15 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Hitscan. pfff

After countless hours of spectating, and just experimenting, I have figured out how to hit spiders and other fast light mechs.

I started noticing in spectator mode that players were aiming and leading behind any mech thats moving fast, and barely dealing any damage even while being very steady handed and well aimed, while players that I noticed shooting ahead were dealing a ton more damage.

There is a general De-sync between the models and their hitboxes going on.

This De-sync is applied to all mechs at all speeds because netcode interpolation is not going to change from mech to mech, but its only affecting faster mechs more noticably.

What I started to do, is lead all weapons far ahead of where the enemy mech actually is, and leading in the direction he's going, instead of trying so hard to lock onto the visible model dead on with my crosshairs.

After I started doing that, I started chopping down spiders and jenners pretty easily, but only with the faster variants of them do you really need to start leading them in this way.

Try it yourselves with lasers first so you can get a feel for it, but lead your shots way ahead of where your Beams are pointing, and try to adjust for what direction the enemy is traveling.

Even if it looks like you're missing, watch the damage stack up and see for yourself.

The faster a mech is moving, the farther ahead you have to lead.
It also seems like this is happening based on ping as well, so its somewhat confusing.

I also started noticing this when collisions between mechs started happening, where you could be a good distance apart, but your screen will get all wobbly and twitchy as you pass within eachother's hitboxes.

Games on Valve's source engine do a very similar thing with any hitbox vs hitbox collision, except hitscan seems to be a little better in their engine, unless its a ballistic style weapon that has to travel. Point to point weapons still have the advantage.

It is still somewhat confusing as to what is actually going on, but I'm pretty sure that some tweaking to the netcode would bring things a little closer, unless its hardcoded in the engine itself and nothing can really be done about it for these super fast lights.

Edited by Mister D, 03 February 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Mister D, on 03 February 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

I started noticing in spectator mode that players were aiming and leading behind any mech thats moving fast, and barely dealing any damage even while being very steady handed and well aimed, while players that I noticed shooting ahead were dealing a ton more damage.

When you spectate someone, the actual aiming and such doesn't line up. So, while it looks like they're aim is off, it really isn't. Its a bug with the Spectator mode. Spiders just don't always take damage (still). Though, it could be possible that HSR is still off.

[Almond Brown]

To test any required Leading, just point your reticule at a point ahead, and on plane of any fast mover. Just leave it there and watch your indicator as they approach, then pass through the reticule box and beyond. At some point during this transitional period your Reticule will have turned RED, if only for a millisecond.

That is when you should have pulled the trigger. Given more observations with various Mechs of differing speeds will quickly give you a pretty solid idea of where to point and pull without waiting for the indicator to go RED.

[Roland]

Almond Brown, on 03 February 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

To test any required Leading, just point your reticule at a point ahead, and on plane of any fast mover. Just leave it there and watch your indicator as they approach, then pass through the reticule box and beyond. At some point during this transitional period your Reticule will have turned RED, if only for a millisecond.

That is when you should have pulled the trigger. Given more observations with various Mechs of differing speeds will quickly give you a pretty solid idea of where to point and pull without waiting for the indicator to go RED.

Your reticle is only going to turn red if you are actually shooting something and hit them.

That is, you have to have fired a laser or something. A tag laser is good for this since you can just turn it on and leave it on.

[wanderer]

Did they ever fix it to let you leave TAG on, or do you have to macro it?

Cause honestly, I'd use em for targeting if they did. TAG ping? Pew pew.

[stjobe]

Roland, on 03 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

A tag laser is good for this since you can just turn it on and leave it on.

I wish this was true.

But AFAIK there's no in-game toggle for TAG as of yet (you have to use external macro programs to get the toggle effect).

[Reitrix]

Trauglodyte, on 03 February 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

When you spectate someone, the actual aiming and such doesn't line up. So, while it looks like they're aim is off, it really isn't. Its a bug with the Spectator mode. Spiders just don't always take damage (still). Though, it could be possible that HSR is still off.

It's not a bug. All thats happening is you're watching the game from their cockpit, It's still your connection showing you 'Mech positions. Always looks to me like people miss every single shot and shoot a dozen meters ahead of what i see, but their aiming dead on the enemy 'Mech model, I simply see the target where my connection says it should be.

[stjobe]

Reitrix, on 03 February 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's not a bug. All thats happening is you're watching the game from their cockpit, It's still your connection showing you 'Mech positions. Always looks to me like people miss every single shot and shoot a dozen meters ahead of what i see, but their aiming dead on the enemy 'Mech model, I simply see the target where my connection says it should be.

AFAIK you're seeing what the server sees when you spectate, NOT what the player you're spectating sees.

[Reitrix]

stjobe, on 03 February 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

AFAIK you're seeing what the server sees when you spectate, NOT what the player you're spectating sees.

I've spectated friends sitting next to me, i can assure you, his reticle is dead on target, but on mine its aiming ahead. Even on Skype with other friends, all confirm it.

[stjobe]

Reitrix, on 03 February 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

I've spectated friends sitting next to me, i can assure you, his reticle is dead on target, but on mine its aiming ahead. Even on Skype with other friends, all confirm it.

Yes, because what he sees is not what the server (or you, spectating) sees. That's Host State Rewind in action.

Only it's not working very well, so he's over- or under-compensating.

Edited by stjobe, 03 February 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

OP: Mechs stand still. Mechs take no damage.

??????????????

This happens to me all the time.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

We call this "desync" you are all talking about "lag"

The higher the latency, the greater the "lag"




And yes, through spectator mode, you witness what the server perceives. Lead your shots even with hitscan weapons on fast moving targets. The larger your ping and to a degree the larger theirs, the more you have the lead your shot.



Edit: Btw, when a mech is standing still and you shoot them, yet nothing happens, that is known as a packet loss. This is caused by the quality of service the Host Server is on.

Again, a shittier connection (either yours or your opponent) stacked with mediocre server connection speed, means many loss of packets -> failed hit registration on weapons.

Edited by mwhighlander, 03 February 2014 - 10:24 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

Again, a shittier connection (either yours or your opponent) stacked with mediocre server connection speed, means many loss of packets -> failed hit registration on weapons.

I read this and all I saw was "means many loss of pancakes". Then I got really sad.

[Mister Blastman]

mwhighlander, on 03 February 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Again, a shittier connection (either yours or your opponent) stacked with mediocre server connection speed, means many loss of packets -> failed hit registration on weapons.

I can only assume the packetloss is on PGI's end. I played at the platinum league level in Team Fortress 2 (the top) for five years and never had any packet loss issues except on rare occasion. The stuff I see in MWO is nightly.

PGI does own the server farm... or IGP does... hell, they are all the same group of people when you look at it.

[OneEyed Jack]

Additionally, the OP's theory doesn't even touch on mechs that are standing still or moving slow enough that speed, lag, de-sync and HSR have no bearing. When multiple hits as PB range to the broad chest of a slow-moving or stationary assault mech can fail to register, none of those apply.

[Almond Brown]

Roland, on 03 February 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Your reticle is only going to turn red if you are actually shooting something and hit them.

That is, you have to have fired a laser or something. A tag laser is good for this since you can just turn it on and leave it on.

Hmmm, then fire a Laser and sweep it towards your target until RED.