38 replies to this topic

[Therrinian]

The OP is neglecting one of the most important 100 in era mechs.

Namely the Devastator, 100 ton, double gauss, double ppc, quad medium laser.

Obviously OP So i get why its not in the game... but a guy can dream...

[Critical Rocket]

Devastator would be fine when you consider how many dual gauss mechs are already running around MWO anyway. At least a legit 100 ton mech that uses them as standard would be less egregious than the Cataphract and Jager builds out there.

[Darth Futuza]

...course that'd be bending the timeline a bit...

[HammerSwarm]

Therrinian, on 28 January 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

The OP is neglecting one of the most important 100 in era mechs.

Namely the Devastator, 100 ton, double gauss, double ppc, quad medium laser.

Obviously OP So i get why its not in the game... but a guy can dream...

It's on TRO 3058 not TRO 3050 which is why I left it off.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator
It could be an alternate if it had 3 time period appropriate variants and a reason for existing.

James Heywood, on 28 January 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Devastator would be fine when you consider how many dual gauss mechs are already running around MWO anyway. At least a legit 100 ton mech that uses them as standard would be less egregious than the Cataphract and Jager builds out there.

Amen, at least a Cataphract coming around a corner with dual Gauss would {Scrap} itself when it ran into a bigger badder mech with better weapons.

Think that boom Jager with an XL engine, and 2x A/C 20s wants to run into an Annihilator with 4 LB-X 10s? and 3 Medium lasers? Nope.

Edited by HammerSwarm, 28 January 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Coralld]

King Crab, yes, a thousand times yes. Imp, sure, after all it looks like a Urbi on steroids. Annihilator, no, just... No.

[Bagheera]

I like the slightly out of the box thinking, but I'd rather see an SLDF pack or a 3055 "melee" pack (with the 3 melee weapon toting ECM mechs in it), or something else with more weight variety. The game is already AssaultFest more often than not, and frankly I doubt we'll see the Annihilator in game anyway.

[Lexx]

I'd rather see us get a 95 ton mech before we get any 100 tonners.

PGI has already mentioned one that I hope we will be seeing soon.

[Tenatius B]

Gimme. Gimee gimme gimee.

giveittomeno.gif

shutupandtakemymoney.jpg

etc...

[HammerSwarm]

Coralld, on 28 January 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

King Crab, yes, a thousand times yes. Imp, sure, after all it looks like a Urbi on steroids. Annihilator, no, just... No.

But mecha gauzilla!!!!

Bagheera, on 29 January 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

I like the slightly out of the box thinking, but I'd rather see an SLDF pack or a 3055 "melee" pack (with the 3 melee weapon toting ECM mechs in it), or something else with more weight variety. The game is already AssaultFest more often than not, and frankly I doubt we'll see the Annihilator in game anyway.

Tonnage limits are an important part of this plan, at least for 12 v 12 and merc/loyalist play. Further I think the novelty of the assaults would wear off after a week or two as people try them out and then back burner them. I mean how often do you see 4+ shadow hawks now days, they're old hat at this point.

I'd love a melee pack but unless they speed up the timeline which they seem unwilling to do we're not getting a 3055 pack for 4-5 years.

Lexx, on 29 January 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

I'd rather see us get a 95 ton mech before we get any 100 tonners.

PGI has already mentioned one that I hope we will be seeing soon.

One doesn't limit the other, I disagree in the order but you are free to feel how you do.

My feeling come from the relatively fast striking mechs which are the battlemaster and awesome at in the 80-85 ton range. My opinion is that there are several options for assault strikers already. But it should be added to put all options where they should be for game balance.

Edited by HammerSwarm, 29 January 2014 - 12:12 PM.

[Bagheera]

HammerSwarm, on 29 January 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Tonnage limits are an important part of this plan, at least for 12 v 12 and merc/loyalist play. Further I think the novelty of the assaults would wear off after a week or two as people try them out and then back burner them. I mean how often do you see 4+ shadow hawks now days, they're old hat at this point.

I'd love a melee pack but unless they speed up the timeline which they seem unwilling to do we're not getting a 3055 pack for 4-5 years.

Fair point that the "new and shiny" effect only lasts for a short time, and I am looking forward to tonnage limits though I don't have terribly high expectations of them doing much except eliminating the "all assault lance."

