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The Damage Of Artillery/airstrikes Have To Stay, But Here Are Alternative Ideas


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#1 Jman5

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:34 AM

There has been a lot of discussion about the power of Artillery and Airstrikes lately. Some people want to completely nerf it to the ground, while others say learn to play.

I think there are some tweaks we can make to the consumable that will still keep it an important feature, but also make it a little more forgiving to be on the receiving end.

1. Increase the Global Cooldown. Right now there is a 10 second cooldown, but it starts the moment you lay smoke. If you only notice it after the first one hits, that means you only have 5 seconds to react before the next one is laid down. I think a 20 second cooldown would make it a little more reasonable and reduce the ability to hit a single group multiple times before they can spread.

2. Do something about the Headshots. It appears that certain mech designs are more susceptible to getting headshotted by artillery than others. I'm not sure if there is some way to reduce the damage incurred on cockpits, but it would go a long way toward reducing the angst these consumables cause.

Either way, I think it's crucial that artillery and airstrike remain credible threats against stationary deathballs. It's particularly important because we now have Skirmish mode that would otherwise reward teams for holing up in a narrow defensible position. It's also important to remember that we're talking about a 40,000 cbill consumable.

Edit:
3. Make the Smoke visible in all 3 vision modes. I think artillery/airstrike are too strong to make the red smoke invisible in thermal/night vision mode. I believe this is an occasion where we need equal opportunity to spot it and move.

4. BillyM made an interesting suggestion:

View PostBillyM, on 30 January 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Shoot the smoke canister from the mech in a large arc, smoking as it goes. Make dropping smoke a skillful action vs "point-cursor, press button, magic smoke". This would also promote sneaky light backdoor smoke dropping vs poptart clicked 1m behind you.

--billyM


5. Another idea

View PostJman5, on 01 February 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

Got another idea, but it's a bit pie-in-the-sky.

Make the Artillery and and airplane bomber physical objects in the world. They would hang out by their base and would need to be defended. When players launch their artillery smoke you would see the artillery actually fire their guns or you would see the plane take off and head toward the airstrike signal.

You could put the new turret system around them to give them defensive capability and players would need to protect them from raiding lights. Destroying the artillery/airstrike placement would disable artillery for that team.

Edited by Jman5, 01 February 2014 - 11:12 AM.


#2 Deathsani

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:36 AM

Yes, artillery and air strikes break stalemates but should not be able to fatally wound mechs. The headshot shenanigans are the only questionable component of this consumable and should be dealt with.

#3 Damocles69

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:48 AM

Agreed. Head shots should not happen. Game needs to be about skill not RNG

#4 Mcgral18

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:50 AM

Another option could be to keep the 400 damage potential, but spread it out more with 20 shells doing 20 damage each, while also stopping headshotting (unless you've removed all armor.)

Some sort of change would be nice, at any rate.

#5 Khobai

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:51 AM

20 second global cooldown is entirely reasonable.

#6 Sandpit

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:51 AM

Why shouldn't an arced incoming shell dropping down from above be allowed to hit a head?

#7 Kazma

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

Seen a lot of mechs dying from this thing. This isn't a typical module anymore

Edited by Kazma, 30 January 2014 - 11:52 AM.


#8 Khobai

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:53 AM

Quote

Why shouldn't an arced incoming shell dropping down from above be allowed to hit a head?


Dont be an {Dezgra}.

RNG instant death has no place in this game.

#9 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:55 AM

View PostDamocles69, on 30 January 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Agreed. Head shots should not happen. Game needs to be about skill not RNG

I cannot agree with this. Artillery is about laying on the smack down. Lots of damage delivered in abundance that kills indiscriminately anyone in the area of effect.

#10 Damocles69

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:55 AM

View PostSandpit, on 30 January 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Why shouldn't an arced incoming shell dropping down from above be allowed to hit a head?


Because in a competive arena based shooter based on skill. Random is bad. It gives out luck based reward. Not good for a compwtive game. And until the CW vapor wear is realeased that's all this game is. An endless arena death match game

#11 Sandpit

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:55 AM

It happened in TT all the time

I'm not being anything. I asked a question. Do you think you'll get more support for this by saying "because I said so" or "because it hit my head and i died"
or
"Because (insert well thought out reasoning as to why it shouldn't hit the head)"
I don't understand how a physical object raining down from above would not be allowed to hit the head

#12 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:57 AM

View PostDamocles69, on 30 January 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Because in a competive arena based shooter based on skill. Random is bad. It gives out luck based reward. Not good for a compwtive game. And until the CW vapor wear is realeased that's all this game is. An endless arena death match game

See Pit and I are here for the war with the Clans I think, not fighting in the Solaris 7 Arenas. So different rules for different battlefields!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 January 2014 - 11:57 AM.


