98 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Roland, on 31 January 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Is this still true?
It used to be, but I thought the extended the AC5's range to match that of the UAC now.

The AC5's range was buffed a long while ago in response to how the AC5 was inferior to the UAC5. What the AC5 really needed at the time was similar a major cooldown reduction... but you know PGI.

Right now, the AC5 is OK because they finally normalized the cooldowns of the AC5+UAC5 (making macro usage pointless), so... go figure.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 January 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Mister D, on 31 January 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Everytime I carry a UAC-5 into battle, it fails me when I need it most.

This.

For some reason the UAC performs well when you don't need it to...but the moment you have a mech in your face it jams.
To me, that's a worthless weapon.

AC/5 is a better option, IMO.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I like what a couple of you guys have said about making the jamming mechanic a mini-game type deal.

So how about this?

1. Give UAC-5 its own internal heat regulation per weapon (as is)

Holding down the firebutton fires UAC-5 at a fixed rate of 1.45 (0.05) faster than standard AC-5

Tapping shots allows for Burst fire.

UAC-5 allows you to fire a minimum of 2 shots before internal heat starts to roll the dice on jamming mechanic.

Start at 0% Chance To Jam on first 2 shots, each shot after the first 2 adds 8% C2J

UAC-5 has 30% maximum chance to jam.

On a jam, C2J is reset to 0%, and 4 second cooldown before you can fire again.

A jam can be cleared by pressing the firebutton again with a 40-45% chance to clear instantly, but at the cost of 1 Shell per try. (sound fair, or does it need to be 50%?)

Waiting out the 4 second cooldown on a jam, you do not lose a shell.

May need a .25 second delay when the jam starts, so you don't accidentially force a roll of the dice on clearing the jam.


I dunno though guys, afterall this is going to be one heck of a job for the coder who would have to do all that

Edited by Mister D, 31 January 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[Cimarb]

Prezimonto, on 31 January 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

I really like the idea that, in addition, you hit a button to jam clear... and it costs you a round. If your weapon is "hot" odds are you spend a bunch of ammo trying to force a clearance. Makes players carry more ammo for UACs.

Add that all ammo needs to have the explosion chance increased by a LOT, and that's a win.

It would be a good trade off for a specific hard limit on jamming. Play carefully, or get a jam, once it's jammed, keep your head, or lose your ammo slowly.

Maybe even combine the two. Since the weapon is jamming because it is heated up, have a chance of ammo explosion (at the gun) if you continue to abuse the weapon. For instance, have a low initial chance at jam that ramps up the longer you hold it. When it gets jammed, every time you clear a round to try to un jam it there is a small chance that the round will explode (say 10% of the chance you jammed at, so if you got up to a 50% jam chance before it jammed, you have a 5% chance of explosion every time you clear a round by pressing the button), doing damage to the gun and/or component it is housed in. This would make jams in the bigger UACs extremely dangerous, as 20 points of damage internally would hurt!

[Prezimonto]

Cimarb, on 31 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Maybe even combine the two. Since the weapon is jamming because it is heated up, have a chance of ammo explosion (at the gun) if you continue to abuse the weapon. For instance, have a low initial chance at jam that ramps up the longer you hold it. When it gets jammed, every time you clear a round to try to un jam it there is a small chance that the round will explode (say 10% of the chance you jammed at, so if you got up to a 50% jam chance before it jammed, you have a 5% chance of explosion every time you clear a round by pressing the button), doing damage to the gun and/or component it is housed in. This would make jams in the bigger UACs extremely dangerous, as 20 points of damage internally would hurt!

Again, I only think that's fair if the random nature of jamming is taken out of the UAC, or if it will auto clear after a fixed period... so unjamming is risk-reward, but you could just wait.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I would love to add a poll to this, but unfortunately its not available in this section of the forums.

[wanderer]

So basically, you want to take a weapon that allows you to try to overload it (which is what double-fire mode is for an Ultra) and make the overload pretty much nuthin' much.

Ultras already have superior range by type for a one-ton increase AND you can, but don't HAVE to risk locking one up by firing them at 200% their normal tolerances.

People have a serious problem with that? It's not like a jam doesn't clear, and it's the only gun in the game you can even TRY to "overclock".

[Cimarb]

Prezimonto, on 31 January 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Again, I only think that's fair if the random nature of jamming is taken out of the UAC, or if it will auto clear after a fixed period... so unjamming is risk-reward, but you could just wait.

We are just talking about different ways to handle it, and there is a 0.000000001% chance of PGI even trying any of this stuff, but it passes the time.

