58 replies to this topic

[SweetJackal]

Wait a minute. I've never looked into purchasing premium time as I don't plan to cash that stuff in until there is enough meat on the bones to actually hook me for a significant length of time.

So Premium Time is $30 a month?! If so, holy cheese balls! That would show some serious inflation.

[Motroid]

Ngamok, on 28 January 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

At any point, Blizzard can take everything away. Then you have nothing.

The same is true for Valve's Steam. Sad but true.

[Spheroid]

^Game files reside on your harddrive. If Steam went under tomorrow it would not stop me from playing my legal copy of Railroad Tycoon 2 in offline mode.

[Myke Pantera]

xhrit, on 02 February 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Zynga is worth 7 billion dollars.
Nexon is worth 4.3 billion dollars.
Perfect World Entertainment is worth 954 million dollars.
And players can earn everything they need to play all of their games for free. ( farmville, words with friends, neverwinter, star trek online, maple story, jade dynasty, etc )

There is stuff players need to play the game, that they have to buy for real money. This is a bad f2p model. It leads to people like OP who get frustrated with the game. People who get frustrated will ragequit. That is bad for a game, because people who ragequit a game do not spend any more money on it, ever.

http://www.forbes.co...rotransactions/

Here is an article on forbes calling out Mechwarrior Online by name as having a bad f2p model.

Well maybe you are right, and this game is too expensive, and the F2P model stinks. I have to admit i'm not vastly experienced in this whole F2P thingy. I don't like all those web games and mobile apps where you need to be careful not to click on all those ads scattered across the screen.

I just think someone has to play for the graphics engine and the BT licence, and since they don't do it via advertisement, i find it reasonable that they want some money for this game. But yeah, the mech prices aren't exactly generous and colors and schemes and cockpit items really need to be grindable somehow. Something like loyalty credits earned for daily/monthly achievments would be nice.

[xhrit]

Myke Pantera, on 02 February 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well maybe you are right, and this game is too expensive, and the F2P model stinks. I have to admit i'm not vastly experienced in this whole F2P thingy. I don't like all those web games and mobile apps where you need to be careful not to click on all those ads scattered across the screen.

I just think someone has to play for the graphics engine and the BT licence, and since they don't do it via advertisement, i find it reasonable that they want some money for this game. But yeah, the mech prices aren't exactly generous and colors and schemes and cockpit items really need to be grindable somehow. Something like loyalty credits earned for daily/monthly achievments would be nice.

It is one of those things that seems counterintuitive at first, but all the data supports it. if they gave out a random number of MC a day, say 15-30, they would get more sales.

First off it would allow PGI to offer truly powerful hero mechs, as no one would be able to complain they were p2w, since evryone could in theroy grind daily quests for them.

Secondly, for every person who thinks "oh cool, free mc, I can buy that uber cool hero now", there will be a person who gets half way through playing hours every day for months to afford it, and thinks "damn, this mech is taking too long to unlock, how do I get it faster? oh right, I can just buy the rest of the MC I need."

[Dirus Nigh]

xhrit, on 02 February 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Zynga is worth 7 billion dollars.
Nexon is worth 4.3 billion dollars.
Perfect World Entertainment is worth 954 million dollars.
And players can earn everything they need to play all of their games for free. ( farmville, words with friends, neverwinter, star trek online, maple story, jade dynasty, etc )



There is stuff players need to play the game, that they have to buy for real money. This is a bad f2p model. It leads to people like OP who get frustrated with the game. People who get frustrated will ragequit. That is bad for a game, because people who ragequit a game do not spend any more money on it, ever.

You completely wrong. I have played many of those games you listed and there are many things you cannot get with out paying money.

For example Star Trek Online, which I was a closed/open beta tester for, and played for over a year after launch. Then several months after it was turned into a free to play. Took a long brake, then played again for a few months.

Star trek gives you a handful of character slots. If you want more you must pay real money. I bought to extra slots.

There are at least two races that cannot be played unless you buy them for real money.

