20 replies to this topic

[Krujiente]

I see SO MANY ASSAULTS, with GIANT DELICIOUSLY PLATED ARMS. Getting cored out in a brawl with barely any orange armor anywhere. They just stare at you and alpha is long as they can until they get hot and then complain when my half-your-weight mech murders them on this forum. Alpha your load of lasers/heavy ballistics/SRMS and twist, present your dummy arms.
A brawler shouldn't have strong guns on its arms. It needs to block shots with them so just MLs or machine guns or whatever goes on there is what you need to not die painfully. This is why AC2s have a high DPS/ton ratio and are still pretty lousy in the grand scheme of things.
Why are highlanders victors and catas all meta-whoretastic? They're heavy, they jump, they have giant arms to protect to their precious center torso and they can load pinpoint alpha weapons up to 40 points. This is forcing you tear them apart limb from limb to kill them, a lot of their poptart guns are on their arms, shoot them in the arms. A brawler's strongest guns are on the side torsos generally which is SRMs and heavy ballistics like the Orion or the Atlas or an erray of lasers like the battlemasters. A brawler should beat a poptart in close range because once you tear off his ballistic arm he's pretty vulnerable, the problem is getting there.

In short. Don't just stare at your enemy, figure out their rhythm of fire, and turn your arm to them when they do fire. Its a guessing game and a thinking man's game. I poop on AC40 jagers because I do this. I want to see you guys losing all your arms, and maybe your side torsos before you go down this will triple the amount of damage it takes to kill you. On my Thunderbolts, Quickdraws and Centurions I am often torn away of at least 2 or 3 sections (on the centurion I often am left with just a leg before going down) before my center torso goes. You're not as fast and can't twist as well, but you can do it, you'd be surprised how much long you last just absorbing even a couple alphas doing this.

[AaronWolf]

That is all I will say.

[Davinelulinvega]

now you told them the secret
how shall I be able to centercore them assaults down now?

[Krujiente]

I know right, my medium game shall forever be sad if I see a whole host on assaults swinging their torsos. But eh worth a shot, I need friendly assaults to have more armor then I do.

[Koniving]

Krujiente, on 27 January 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Don't just stare at your enemy, figure out their rhythm of fire, and turn your arm to them when they do fire.

Anyone remember this?

Koniving, on 22 January 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

1, 2, 3, Twist! (AC/20 round hits arm). Twist back, return fire. 2, 3, twist! (AC/20 round hits other arm). Twist back, return fire, return fire, twist away (AC/20 round blocked again).

Original quote location.

Using arms to defend self from attacks above; Atlas survives after comrade dies; continues to survive til end of match even while trying to ram lights. (I don't actually do the twist and shoot thing that I used to do in closed beta, but I did sacrifice the arms to defend against LRMs, streaks, and overhead fire.)

Edited by Koniving, 27 January 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[NRP]

Brawling is a lost art, every since SRMs were "fixed" and became unreliable.

But don't worry, back in those days the whiny chorus was "Brawl Warrior Online", just like it's "poptart Warrior Online" now. Basically, the only consistency this community shows is the ability to whine and snivel.

[Koniving]

NRP, on 27 January 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

Brawling is a lost art, every since SRMs were "fixed" and became unreliable.

Depends on what you brawl with and brawl against. You'd be surprised as it still is possible. Chain fire the SRMs instead for significantly better hit detection.

You just can't do this anymore.


When SRMs got completely nerfed to the ground. 4 kills, 426 damage.


After SRMs got fixed. Lots of kills, 500+ damage after fighting 4 or 5 enemies at once; including having more than 3 minutes of a Cataphract behind me with multiple ACs and good aim. Poor guy didn't know my rear armor was quite high.

Stealth assassinations + brawling.

Black Flamer Stalker in Terra Therma stages power-down base defense ambush.

After Ghost Heat (suffering it heavily without knowing the limit on the SRM-4s went lower)

Brawling isn't truly lost. It's just lost on those who rely on alpha-warrior and the metas.

Edited by Koniving, 27 January 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

Must use this tactic even on my medium shadow. My left arm is completely empty and useless... Has the making for a decent shield once or twice.

At least so I stop getting cored with my XL engine.

[Krujiente]

I use srms a lot,(I play an old zombiecent CN9-A) chainfire helps and for some reason Artemis SEEMS to. I lose hit detection a little bit on everything though from PPCs to AC20s so it tends to bother me less. As far as brawling being a lost art, along with SRMs when they work: MPLs are still pretty great for it, and if you build appropriately 1 ERPPC. (I said one damnit) That .6 burn times versus the 1 second burn time is surprisingly helpful, especially against lights. I run a HBK-4P with 6 MLs and 3 MPLs, this way I can alpha the whole thing with no ghost heat for 48 points of damage at a single hitscan point. Devastating first strike protential on a sneak attack. and the mpls are still great for not dying painfully. The 6 MLs are nice in a pinch but because they are torso mounted, and have a full second of burn time, they are better for flanking and medium range target softening.

