Gauss / Twin AC/20 'mech. It's one of the best pults even.

Buckminster, on 15 February 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

I'll agree that the ears of the Catapults make great targets, but they are not too slow. Get a high rated XL engine in them and they are easily moving 80+ kph.

Another downside of the Catapult is that their energy slots are in the torso, ideally you'd want them in the arms where you get a much better range of motion. You don't want to have to stare down your opponents to TAG them.

I've had good success with my C1 as a hybrid missile boat - 2 ARLM15s, 2 large lasers and TAG.

Of the Catapults, C4 is definitely the best for missiles. You can run a 2 15s/20s, 2 5s, and a TAG on it pretty easily. The A1 shows up all the time but it's vastly, vastly inferior to the C4.*

* If SRMs stopped sucking, the A1 would do that well.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 February 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Buckminster]

Fuggles, on 16 February 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

A1, id suggest 2alrm15s, 4ssrms. although i dont run this variant.

This is the A1 build I've been running, and it works very well. Artemis and BAP are absolutely crucial for it though. Since your life depends on that missile lock you want it ASAP, and don't want to have to worry about ECM.

Another thing worth mentioning, is make sure that you leave at least one jump jet on. I'll shave a few off for weight, but you never want to get rid of all of them.