70 replies to this topic

[Roland]

The thing I liked about 8v8 was that you could actually carry a whole 8 man team if you played really well. It's much, much harder to do that in a 12v12 game.

[D Sync]

When weight limitations are implemented you will no longer see nothing but assaults and heavies in 12v12.

[Darth Futuza]

4v4 would be more interesting then 8v8, keep 12v12 and implement 4v4.

[hellcatq]

I agree with the op completely in that I feel unimportant to the match.
I have never like the 12 man.
Map size really doesn't matter since basically the first part of every match is generally everyone gathering into a big blob. Even in conquest this mostly happens as 9 out of 10 games are won by players all killed, not gas harvested.

The mob mentality sucks and isn't that fun for me. It is pretty easy for 4-5 mechs whose only skill is all targeting the same mech to kill me.
Back when 8v8 it was more likely to be a one on one or one v 2-3. In 12 mans there is a reason spiders are aways last man standing. Hard to hit is way better than armor when attacked by the mob and more times than not in 12 man it is the mob your fighting not 1-2 mechs.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Roland, on 28 January 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

The thing I liked about 8v8 was that you could actually carry a whole 8 man team if you played really well. It's much, much harder to do that in a 12v12 game.

Exactly. I think the 12v12s are just past the point where one great player can carry reliably. An extremely good player having a very good match can carry to a point in 12s, but not much.

hellcatq, on 28 January 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

I agree with the op completely in that I feel unimportant to the match.

You sir, feel my pain.

[Eddrick]

I can agree with the OPs sentimate.

A situation that makes you feel even less important is being part of a 40 man Raid in an MMORPG. Another thing to note about groups that large is that they are very difficult for a Leader to control. The same likely holds true to a lesser extent when MWO went from 8 to 12 man groups. The more people there are, the harder to becomes for a Leader to have them organized and keep them under control.

[Roughneck45]

Mcchuggernaut, on 28 January 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Exactly. I think the 12v12s are just past the point where one great player can carry reliably. An extremely good player having a very good match can carry to a point in 12s, but not much.

Honestly, I think PGI is happy about that detail. Reinforces the notion of a "team game" I suppose.

[Khobai]

Quote

Honestly, I think PGI is happy about that detail. Reinforces the notion of a "team game" I suppose.

Which would be great if we actually had an easy way to communicate with our teammates. And yes before some {Dezgra} says it, we can type, but its not always possible to type things out in the middle of a fight. We dont have in-game voice, hotkey macros, priority target designation, the ability to see our teammates loadouts, or any way for commanders to give anything other than the most rudimentary of orders (i.e. flank left, flank right, which apparently both mean frontal assault to pugs anyway).

Right now 12v12 just means more ******* I cant control and less ability to carry the team by myself. I would LOVE to have the option to go back to 8v8s.

Edited by Khobai, 28 January 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[Alcom Isst]

Roughneck45, on 28 January 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Honestly, I think PGI is happy about that detail. Reinforces the notion of a "team game" I suppose.

There's a point where it stops being a team and starts being a mob, a titanium conglomerate.

I don't like the titanium conglomerate.

Edited by Alcom Isst, 28 January 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Mcchuggernaut, on 28 January 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

I make this statement because I was here for 8v8, and enjoyed it more, so I feel I have room to talk.

Hmm... you do. Except for the fact it was known, long ago, that 12v12 would be the standard. 4 Lances vs 4 Lances...

Sorry bro. This has always been the idea PGI had. Want 8V8, guess you can find some legacy servers on the old games or something.

[Roland]

Jade Kitsune, on 28 January 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Hmm... you do. Except for the fact it was known, long ago, that 12v12 would be the standard. 4 Lances vs 4 Lances...

4 lances vs. 4 lances would be 16 v 16, dude.

[wanderer]

Company vs. company, more like.

In any case, it helped reinforce the "nobody is a hero, only credit to team" line.

One guy should NOT carry a team on his shoulders, even if it happens now and then.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Just wait for lobbies.

Then I'll be able to start running that lance v.lance tournament I've been dreaming about (4v4 light, med, heavy, assault on the small maps)

[ManDaisy]

where is the 32 vs 32?

[Roland]

wanderer, on 28 January 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

Company vs. company, more like.

In any case, it helped reinforce the "nobody is a hero, only credit to team" line.

One guy should NOT carry a team on his shoulders, even if it happens now and then.

The most epic, memorable games I've played in Mechwarrior over the years tended to involve heroics.

Being able to be a hero is one of the things that makes this game cool. Or did at least.

[SilentWolff]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 28 January 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

Just wait for lobbies.

Then I'll be able to start running that lance v.lance tournament I've been dreaming about (4v4 light, med, heavy, assault on the small maps)

Yep April the launch module is supposed to be released (cross fingers) and it will give us the ability to do 1v1 thru 12v12 and this will all be a moot point. It should be the turning point in the game and will allow for tournaments and leagues.

[Rovertoo]

I'd love to see a 4v4v4v4, and a free for all!

[Corvus Antaka]

THE BLOB!

I agree though. gameplay tuning will hopefully help resolve this.

It'd be great to be allowed to do 4v4, 8v8 and 12v12 for community warfare.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

DaZur, on 28 January 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

While I appreciate your premise... It's inaccurate.

While it is true your contribution was felt "faster" in the 8v8 scenario... The reason is because you force strength being only 8 players, the combat force attrition point (the point where it's almost impossible to avoid a stomp) occurs sooner.. i.e. roughly 2 to 3 players down.

With 12v12 there is slightly more wiggle room in the tipping point occurs around 4 to 5... Thus, your impact good or bad is the same... it just doesn't manifest physically as quickly.

ya i have to disagree in 12v12 it does feel like just two mobs going at it. i do feel like my team has already lost when we lose even 1-2 players because the enemy team just comes stomping over your.

in 8v8 losing 2 players meant you needed to get organized fast and pull it back. but it wasn't impossible to pull it back.

in 12v12 once 2 of your assaults hit the ground the enemy knows you can no longer oppose them.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Jade Kitsune, on 28 January 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Hmm... you do. Except for the fact it was known, long ago, that 12v12 would be the standard. 4 Lances vs 4 Lances...

Sorry bro. This has always been the idea PGI had. Want 8V8, guess you can find some legacy servers on the old games or something.

Oh, I was aware of this and I was dreading the day it got implemented because I knew what would happen when it was. Well, not EXACTLY, but at the time I guessed that I would matter less in a drop and endgames would get even more one-sided and ridiculous with the "ZOMG 12 MECHS JUST FOCUS FIRED MY FACE ACTUATOR!" on average.

Also, PGI isn't exactly known around these forums for always doing exactly what they say they are going to do, either, sooo....I can has smaller drop modes maybe????