There are bridge officers you cannot use unless you pay real money.

There are drop boxes that can only be opened with a matching key. You can only get this key if you spend real money.

There are ships that can only be used if you spend real money. They are much like the hero mechs in MWO. However they also come with an item exclusive to the purchase of that ship. By the way. The Enterprise F which the concept art was turned into a community contest, can only be bought with real money.

Seriously PGI this is a great Idea. STO went to the player community and made the new 1701 F a contest. The winner became the new Enterprise.

A character does gain ship slots as they gain rank. However there is a limit. If you want more ship slots you must pay real money.

There are costume and ship interiors that can only be purchased with real money.

Players are limited to the number of missions they can publish from the editor. You can publish more if you spend real money.

As you see there is a whole lot of stuff that is not accessible to players with out spending real world money. However like MWO non of it is needed to play the game.

MWO gives you four free mech bays, the ability to buy any chassis, and variant (except hero/champions). You can also buy any module you want with C-Bills. Excluding the MC consumables, which the C-Bill versions are good enough, buying the MC ones is just silly. Then there are paint and skins. Just like every other F2P game paint and skins cost money. PGI even gives you five colors you can buy for C-Bills.

There are no salvage boxes that can only be opened with pay for keys. There are no weapons that can only be payed for with money. There are no maps you can only use by paying money.

As for the value of those companies you mentioned. They are worth that because they have been around longer, and brand recognition. Perfect World has the license for 2 big name IPs for games. Dungeons & Dragons and mother ******* STAR TREK. Two IPs with a sizable fan base, and a name that almost every house hold knows.

I have spent more money on STO than I have MWO. Every thing I have bought was never needed to play the game. It was all extra toys for my own amusement.

There is nothing in MWO that you must buy in order to play the game. The only real criticism I have is that Hero mechs do not come with a mech bay for it.

[6xero9]

Quote

As for the value of those companies you mentioned. They are worth that because they have been around longer, and brand recognition.

MWO also has a brand with a sizable fan base, yet, compared to Warframe, MWO is a trial version of the game until you pay. Atleast in Warframe there is trading mods for platinum (they also start you off with 50 free platinum) Granted, people are still paying so you don't have to but it is a way to allow true F2P. Other wise, the ones who don't want to spend money could be at a disadvantage to the ones who do.

[xhrit]

Dirus Nigh, on 02 February 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

As you see there is a whole lot of stuff that is not accessible to players with out spending real world money. However like MWO non of it is needed to play the game.

You can buy zen with dilithium crystals using the Dilithium Exchange. If you want extra character slots or unique hero ships or whatever, you go to the exhange and buy some zen using using in game currency. For those that dont know, Zen is STO's equivalent of MC, and is the currency that all cash store items are sold in.

Thus, free to play players in STO can buy everything that you spend real mony to buy. Sure there is stuff free players cant buy anymore, but it is mostly holdovers from before STO was F2P. ( that, and time limited exclusive objects, but those are totally fine as long as they are avaliable using in game currency when they debut )

Edited by xhrit, 02 February 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[Zerberoff]

xhrit, on 02 February 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

You can buy zen with dilithium crystals using the Dilithium Exchange.

Not exactly...
You can buy Zen with Dilithium from Players who buyed the Zen before with real money.

Dilithium is needed for serveral things in STO and the only way to get it is either a massive grind or Buying it from Players for Zen.

[Dan Nashe]

My problem is I don't know who to be mad at. Basically, I'm growing to hate ftp, because the way it seems to work is that 10 percent of the population has to pay 3x as much to get 90 percent of the content of a pay to play game.
BUT there's a legit reason to some extent: free players are content and premium mmos are expensive.

So I don't know for sure if mwos model is where it needs to be to keep development moving.
I don't know the culprit:

Are prices ridiculous because the premium f2p needs it?
Are they high just because some folks will spend $30 a month?
Are they high because of bad business decisions?

