12 replies to this topic

[HammerSwarm]

I dunno if you can answer this forums goers or if a mod will have to step in. Bump if you think it's a good question.

I was reading the Omni Mech outline post by Paul last night and I came to this tidbit at the end.

• Inner Sphere 'Mechs cannot equip Clan technology.
  • When customizing an Inner Sphere 'Mech, only Inner Sphere technology is shown in the player’s inventory.

Wat?! So then what is the point of all of these clan mech?
Will salvage ever play a role other than for C-bills?
Does this only apply to structures and engines?
Does this apply to weapons too?

If I am a loyalist playing for house Marik as I'd like to be will I be allowed to bring clan mechs?
If I purchase these clan mechs and I choose to be a loyalist fighting for my house how useful will they be?
Will Merc units be mixed clan/IS mechs?

I'm so confused why if the weapons themselves won't be overpowered and the mechs won't be over powered then why was this design choice made?

How will this effect the economy if I am expected to maintain an entirely separate set of weapons and engines for mechs?

This seems antithetical to the systems of previous games which I have played. I understand the desire for balance but is this an admission that balance can not happen? I call for Paul or some one else at PGI to sit down for a Q & A specifically on this topic seeing that the VLOG idea seems to have flat lined and now instead of ask the devs we get Edicts from the devs.

Has anyone gleaned more information than I have?

[FupDup]

If you could mount Clan weapons on IS mechs, then the Clan Omnimechs would be pointless outside of roleplaying because of their extremely limited customization. It's a necessity to keep the Clan Omnis useful.


Not to mention, there are also some IS mechs that would be utterly broken with Clan tech. Can you imagine an SSRM36 Catapult, or 4 UAC/5 Jager, or 2 UAC/20 Jager? Or how about a Victor with 2 UAC/10 (<--they only take up 4 slots!!!) and 2 CERPPC?

Edited by FupDup, 04 February 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

So if/when I buy the Clan package, will I be able to use them dropping for Davion? I assumed that we wouldn't be able to tech swap which I am fine with....

[Josef Nader]

Yeah, clantech is balanced by being locked onto clan omjimechs. The lack of customization makes up for the power of clan weapons. If clan weapons were allowed on IS mechs, the balance of this game has just been broken over a knee.

[Hawk819]

FupDup, on 04 February 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

If you could mount Clan weapons on IS mechs, then the Clan Omnimechs would be pointless outside of roleplaying because of their extremely limited customization. It's a necessity to keep the Clan Omnis useful.


Not to mention, there are also some IS mechs that would be utterly broken with Clan tech. Can you imagine an SSRM36 Catapult, or 4 UAC/5 Jager, or 2 UAC/20 Jager? Or how about a Victor with 2 UAC/10 (<--they only take up 4 slots!!!) and 2 CERPPC?

Well, not so fast. There Clan made Inner Sphere `Mechs. If you recall, Gen. Aleksandr Kerensky took over 85% of the Star League Defense Force with him. Only the Eridani Light Horse, 12th Star Guards, and few other units stayed behind.

The list is as follows:

Atlas
Hunchback
Phoenix Hawk
Commando
Wyvern
Guillotine
Orion
Wolverine
Griffin
Shadow Hawk
Locust
Jenner
Highlander
Thunder Hawk
WarHammer
Marauder
Rifleman
BattleMaster

These are just a few of the ones we have now. Not to mention the fact that Russ and Co. May surprise us with the IIC variants, which are, by and large, still undecided on. Remember, Russ said there are plenty of `Mechs to choose from and I suspect, we're going to get a few of these as IIC variants. So let's wait and see what shakes loose.

[HammerSwarm]

FupDup, on 04 February 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

If you could mount Clan weapons on IS mechs, then the Clan Omnimechs would be pointless outside of roleplaying because of their extremely limited customization. It's a necessity to keep the Clan Omnis useful.


Not to mention, there are also some IS mechs that would be utterly broken with Clan tech. Can you imagine an SSRM36 Catapult, or 4 UAC/5 Jager, or 2 UAC/20 Jager? Or how about a Victor with 2 UAC/10 (<--they only take up 4 slots!!!) and 2 CERPPC?

If clan omni mechs are not useful because of customization omni points why add them?

cdlord, on 04 February 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

So if/when I buy the Clan package, will I be able to use them dropping for Davion? I assumed that we wouldn't be able to tech swap which I am fine with....

