13 replies to this topic

[Nikkoru]

I really like being an LRM support Mech. It just fits my style, and even thought the mechs i've used for it in the past weren't well built for it, I find I keep coming back and playing them just because I like playing support. (Particularly when it's late and I'm too tired for the fast-pace of my Jenner-F)

Anyway, so rather than fight it and try to play meta, I'm thinking of just going with what fits me, and design a proper LRM support mech.

This is what I came up with. It's got almost everything I put on my checklist. It's got enough tubes to alpha volley, it's compatible with ghost heat, it's got artemis, TAG, and Beagle. The only thing I'm not 100% happy with are the backup weapons. Basically I would have preferred to have an anti missile system, 3 medium lasers, and more heat sinks instead, but there just aren't enough slots to do that, and removing endo steel leaves me with not enough tonnage, so the pulse lasers are kind of a compromise.

I've got enough GXP to master it right away, I plan on giving it Advanced Target Decay and Advanced Sensor Range Modules.

Any advice would be appreciated from you vets.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c1dfa03e1da498a

Edited by Nikkoru, 02 February 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

I don't think the 3H it's the Best missile support (mostly due ST launchers are meant to fire Srm 6 ) but i'll go with something like this STALKER-3H

On a side note there is also some factors you may consider about how you perform on the Battlefield.

Do you stand in the Front line and spot for yourself?

If the answer is yes then Tag+Artemis should be helpful
If the answer is no i'll hide behind cover as long as possible then you can choose to sacrifice those.

Also you can consider Speed vs Space and weight save (300 vs 250-275) or even Xl plus no Endo vs STD+endo to balance weight saving and space for DHS

[Nikkoru]

I appreciate the input, but wouldn't 2 LRM-15's and 2 LRM-10's create too much ghost heat?

When I plug it into the heat simulator, it creates nearly 40% heat from just a single volley, wheras 2 LRM-20's and 2 LRM-5's create only 15% heat

[LowSubmarino]

Nikkoru, on 02 February 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

I really like being an LRM support Mech. It just fits my style, and even thought the mechs i've used for it in the past weren't well built for it, I find I keep coming back and playing them just because I like playing support. (Particularly when it's late and I'm too tired for the fast-pace of my Jenner-F)

Anyway, so rather than fight it and try to play meta, I'm thinking of just going with what fits me, and design a proper LRM support mech.

This is what I came up with. It's got almost everything I put on my checklist. It's got enough tubes to alpha volley, it's compatible with ghost heat, it's got artemis, TAG, and Beagle. The only thing I'm not 100% happy with are the backup weapons. Basically I would have preferred to have an anti missile system, 3 medium lasers, and more heat sinks instead, but there just aren't enough slots to do that, and removing endo steel leaves me with not enough tonnage, so the pulse lasers are kind of a compromise.

I've got enough GXP to master it right away, I plan on giving it Advanced Target Decay and Advanced Sensor Range Modules.

Any advice would be appreciated from you vets.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c1dfa03e1da498a

All stalkers are actually very capable of missile heavy setups. But quite frankly I not build a mech around missiles.

Especially vs good teams you won't have many opportunities to dish out a lot of damage if a team is protected by terrain and ecm.

Go for a mixed build with many mediums and missiles or a few ppcs and missles instead.

[Escef]

Nikkoru, on 02 February 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

I appreciate the input, but wouldn't 2 LRM-15's and 2 LRM-10's create too much ghost heat?

When I plug it into the heat simulator, it creates nearly 40% heat from just a single volley, wheras 2 LRM-20's and 2 LRM-5's create only 15% heat

I run 2xLRM15 and 2xLRM10 on my BLR-1S with 13 double sinks. It's manageable. It also nets you better DPS as your overall rate of fire is better.

[Spheroid]

I would go 300XL, no endo, 3x mlas, no BAP, 2x LRM15 + 2 LRM10 + more heatsinks. You would have to lower your ammo count but I can't see a XL Stalker in LOS shooting all 1600 rounds before dying.

Edited by Spheroid, 02 February 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[Escef]

Spheroid, on 02 February 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I would go 300XL, no endo, 3x mlas, no BAP, 2x LRM15 + 2 LRM10 + more heatsinks. You would have to lower your ammo count but I can't see a XL Stalker in LOS shooting all 1600 rounds before dying.

On my BLR-1S I not only forgo Artemis, I skimp on TAG and Beagle as well. As an LRM boat, I see my job as lobbing indirect fire, my job is not getting locks, and if I have line of sight on the opponent (necessary for Artemis or if I would be using my own TAG) I have done something wrong. I don't expect big damage, if my opponents are smart they will seek cover. In essence, I'm area denial, people hear the missile warning and seek cover. If they don't seek cover they won't last long, 50 LRMs shred armor (aren't too friendly to internal structure, either).

