68 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

I'd like something to remove the COF of the MG. That might be worth a module slot.

[Almond Brown]

MustrumRidcully, on 04 February 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

stuff

But if they think 5-10 % can really wreck balance... MW:O's balance is off by more than 5-10 % already! They should fix that first.

Care to elaborate on that 5-10%?

Quote

And most (but maybe not all) games I know tend to give you pure buffs, not add drawbacks on top of that.

It is always funny to read statements like the above one. How easily everyone seems to forget that "EVERY" weapon in MWO got at least a 2.5X firing time "pure buff" to start.

But that is alright. No need to focus on the positive things from the past while going forward.
Let's focus on that 5-10% that only a few can rightly imagine in their heads at night. Maybe PGI should have done 10 seconds rounds after all.

[Jman5]

Khobai, on 04 February 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Theyre taking the wrong approach with weapon modules

Instead of changing the numerical stats of the weapons, the modules should add unique abilities to the weapons.

For example the PPC weapon module could disengage the field inhibitor on the PPC allowing you to shoot it at less than 90m (but risk doing damage to yourself in the process)

Seriously! Why are they taking such an unimaginative approach to this? Minor range change for minor heat Increase? Even level 5 is a moderate boost at best.

Come on PGI, invest a little developer time in these modules and let people do creative stuff with their weapons.

Here, I got some for you:

• Lasers: Increased beam duration for increased damage. (slightly higher CD)
  
• Increase Ammo by 25% with corresponding tonnage increase. Upside is that it still only takes up 1 slot.
  
• AMS can be toggled into a Machine Gun
  
• Ferro Fibrous reduces energy weapon damage taken by 10%, but increases Ballistic damage taken by 10%
  
• Endo Steel reduces ballistic weapon damage taken by 10%, but increases Energy weapon damage taken by 10% (using both will cancel out their benefit/downside)
  
• LRMs will now detonate 300 meters above the target and spray LB-10x pellets in a 60 meter radius around the target.

[Doctor Proctor]

Yeah, these changes just aren't really meaningful and worth the costs. With the MPL for example, it looks like if it follows a linear progression that we'll get an extra 20m range (200m optimal, 400m long) for an extra 1 heat, on a weapon that already produces 5 heat?!?!

[Prezimonto]

They need to put module slots directly on equipment that's on your mech.

So your "head" has a sensor suit that can(in some mechs) have an upgrade slot. All weapons could have an upgrade slot, some mechs might have a slot on the gyro, the Command Console would have 2 slots for consumable air strikes, the ECM and BAP might each open another module slot for sensor or targeting upgrades. The cockpit or life support may hold a single "generic" module slot. Each of these could then be another balance point for differentiating each variant of each mech.

I agree, as things stand these weapons modules are awful choices. But if any weapon could get a single upgrade, I might be tempted to start investing in them.

[TGWabba]

I agree that these modules are not worth it right now. They need to make a better reason to equip these, maybe by having a module slot for a weapon one specifically. Even at rank 5 these modules might not be worht the range for heat since the added heat decreases the DPS a mech can deal.

[Trauglodyte]

Yet another whine post by Madcat. Seriously dude, do everyone a favor and just stop playing the game or posting about it.

[FunkyFritter]

I'm not really sure what to think about these additions. As it stands the effects are too small to matter, but conceptually this approach rubs me the wrong way. More disadvantages for new players and more incentives to boat are not what this game needs, unless I'm missing something weapon upgrade modules are both.

[NextGame]

they need to go 1 of 2 ways to make them useful imo:

1) Either drastically reduce the cost of the modules, and retain the penalties, so that they are attractive to newer players who cant afford seismic, or constant art/air strikes, or whatever the flavour of the month is. Kind of like entry level modules.

Or

2) Remove the heat penalties and retain the high costs so that they are potentially genuine endgame contributors when tier 5 or whatever gets released.

