43 replies to this topic

[Charons Little Helper]

I know that tonnage limits were waiting on UI 2.0 - as the underlying structure is supposed to make such changes far easier for PGI.

Does anyone know how long after UI 2.0 tonnage limits are expected? Frankly - that's the main thing from 2.0 I'm looking forward to.

[Zyllos]

I believe the word is April...

[LauLiao]

Soon™

[Belorion]

Tonnage limits won't do what you are hoping they will do. The only thing that will happen is that the meta will shift. People will still complain that only XX and YY mechs are being used, and people will still maximize their weight to fit in the tonnage limit.

[Charons Little Helper]

Belorion, on 29 January 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

Tonnage limits won't do what you are hoping they will do. The only thing that will happen is that the meta will shift. People will still complain that only XX and YY mechs are being used, and people will still maximize their weight to fit in the tonnage limit.

I realize that. Teams will max out their tonnage. But lighter mechs will still have a place - saving tonnage for assaults.

[Belorion]

They already have a place.

[Charons Little Helper]

Belorion, on 29 January 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

They already have a place.

Lights do. Other lighter mechs (mediums) really don't.

[Trevor Belmont]

Zyllos, on 28 January 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

I believe the word is April...

April 1st?

[Charons Little Helper]

Trevor Belmont, on 29 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

April 1st?

April fools? Lol

[TygerLily]

I CANNOT WAIT. I'm looking forward to this more than anything!!

[Belorion]

Charons Little Helper, on 29 January 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Lights do. Other lighter mechs (mediums) really don't.

They still won't... it will just be all spiders and victors. The comp teams are already practicing with that set up in anticipation of the change.

[Charons Little Helper]

Belorion, on 29 January 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

They still won't... it will just be all spiders and victors. The comp teams are already practicing with that set up in anticipation of the change.

I seriously doubt that it will work that way.

If one team went entirely lights & assaults vs another team of mixed composition - the mixed team's mediums would eat all the lights - then outnumber the min/max team.

A speedy medium built for it cuts through lights like butter.

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 29 January 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[Belorion]

Charons Little Helper, on 29 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

I seriously doubt that it will work that way.

If one team went entirely lights & assaults vs another team of mixed composition - the mixed team's mediums would eat all the lights - then outnumber the min/max team.

A speedy medium built for it cuts through lights like butter.

This is already the case.... just saying. That doesn't keep the meta happy from always bringing Highlanders, Atlases, and Ravens or Jenners, or whatever they are using now a days.

[Khobai]

Quote

Tonnage limits won't do what you are hoping they will do. The only thing that will happen is that the meta will shift. People will still complain that only XX and YY mechs are being used, and people will still maximize their weight to fit in the tonnage limit.

This. Heres whats going to happen. According to PGI, your 4-man group will be limited tentatively to 235 tons.

Since medium mechs still arnt getting a buff, and no ones going to want to play terrible mediums, whats the best way to utilize your 235 tons? Probably either a Victor, two Jagermechs, and a Jenner. Or Three Jagermechs and a Hunchback.

Under this tonnage limited system absolutely no one is going to want to touch the Atlas. Because even taking one Atlas is going to force everyone else in your 4-man into medium mechs. So basically everyones gonna be in Victors, Jagermechs, Shadowhawks, Jenners, etc... the mechs which are the most tonnage efficient. Mechs like that Atlas which arnt tonnage efficient just wont have a place in the game anymore.

[Belorion]

2 Victors, and 2 Spiders or 2 Jenners are under the cap...

[Rebas Kradd]

You think the QQ is bad now, wait until tonnage limits force people into mechs they don't want to play. It's gonna be five times as bad.

[Zerberus]

^^ Or as good, depending on the perspective.

I personally look forward to all the "Waaaah, I can`t drive my 25kph 100 ton D3thM4sheen all the time anymore" and "*howl* We can`t run 4 raven Wolfpacks anymore, boo!" threads from people who whine and pout instead of adapting and overcoming. Instead of accepting that what they are doing is effectively breaking the game for many others (and PGI apparently agrees, hence weight matching inc.) and at least trying to adapt, they go full blown psychopath and assume that the entire world needs to care about them, only them, and nothing but them.

I`d like to drive a monster truck or Sherman Tank all the time... but I don`t run into the DMV every day and throw a childish temper tantrum on the floor because of it.

Edited by Zerberus, 29 January 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[Navy Sixes]

CYBRN4CR, on 29 January 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Lance 1
235 tons = 100 + 65 + 35 + 35

Lance 2 = 100 + 65 + 35 + 35

Lance 3 = 100 + 65 + 35 + 35

But in this example alone, think about what you just eliminated. So long Victor (80 tons). So long Highlander (90 tons). So long Cataphract (70 tons). Of course you can shift tonnage around to make room for these and many other variations, but you can't get around the fact that the age of the 4 DC premade lance, the 2 Highlander, 1 'phract, and 1 Victor premade lance, or whatever other totally overweight premade lance combination is drawing to a close.

Think about what will change in terms of how the mechs in your example are fitted out. I predict the guy who wastes that 100 tons of potential armored brawl-queen turning it into an LRM boat or a long-range sniper is going to find themselves short of friends, fast. While many may think that 65 ton slot would of course be a Jagerbomb, with those two lights for spotters, why not an LRM Cat? So in your example of how nothing will change, I'm finding evidence of how we may see a lot of stale norms evolving.

People are going to be trying to figure out how to do it with less. Thing is, you really can't without making sacrifices. You can show me on paper how a Jagerbomb is just as lethal as a Highlander, but you can't tell me you can drive them the same way and expect the same results. If you thought those 55 tonners (Shawk, Griff, Kint, Wolv..) were beasts before, just wait...

At the end of the day, players with the skill to do it as well or even better in lighter mechs will be sought-after. So I think the biggest shift will be in the competitive mentality. Right now, the mentality is, "Sure, you may be an ace in your Centurion, but you're ultimately dragging your team down because you'd be even more effective in an optimized and competitive heavy/assault mech." With these tonnage limits, the mentality will become, "Nice game, Stalker-pilot. When you can match that damage in a Blackjack, we might have a place for you." Players who think that taking the most potential armor and firepower on the team 800m behind the action and doing 300 points of damage "poptarting" in a Highlander is "pulling their weight" are going to be left out in the cold.

Edited for because I had more stuff to say.

Edited by Tycho von Gagern, 30 January 2014 - 02:10 PM.

[Shredhead]

Word from Paul was about 730 tons for 12 men.
4 HGN = 360 tons
2 CTF + 2 SHD = 250 tons
4 SPD = 120 tons
730 tons total

or

4 VTR = 320 tons
4 CTF = 280 tons
2 JR7 + 2 SPD = 130 tons
730 tons total

Atlas, even the DDC, aren't really meta, and won't ever be again. With all the movement restrictions they are too slow and clumsy and easily outplayed by anything with jumpjets.

[Navy Sixes]

Shredhead, on 30 January 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Word from Paul was about 730 tons for 12 men.

Anyone have a link for that? I think I remember it too, I just can't remember where...