You don't need to get fancy with an LRM boat. The only thing I recommend that I've seen too many people skimp on is point defense. If you don't have 3 or 4 medium lasers to scare away frisky lights (or finish damaged big boys, especially late game) than you have done something wrong.

[FireSlade]

Problem with running 2 LRM15s and 2 LRM 10 besides the Ghost Heat is that the 10s would come out in 2 salvos instead of 1. That alone reduces DPS and allows AMS to chew through more missiles further reducing your potential. Add in the Ghost Heat and then you cannot fire as many missiles as you could from 2 LRM20s and 2 LRM5s, (LRM 5s do not count meaning that you could fire 20 LRM 5s without penalty) due to heat build up.

Personally I think that the OP's build is sound with my only complaint being the MPLs with only 2 extra DHS but like my Heavy Metal being screwed with no slots means he has to use them or waste tonnage. The BAP is a good idea to bring (worth more than AMS) because longer range locks and if an enemy ECM sneaks up behind him he is not completely helpless and can lock on giving friendlies an idea that he needs help. I would ignore the Advanced Sensor Range since the BAP does that and anything over 1000 meters is useless to you. Better to use Seismic Sensor so that you can see if there are nearby mechs sneaking up on you. So Nikkoru good job with the long range support Stalker. Good luck and good hunting.

[Nikkoru]

siesmic sensor eh? I'll look into that.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

What exactly you should be doing here depends on the precise results you want. I'd say that if you're reaching for a Stalker to missile barrage constantly with, the STK-5S is much better for it- you have more energy hardpoints for backup weapons and some are on the side torsos for slightly higher reliability. That machine lends itself well to a 10-5-10-5 loadout on LRM racks, which lets you keep up a pretty constant barrage of coring damage while still saving enough weight to have a seriously huge ammo bin and a good engine size. I worry more about 5S than any other stalker performing LRM bombardment from the enemy team because five-six standard medium lasers is a really damaging backup array for a missile hucker.

Alternately, the 5M has five missile hardpoints, so you can fit a set of five racks (probably all LRM-5s) on there to make a heftier version of the 6-5 Catapult. That one also has the advantage of a center torso energy point- depending on your preference, you can set your TAG in there to protect it, or put a large laser there for added close range backup firepower.

I don't really consider the 5H a very good Stalker, because it's leaning way too hard on its arms for its weaponry- and it has less hardpoints than other Stalkers in exchange for the added tubes on the arms, which just isn't really a trade up at all (and for myself at least, is a downgrade). Something you want to keep in mind is that having a larger number of tubes is only really good for your reload rate if you decide to use a larger rack- a smaller number of tubes means smaller missile clusters, which means that while you take longer to fire (and the missiles are slightly more vulnerable to AMS shootdown) you lose less of the missiles to the ground and surrounding area when shooting at a target that isn't an assault-size 'mech. It also means more focused 'core' damage, which is why I tend heavily towards 5-10-5-10 missile setups or just all-5's. Not only is the weight efficiency highest on the 5 rack, but the benefit of the concentrated damage and higher fire rate generally outweighs the benefit of more missiles at once (and it also makes Artemis IV less vital, so you can skip it if you need the tonnage badly without losing too much in the trade).

I'm glad to see that you're not leaving your energy hardpoints empty, as I've found that 'missile boating' mostly just makes the pilot super-vulnerable to anyone willing to hug them- having good backup weaponry is vital to being serious fire support, as it's far too easy to strip a pure missile boat of its defender if it falls behind the group at all (and if anyone even bothers protecting it).

-QKD-CR0

[FireSlade]

@Nikkoru Just found the Stalker design that I was planning on making in the future. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e8359b1f5cc2a56 Might be something to try if you want some more ammo since it gets 43 shots with 10 missiles left over.

[Barkem Squirrel]

You are bringing up a problem I had in the Battle master. How to fit stuff. I now use 2 LRM 15's, 2 LRM 5's all with Artemis, TAG, 3 ML's, BAP, AMS and a 300 XL engine and I can not remember how many DHS. For the longest time I was running with a 260 standard, no artemis and LRM 10 instead of LRM 5's. I was having some heat issues. I never used Endo on the BLR-1S.

Speed v defensive systems and maybe more armor, more LRMs and better heat management.

The but, is speed allows you to move or torso twist to kill or discourage the pesky lights to move on.



There are two options.
1. Keep the endo-steel and drop to either a 260 or 265 Standard engine to have ML's and the anti-missile system. This you would have 11 DHS and with the 260 you could add 1/2 a ton of ammo or centralize your ammo from the arms to CASE in one of the center torso's. The ability of having a side torso blown off with a Standard allows you to fight for a few more seconds or the rest of the match. That is a hard call the weight reductions for a larger XL or a standard engine.