But if you plop 240 dollars down for this package, would you be okay with not being able to use any of it for loyalist play?

[HammerSwarm]

Josef Nader, on 04 February 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Yeah, clantech is balanced by being locked onto clan omjimechs. The lack of customization makes up for the power of clan weapons. If clan weapons were allowed on IS mechs, the balance of this game has just been broken over a knee.

So somehow having it on Clan mechs won't unbalance the game or will only unbalance it sometimes?
If I run into 12 clan mechs how does my not having clan weapons make us balanced?

I wanna know how much heat a UAC 20 has to kick out to make us balanced if that's the case.

[CDLord HHGD]

HammerSwarm, on 04 February 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

But if you plop 240 dollars down for this package, would you be okay with not being able to use any of it for loyalist play?

No, no I wouldn't... Which is why I haven't bought it yet.....

[Josef Nader]

HammerSwarm, on 04 February 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

So somehow having it on Clan mechs won't unbalance the game or will only unbalance it sometimes?
If I run into 12 clan mechs how does my not having clan weapons make us balanced?

I wanna know how much heat a UAC 20 has to kick out to make us balanced if that's the case.

No, it wouldn't, as clan mechs are less optimized than their IS counterparts by default. Your base stats are less than optimal, but your weapons are better.

[HammerSwarm]

Josef Nader, on 04 February 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

No, it wouldn't, as clan mechs are less optimized than their IS counterparts by default. Your base stats are less than optimal, but your weapons are better.

What stats? armor? who says they'll have less fixed armor than I have variable armor. Engine? They'll have 3 choices (assuming 3 cores) and I have effectively dozens? if the have, a slow, medium, and fast choice we're not talking about losing a whole lot of choice.

My endo vs. theirs? Mine eats up a 14 slots, theirs 7, so they have to live with where the 7 are. I have 7 more to deal with....

Sounds like not that bad of a trade off.

Now add to that that they get a UAC 20, or two, or three.

[Josef Nader]

HammerSwarm, on 04 February 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

What stats? armor? who says they'll have less fixed armor than I have variable armor. Engine? They'll have 3 choices (assuming 3 cores) and I have effectively dozens? if the have, a slow, medium, and fast choice we're not talking about losing a whole lot of choice.

My endo vs. theirs? Mine eats up a 14 slots, theirs 7, so they have to live with where the 7 are. I have 7 more to deal with....

Sounds like not that bad of a trade off.

Now add to that that they get a UAC 20, or two, or three.

All omnimechs are based off the same base config, so the engine rating doesn't change. All omnimechs of the same chassis move the same speed, and you can't change the engine. You also can't change whether or not they have endo/ferro, nor can you change where those slots go. It looks like you'll be able to tweak armor values, but you're still locked in to a certain number of tons and crits for pod space that you cannot change no matter what.

[Khobai]

so we arnt getting IIC versions of mechs? no hunchback IIC for example?

[HammerSwarm]

Khobai, on 04 February 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

so we arnt getting IIC versions of mechs? no hunchback IIC for example?

That would be nice to know.

Josef Nader, on 04 February 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

All omnimechs are based off the same base config, so the engine rating doesn't change. All omnimechs of the same chassis move the same speed, and you can't change the engine. You also can't change whether or not they have endo/ferro, nor can you change where those slots go. It looks like you'll be able to tweak armor values, but you're still locked in to a certain number of tons and crits for pod space that you cannot change no matter what.

So if you have 3 Mad-cat chassis as stated here you will have 3 different variants.

So if my Mad-cat Prime has a fast clan XL, Clan Endo, and Clan DHS, and that's what I pilot with some omni pods giving me access to a crap ton of killer weapons options. For that one match I won't I be OP? I don't care if 2 other variant cores are crap because if they are crap people will not use them. I am only concerned with the best one because that is the one people will use in competition.

So in the very best one, with all the advantages of critical space saving and additional hard points. It would then be unbalanced for me to use the same weapons which as stated here won't be true upgrades but on par with my own, just different?

How would it be OP for me to have their weapons in addition to my own especially when they have additional weapons unavailable to me? Because I can what, take armor out for another ton of ammo? move endo criticals around so I can maximize my DHSs?

Clan mechs are better, even if you give them some limitations they are better, and then when you put them 12 on 12 with IS mechs instead of say 8 on 12 you're asking for pain.