#13 Damocles69

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:58 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 30 January 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

I cannot agree with this. Artillery is about laying on the smack down. Lots of damage delivered in abundance that kills indiscriminately anyone in the area of effect.


This would be fine in a mech simulation game. This is not that. It is an arena death match game. Thus, it must be treated as one.

#14 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:00 PM

View PostDamocles69, on 30 January 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

This would be fine in a mech simulation game. This is not that. It is an arena death match game. Thus, it must be treated as one.

No this is only a combat engine, Solaris 7 is a pit fighting world and can have a no death by arty rule, I am here to defeat the Clans and stop them from reaching Earth. And in that game folks can die due to head shots and Arty.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 January 2014 - 12:00 PM.


#15 Jman5

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:03 PM

View PostSandpit, on 30 January 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Why shouldn't an arced incoming shell dropping down from above be allowed to hit a head?

Does it make sense from a logical point of view? Sure. However I think from a balance and fun perspective, it's something that shouldn't happen from one strike. I think what makes Mechwarrior stand out from a lot of shooters we have today is health and component system. You don't get 1-shotted out of no-where like you do in call of duty, or battlefield type games. This feels like it goes against that philosophy and in my opinion is more frustrating than fun. Especially since it's only certain mechs that have this problem.

#16 Damocles69

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:05 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 30 January 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

See Pit and I are here for the war with the Clans I think, not fighting in the Solaris 7 Arenas. So different rules for different battlefields!


That's great!! Make sure to hold your breath until that is released. Should be around 2017 or so. Until that time game needs to be based upon skill. Not luck.

I should also point out that airstrikes have been banned in the Mark Civil War. When one of the most popular tournaments with some of the best teams in the game has to ban something to avoid random and keep skill based combat that might be a sign of bad game design...just sayin

#17 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:06 PM

I see your point Jman, I just don't agree with it. if you want to play a fighting game you need to accept that you can be killed by surprise!

#18 Khobai

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:07 PM

Quote

It happened in TT all the time


In TT you controlled lances or companies of mechs. You didnt just control one mech. When you control one mech like in MWO you cant have attacks kill mechs in one hit, or the game just isnt fun.

Quote

I see your point Jman, I just don't agree with it. if you want to play a fighting game you need to accept that you can be killed by surprise!


Its not real life. Its a game. Randomly getting shot in the head isnt fun in real life. So why would it be fun in a game? Games are supposed to be fun, so we leave things that arnt fun out of them.

Edited by Khobai, 30 January 2014 - 12:12 PM.


#19 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:11 PM

View PostDamocles69, on 30 January 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

That's great!! Make sure to hold your breath until that is released. Should be around 2017 or so. Until that time game needs to be based upon skill. Not luck.

I should also point out that airstrikes have been banned in the Mark Civil War. When one of the most popular tournaments with some of the best teams in the game has to ban something to avoid random and keep skill based combat that might be a sign of bad game design...just sayin

I have no desire to wait for Solaris 7. My opponents are supposed to be coming later this year. Te skill is when I see smoke I beat feet out of the blast radius if I can, if not I take my lumps and die with dignity knowing I made a mistake and it cost me.

View PostKhobai, on 30 January 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:


In TT you controlled lances or companies of mechs. You didnt just control one mech. When you control one mech like in MWO you cant have attacks kill mechs in one hit, or the game just isnt fun.

Unless you were in a Official event. There you may only have had One Mech. I played one Stone Rhino in a Clan Battle for just over 6 hours! I destroyed 6x my mass at least. And on another occasion I was in a immobile Hover tank for 4 hours. I was the most entertaining play and kept everyone in high spirits!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 January 2014 - 12:12 PM.


#20 Dymlos2003

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:15 PM

View PostKhobai, on 30 January 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:


In TT you controlled lances or companies of mechs. You didnt just control one mech. When you control one mech like in MWO you cant have attacks kill mechs in one hit, or the game just isnt fun.



Its not real life. Its a game. Randomly getting shot in the head isnt fun in real life. So why would it be fun in a game? Games are supposed to be fun, so we leave things that arnt fun out of them.


It happens very rarely.

What's next complaining that it damages your mech too much?





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