2. Remove the endo-steel and drop to a 300, 295 or 280 XL engine into it.
a. 300 XL - have 11 DHS, BAP, 3 ML's, AMS and 1/2 ton for more armor or case.
b. 295 XL - have 11 -12 DHS, BAP, 3 ML's, AMS, and if 11 DHS is chosen one more ton of LRM or AMS ammo.
c. 280 XL - have 11 -13 DHS, BAP, 3 ML's, AMS, now you could add more ammo instead of DHS again.

As far as ammo usage I like to think being able to fire 36 times. Why, you can have a match where 1/3 of the missile locks with be broken and you will loose all chance of hitting mostly. For 50 missile tubes that you are using that is 1800 LRMs. If you fire these conditions will make a difference on how many l hit:
1. range,
2. TAG,
3. NARC,
4. Artemis,
5. how many enemy mechs have AMS, (It is always important to watch your missiles go down range and it can tell you where hidden mechs are, like the 2 x AMS Locust right behind you.)
6. do you have line of sight.

If you have line of site, Artemis, and TAG, you can kill an atlas in 3 or 4 volleys as he is charging you. I did that with a Catapult with only 35 LRMs TAG, no Artemis and 3 ML's a few days ago in a 9 v 12 match. Then I ran for my life from his three angry wing men. That is the big thing here How fast do you want to move vs having AMS and maybe more LRMs. All the builds above will have a better heat management than what you have. The Standard engines may allow you to live just a little longer, but that is up to you and how you play. I use XL's in the battlemaster, but I am up with the rest of the team trying to hide behind them some times or after the LRMs are gone leading charges and soaking up damage since there are two arms to work as shields.

So it is up to you, Speed v defensive systems, more armor, LRM rounds and better heat management.

Also do not use GXP for mastering a mech or even the basics. Only use it for pilot skills. After a while when all pilot skills are opened, use the GXP for the Basics, elites or mastery of a specific mech chassis.


Almost forgot, Good luck and Have Fun!

[Kingkilla]

why not 3 med lasers, 4 lrm 15's with art and 1440 ammo? fire in chain unless you need a big punch, the lob them all at once. or 5 lrm5's and 5 med lasers? just saying.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Kingkilla, on 03 February 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

why not 3 med lasers, 4 lrm 15's with art and 1440 ammo? fire in chain unless you need a big punch, the lob them all at once. or 5 lrm5's and 5 med lasers? just saying.

He has the 3H stalker where the arms have 20 tubes each and two 6 tube slots in the torsos. The 5M has the 5 Missile and 5 laser hard points. For the build with LRM 15's that would be 27, 12, 6 and again in 4.25 seconds, but total time between fires is about 5 seconds. That is about 180 missiles in 10 seconds with 9 periods of missiles hitting and 240 missiles with 12 periods of missiles hitting in 15 seconds.

This is one reason why ghost heat came about, but does make you think to brave the heat.


What he currently fires.
Now he would fire 50, 3.25 seconds later 10, 4.75 seconds 40, through the second volley, then at 6.5 seconds 10 and at 9.5 seconds later 40 for the third volley. The fourth volley starts at 9.75 with 10 and again at 13 seconds with 10 and 14.25 seconds with 40. So at 10 seconds, there will be six period so LRMs hitting with 160 missiles and 210 at 15 seconds with 8 periods of missiles hitting.

Remember normally targets can find cover in 10 seconds.

For some reason the hard points that fire more missiles than tubes has a time delay between firing, but the heat may be easy to handle this way with hotter mechs. Also the weapon cool down time starts with the last missile.

The only problem is it adds 4 tons to the mech, but could be a viable option but would be hotter, have to remove endosteel and use a 280 XL with 10 DHS or a 260 XL with 11 DHS or a 245 Standard with 10 DHS.

I just seem to get into spots with LRM boats where I am running at full speed and lobbing missiles with mediums or with heavies and assaults just finding the right spot to lob missiles for 10 or 15 seconds or while on the run keeping up with the team, especially in PUGs.

One thing is I do not know how many kills I got with an LRM 60 Jagger that fires all 60 in one volley. After running out of LRM ammo I go up to the front to soak damage and fire the one ML I have with TAG. By the time you enter a fight with ML's some times all it takes is one ML to the torso and boom Kill secured (or kill steal). Other times it is that LRM and PPC atlas that walked around the map and has not been scratched yet, and you have to pew pew and more pew pew to take him down while staying within 90 m and I have seen this, it took forever and he disconnected saying I had a hack to keep from getting damaged. Know thy enemies capabilities and use them to your benefit.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 03 February 2014 - 06:53 AM.