Here's why it COULD be a bad decision:
As long as this is one of my prime games, I will pay $15 a month regardless of costs.
But... despite spending $185 on this game I've mastered all my mechs and am broke.
There are mechs I want, but I've spent to the cap and the grind is too much.
So I start thinking I'll wait for a good sale and for time to pass so I spend more money..
But if I don't log in regularly, I suddenly lose interest in new shinies.

In contrast, if premium time cost the same but awarded 10 mc a win, it would feel like a real subscription and give me access to all content.
Now I would consider a recurring 30 days of premium time.
Once I have premium time, I'm motivated to log in and not waste it.

But right now? All premium time gets you is in game currency, only 50 percent more, for the same cost as a full wow subscription...
I get that paint is cosmetic, but mechbays and mechs, even heros, are not. They are core gameplay elements, and $15 a month ought to provide some access to all gameplay affecting content. But right now, its not even close. The clan pack alone is over a year of WoW time.

[xTrident]

DanNashe, on 03 February 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

My problem is I don't know who to be mad at. Basically, I'm growing to hate ftp, because the way it seems to work is that 10 percent of the population has to pay 3x as much to get 90 percent of the content of a pay to play game.
BUT there's a legit reason to some extent: free players are content and premium mmos are expensive.

So I don't know for sure if mwos model is where it needs to be to keep development moving.
I don't know the culprit:

Are prices ridiculous because the premium f2p needs it?
Are they high just because some folks will spend $30 a month?
Are they high because of bad business decisions?

Here's why it COULD be a bad decision:
As long as this is one of my prime games, I will pay $15 a month regardless of costs.
But... despite spending $185 on this game I've mastered all my mechs and am broke.
There are mechs I want, but I've spent to the cap and the grind is too much.
So I start thinking I'll wait for a good sale and for time to pass so I spend more money..
But if I don't log in regularly, I suddenly lose interest in new shinies.

In contrast, if premium time cost the same but awarded 10 mc a win, it would feel like a real subscription and give me access to all content.
Now I would consider a recurring 30 days of premium time.
Once I have premium time, I'm motivated to log in and not waste it.

But right now? All premium time gets you is in game currency, only 50 percent more, for the same cost as a full wow subscription...
I get that paint is cosmetic, but mechbays and mechs, even heros, are not. They are core gameplay elements, and $15 a month ought to provide some access to all gameplay affecting content. But right now, its not even close. The clan pack alone is over a year of WoW time.

Wow, and I'm irritated that I spent $50 for nothing... You've got $185 invested into it.

I wonder just what the hell PGI thinks they've got here with this game? It's not like this game is some kind of rare gem. It's crossed my mind to drop $240 for the Masakari Clan collection, but why? What for? That's four times the amount I've spend on any other game I've ever purchased up front. And what is that going to be essentially? An expansion? Aside from purchasing expansion packs for some other games (not even for as much as the cheapest Clan Pack collection) WoW is the only one I know I've spent a pretty penny on through the game, expansion and continued subscription.

It's frustrating to see the way this game is being handled from the financial standpoint because it isn't bad, and Mechwarrior has a large fan base based on what I've seen with the previous games. I wonder if the grind and prices are going to wind up ruining it... But then I think of the amount of people still playing it after a couple years and maybe it won't?

Edited by xTrident, 03 February 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[xhrit]

Zerberoff, on 03 February 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

Not exactly...
You can buy Zen with Dilithium from Players who buyed the Zen before with real money.

Dilithium is needed for serveral things in STO and the only way to get it is either a massive grind or Buying it from Players for Zen.

So it would be like if MWO allowed players to sell their MC to other players for cbills?

PGI should totally allow that. Also, they should put an auction house and allow players to sell mechs and weapons to each other.

[Zerberoff]

xhrit, on 03 February 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

So it would be like if MWO allowed players to sell their MC to other players for cbills?

PGI should totally allow that. Also, they should put an auction house and allow players to sell mechs and weapons to each other.