The base chance of jamming should be very low to begin with - maybe 1-5% - and should increase exponentially from there until it jams. The jam chance could decrease over 5-10 seconds of not firing, and should be exponential as well (the longer you wait, the quicker the chance drops).

wanderer, on 31 January 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

So basically, you want to take a weapon that allows you to try to overload it (which is what double-fire mode is for an Ultra) and make the overload pretty much nuthin' much.

Ultras already have superior range by type for a one-ton increase AND you can, but don't HAVE to risk locking one up by firing them at 200% their normal tolerances.

People have a serious problem with that? It's not like a jam doesn't clear, and it's the only gun in the game you can even TRY to "overclock".

I don't have a problem with UACs, in particular, but with autocannons in general. I'm just trying to give creative ideas to make UACs more "fun" and unique.

[ego1607]

I have no problems with UAC as it is. It is a weapon that can squeeze a short very high dps burst with some downsides. It is great if you want to peek out of cover squeeze maximum damage into an enemy in a short time and return to cover. If you expect longer brawls and need steady DPS, you take regular AC5.

[Cimarb]

ego1607, on 31 January 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

I have no problems with UAC as it is. It is a weapon that can squeeze a short very high dps burst with some downsides. It is great if you want to peek out of cover squeeze maximum damage into an enemy in a short time and return to cover. If you expect longer brawls and need steady DPS, you take regular AC5.

We are glad you like it, and we are aware of the differences between them. This is a discussion on how UAC can be changed to make it a little more interesting. If you have a suggestion, we would love to hear it, but if you don't, your opinion is noted.

[Cyborne Elemental]

updated first post, with a picture.

[Cimarb]

While I like that edited version better in theory, the jam time needs to be more significant. It is 5 seconds currently, with no chance of shortening it, so making it 4 seconds with an almost 50% chance to clear it instantly at the cost of 1-2 rounds is very bad. In addition, the jam chance is barely worse than the current chance (25%) even at its maximum.

[Joseph Mallan]

To my memory Ultra jams would render your gun out of commission for the game until MaxTech provided alternate rules. Which did make sense. But jamming and having to play DDR was a bad idea.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Yeah, sounds like TT did some pretty harsh things, but I bet their guns didn't jam on the very first shot either.

From the thoughts of most of the people who posted, its pretty clear that the UAC5 needs some refinements.
Single UAC5's need to be functional, and a little more trustworthy.

2 are great, but when you're spending another 9 tons and 6 critslots just to have a weapon that works a little better than half of the time, thats not so great.

Now that we got something worth taking to the devs, who can we even talk to and say "hey we might have an idea that could work better for the weapon" and here it is.

Edited by Mister D, 01 February 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[wanderer]

Mister D, on 01 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Yeah, sounds like TT did some pretty harsh things, but I bet their guns didn't jam on the very first shot either.

Actually, not only could it happen, it did. Nothing like going double-tap mode and rolling a 2 to hit. Gun disabled for entire game (which originally was the case in MWO and rapidly amended to the jam mode instead.)!

[Cyborne Elemental]

I'll make ya a deal guys, go play any mech you want, but only use a single UAC-5 for your primary.

Let me know how you do, show me how many games you win, or even break even for that matter, and I'll shutup.

Oh, and Pics or it didn't happen.

Edited by Mister D, 01 February 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Varent]

just throwing my input. I like the uac5 the way it is. please no changes.

thanks.

[Mcgral18]

Varent, on 01 February 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

just throwing my input. I like the uac5 the way it is. please no changes.

thanks.

UAC5 is decent, but the upcoming UAC10 and 20's will need some tweaking.

[Varent]

Mcgral18, on 01 February 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

UAC5 is decent, but the upcoming UAC10 and 20's will need some tweaking.

depending on how they impliment it... the uac20 could be ... really scary...

Im looking forward to the uac10. like REALLY loooking foreward to it.

[Varent]

Khobai, on 01 February 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

UAC/5 does about 10% more dps than the AC/5.

So if the UAC/20 does 10% more dps than the AC/20 that means itll do 5.5 dps.

If its firing 2 shots every 4 seconds, in order to do 5.5 dps, it would need to jam like 40% of the time lol.

I dont think looking at it from a dps point of view is a good way to approach it... instead look at it potential wise. Basically your going to be throwing down 40 damage from one weapon in a very short period of time.

I kinda think the best chance for it really is a high jam rate. High risk high reward would fit it I think personally.