[AaronWolf]

Koniving, on 27 January 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

Depends on what you brawl with and brawl against. You'd be surprised as it still is possible. Chain fire the SRMs instead for significantly better hit detection.

You just can't do this anymore.


When SRMs got completely nerfed to the ground. 4 kills, 426 damage.


After SRMs got fixed. Lots of kills, 500+ damage after fighting 4 or 5 enemies at once; including having more than 3 minutes of a Cataphract behind me with multiple ACs and good aim. Poor guy didn't know my rear armor was quite high.

Stealth assassinations + brawling.

Black Flamer Stalker in Terra Therma stages power-down base defense ambush.

After Ghost Heat (suffering it heavily without knowing the limit on the SRM-4s went lower)

Brawling isn't truly lost. It's just lost on those who rely on alpha-warrior and the metas.

I noticed this when using SRM's on my mechs.

I even do it on my 4SP with only two 4ASRM's. It seems to register the damage far better.

[Davinelulinvega]

the artemis cause the srm volley to be packed tighter, thus hitting more of them. there was a video about this on the forums but I'm to lazy to search it

[AaronWolf]

Davinelulinvega, on 28 January 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

the artemis cause the srm volley to be packed tighter, thus hitting more of them. there was a video about this on the forums but I'm to lazy to search it

Just because they are packed tighter doesn't mean that they cannot (Or can) register on impact.

I've more then once point-blanked ASRM's/SRM's into a target and seen nothing done to their armor except a flash of damage on an arm or torso. With no change in color.

Then there are times I have done said pointblank and it tears through the mech like tissue paper.

Just found it is more reliable to chain them over alpha'ing them, it seems to help the servers respond to the damage better.

Edited by AaronWolf, 28 January 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Davinelulinvega]

well, it helps that IF they register, they register on less different locations than without, thus giving a little more "pinpoint damage" to them. also less srms will miss entirely.
very true with the chainfire though, I stepped back from the "volley of doom" of 14 srms with a ac20 slug inside to quick triple click chainfire and get far better results, even if that makes it a bit harder (need 1 more weapon group).
still I also have the (unproven) feel they would register better, but actually I mostly don't have the time to look at the paper doll long enough to see where and how the individual shots register in the middle of a brawl.
hm, maybe I should get to testing grounds to check this...

[AaronWolf]

Davinelulinvega, on 28 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

well, it helps that IF they register, they register on less different locations than without, thus giving a little more "pinpoint damage" to them. also less srms will miss entirely.
very true with the chainfire though, I stepped back from the "volley of doom" of 14 srms with a ac20 slug inside to quick triple click chainfire and get far better results, even if that makes it a bit harder (need 1 more weapon group).
still I also have the (unproven) feel they would register better, but actually I mostly don't have the time to look at the paper doll long enough to see where and how the individual shots register in the middle of a brawl.
hm, maybe I should get to testing grounds to check this...

Yep. True.

Which is why I am more a fan of the SRM4's lately. Their pattern seems FAR tighter then the 6's. And I may even drop to 2's for the heck of it. Less heat, more spam, more weight to play with.

[Rebas Kradd]

Nuances like this are lost in the current meta. Too much damage output. Everything's a fragfest.

[DrRedCoat]

Everyone should spend some time in a centurion. That shield arm taught me a lesson in twisting that no other mech ever could.

[cSand]

Rebas Kradd, on 28 January 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Nuances like this are lost in the current meta. Too much damage output. Everything's a fragfest.

Speaking solely for yourself, of course

[Fut]

DrRedCoat, on 28 January 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Everyone should spend some time in a centurion. That shield arm taught me a lesson in twisting that no other mech ever could.

Piloting a Hunchback teaches the same lesson; learn to twist, or get used to being destroyed very quickly.

[Rebas Kradd]

cSand, on 28 January 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Speaking solely for yourself, of course

I'm not even remotely speaking for myself, and I am in fact one of PGI's biggest defenders.

But a lot of MW nuances are lost because of the high damage output in this game. Brawling, maneuvering, spotting, targeting specific components, all lost because OH **** THERE ARE TWELVE MECHS RIGHT THERE and you don't have time to really get in close and focus on an opponent. MechWarrior should feature one-on-one duels.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Fut, on 28 January 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

Piloting a Hunchback teaches the same lesson; learn to twist, or get used to being destroyed very quickly.

I will second this, but urge at least some of the players to the centurion more as they can learn to shield themselves whilst still returning fire easier - AFTER they unlock the arms of course ; }