In order to give you the Option to buy MC´s from other Players you need to have some willing to sell there MC´s.
What reason do you have to BUY Cbills for MC´s?
We dont have any Repair costs and Weapons aint that expensive that you would throw out MC´s for them.

There is a slightly Chance, that you might find some Players willing to give there MC´s to get the Creds for new Mechs, but only when you make them Cbills only. I dont think that there are many out there who prefer to buy there Mechs that way unless you either increase the Price for them drasticaly or you lower the outcome from Matches by maybe drop in Rearm / Repair costs again.
We all can imagine what will happen when PGI puts in such a Mechanism (again).
Im not against it realy, i just want to point out ..whatever PGI might do in the Future, there will always be a drawback.

[Chemie]

$240 for an expansion pack.

I remember when it was $30 for that expansion pack in the good old "buy a game and get the whole game" days

[Sandpit]

Chemie, on 04 February 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

$240 for an expansion pack.

I remember when it was $30 for that expansion pack in the good old "buy a game and get the whole game" days

uhm there's a several other options for purchasing that expansion pack for well under $240

I remember when there were no expansion packs. You bought a game and that was it. There was nothing new coming after that until you bought a new game. Then they were free add-ons. Then they were monetized. Good, bad, or indifferent the market has changed. It is what it is now and it's very rare you get new content for free.
Here you get ALL of the new content for free. The only exception are new hero mechs.
You don't have to pay $240 for any of those mechs. You can get them all for free. 100% for free. Not a dime. You CAN pay for the content if you want it earlier than those that don't but you'll still get it free if you want.

[Chemie]

you can get them all for free over an 8 month period (assuming one per month). Assuming a few are OP because PGI gets the balance wrong (85 kph assaults/heavies seem like a winner), you are running your under powered IS mechs against a new meta of OP that was paid for.

[Sandpit]

Chemie, on 07 February 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

you can get them all for free over an 8 month period (assuming one per month). Assuming a few are OP because PGI gets the balance wrong (85 kph assaults/heavies seem like a winner), you are running your under powered IS mechs against a new meta of OP that was paid for.

Sure thing.

[6xero9]

Quote

you can get them all for free over an 8 month period (assuming one per month). Assuming a few are OP because PGI gets the balance wrong (85 kph assaults/heavies seem like a winner), you are running your under powered IS mechs against a new meta of OP that was paid for.

Clan Mechs OP!? what do you think this is? a game that follows the lore perfectly? Clan Mechs are just going to be known as "Those mechs with a hefty price tag"

[Ohgodtherats]

I certainly have spent a great deal more on this game than I have other games, however you don't really need to. Sure, you only get 4 bays, but you CAN just turn around and make a new account and that has the benefit of that 25 match earning multiplier which amounts to about 8 million c-bills that you make even if you loose every match. I guess it is something of a pain to have multiple accounts but if bays is your stumbling point then there's a work around. Would I like to see cheaper prices? Yup. Will we see cheaper prices? Probably not, however there will likely be more flash-sales-ala-steam since they don't have to take the servers down to put something on sale now that UI 2.0 has come out. So maybe cheaper prices sometime.

As far a grind goes... I'm not sure if this game has a grind at all really. Or possibly the entire game is one big grind without any actual game-play. What I mean is; I'm leveling up my pilot skill trees in catapults currently but I wouldn't call it grinding, per say. I'm just playing with my catapults. Also, the skill tree stuff is nice but there is nothing in them make the leveled up cats that much crazier than the unleveled ones. Now, the equipment side of things is different; until you get to that critical mass of mechs and equipment where if you need something, say an ER Large or an XL, you can just yank it out of something else, you are at a real disadvantage against a well equipped opponent. So I guess there is that initial grind. But once you pass that stage I wouldn't say it's a grind.

TL;DR: There are ways to spend no money ever and still get everything that actually matters. With the advent of UI 2.0, there is the possibility of a flash sale on something you want so maybe prices can be cheaper too if you're paying attention.