As far as the timeline, we won't see 3055 for a while but I don't think they can stay 1:1 and keep a fast enough release pace to maintain a decent income. Many of the 3055 designs were "clan invasion response" designs, so they make sense as a release down the road. We'll have to wait, but I doubt 5 real time years. One can hope anyway.

[Coralld]

HammerSwarm, on 29 January 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

But mecha gauzilla!!!!

[Rebas Kradd]

I agree the Atlas is overrated, but I don't think the answer is to give it more ballistics. We've already got the Jagermech.

[HammerSwarm]

Rebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I agree the Atlas is overrated, but I don't think the answer is to give it more ballistics. We've already got the Jagermech.

Part of why the Jagger feels so over powered is the lack of a heavier counter. A Jagger can pack an xl. No backups 2 gauss and tons of ammo precisely because a 3 gauss Annihilator isn't coming over the horizon. Having a larger but impractically slow counter to under armored xl heavies is the solution.

[Rebas Kradd]

HammerSwarm, on 31 January 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Part of why the Jagger feels so over powered is the lack of a heavier counter. A Jagger can pack an xl. No backups 2 gauss and tons of ammo precisely because a 3 gauss Annihilator isn't coming over the horizon. Having a larger but impractically slow counter to under armored xl heavies is the solution.

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this. A Jagermech is a sufficient counter to a Jagermech and it still doesn't reduce the meta. Throwing in Annihilators will only prompt the other team to bring in their own Annihilators, thus maintaining the meta. What we need is a nerf to ballistics themselves, though most solutions I've seen (removing convergence, revamping heat sinks) aren't the answer either.

[Grey Black]

My only problem is the Annihilator, properly speaking, isn't an Inner Sphere mech. In fact, the Dragoons didn't start selling them until the Jihad if Sarna is to be believed. As such, consider this replacement:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator

2x Gauss Rifle, 2x PPCs, 4 medium lasers, and 3 canon configs in timeline. What's not to love?

EDIT: Same problem with the Imp. Maybe add a Mackie instead? Because who doesn't love the Mackie?

Edited by Grey Black, 01 February 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Critical Rocket]

The Devastator was added back in the 80's but not in a TRO. The mech is originally a Star League design that took part in the liberation of Terra, so some do exist in the Inner Sphere just not many.

[HammerSwarm]

Rebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this. A Jagermech is a sufficient counter to a Jagermech and it still doesn't reduce the meta. Throwing in Annihilators will only prompt the other team to bring in their own Annihilators, thus maintaining the meta. What we need is a nerf to ballistics themselves, though most solutions I've seen (removing convergence, revamping heat sinks) aren't the answer either.

You can feel free to correct my line of thinking on this if you disagree.

I see mechs as having clear vulnerabilities in three areas. heavier mechs, lighter mechs, and better piloting.

A spider, and a fast medium would crush an annihilator as it takes seconds to turn around Simply standing behind it with low torso twist and slow foot speed would limit the Anni in a way that a heavy trying to get behind it could not muster.

In rock paper scissors (the game of ultimate round robin balance) Rock is only a stalemate for rock. A Jager is only a stalemate for a Jager depending on pilot skill, so the best of the best becomes unbeatable. If you want the Jager to be as vulnerable as every other mech in game is it needs a larger counter.

Now assaults have 2 smaller counters in mediums and lights so that works. Lights have 2 larger counters in mediums and heavies.

Light beats some heavies and assaults ties lights
Mediums beats light, and some assaults ties mediums
Heavies beat mediums and some lights while tying other heavies
Assaults own heavies, some mediums and tie assaults

That is balance by broad stroke, you also have to figure mech role into this.

Brawler or Sniper or LRMS or Hybrid.

Now when you work all of that out with balance for in game conditions you should have a very balanced game. (In theory)

I think the Jager in pub play is a result of a lack of balance. You tell me what you think?

[Spokig]

The more stompy mech i get to rack kills with the happier i get... You please your god well Hammer!

[HammerSwarm]

Spokig, on 08 February 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

The more stompy mech i get to rack kills with the happier i get... You please your god well Hammer!

Spokig has a stuffed yeti in his trophy room, add that to the list of things spokig has killed.

Glad you are interested in more larger mechs.