If nothing is done with them and they stick to the current plan its no real big deal either, people just wont use them as there are far more powerful alternatives to pick from.

Edited by NextGame, 05 February 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[keith]

the lvl 1 teir range mods are junk. all the plus with a minus are going to be junk. 1 they use up a slot and 2 the bonus will never out weight the negative. lets use the large laser u gain 20m for .2 heat. every thing is linear AGAIN. can not stress thinking out side the box and maybe giving each size a different bonus. okay back on topic, even if we go to 5 lvls assume linear because pgi can not think out side of that box u get 100m and 1 heat. yes that will give the large laser finally some decent range but is it worth all that extra heat u stack.

[Trauglodyte]

keith, on 05 February 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

the lvl 1 teir range mods are junk. all the plus with a minus are going to be junk. 1 they use up a slot and 2 the bonus will never out weight the negative. lets use the large laser u gain 20m for .2 heat. every thing is linear AGAIN. can not stress thinking out side the box and maybe giving each size a different bonus. okay back on topic, even if we go to 5 lvls assume linear because pgi can not think out side of that box u get 100m and 1 heat. yes that will give the large laser finally some decent range but is it worth all that extra heat u stack.

I don't know. A 22% increase in range for a 12% increase in heat isn't bad. The ER Large Laser gains a 50% gain in range for a 21% gain in heat. For one module slot, you're essentially making all of your regular Large Lasers into a NER Lrg (nearly extended range). Look at it this way: You've got a mech which runs Lrg Lasers and plays relatively cool for the number of heat sinks that you've built into the mech. If you run ERs, you're probably running too hot and are forced to drop weapons for range. This gives you the middile of the road.

More importantly, though, this isn't really for mechs with mixed builds. This is going to be for mech builds that are either boating OR for mechs using weapons where there is no ER option (everything that isn't a Large Laser or PPC). And, a lot of people are looking at this in the wrong light. For missiles, this is a huge gain. SRMs are handicapped by the 270m hard cap. And, for LRMs, with BAP and the sensor module, you can lock on at 1200m but can't hit anything at that range due to the hard cap. Finally, this allows Small Lasers to actually have some sort of functionality when you consider that they now go from 90m (base) to 190m (w/ the lvl 5 module). That's Md Pulse range without the heat or weight.

[SniperCon]

Using the medium laser as an example, it does an additional 0.2 to 0.38 additional damage at beyond optimal range. The cost is being less head efficient up to optimal range, but it has IMPROVED heat efficient beyond optimal range. This is certainly useful for builds which A. run cool or B. like to fire beyond optimal range. Is it the best module in the game? No. Is it useful for some mechs? Yes. My Yen-Lo-Wang thanks PGI.

[Sprouticus]

PGI is in a catch 22

If they make them useful (even at level 5), then people who dont have them will complain of P2W
If they don't, then pretty much every other module is more useful.

I suppose if they added weapon module slots (along with consumable module slots and general module slots), then MAYBE they become worth it. But even then, Level 5 will be at LEAST 2500 GXP, if not more. Per weapon. Plus the C-Bills. Plus the heat disadvantage.

Frankly I think these are DOA. Nice idea, no way to make them useful without breaking the F2P model.

[SniperCon]

Sprouticus, on 05 February 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Frankly I think these are DOA. Nice idea, no way to make them useful without breaking the F2P model.

They are free. CB and GXP are free.

They can situationally useful. Not totally worth the heat, but if your mech runs cool why not?

There you go. Not DOA, not OP, not P2W.

[DaZur]

Personally I think you folks are overstating their worthlessness.

Absolutely they do not turn your weapons into BFG2000s. That said, I think your vector is too linear... damage isn't always just about "damage".

Sometimes he who damages first has the advantage... Or for that matter maximizes their potential to inflict damage.

In short... Those few short 10 to 20 meters extra where one is able to apply full damage output while your opponents shots are out of range and their damage is diminished may make a difference.

Obviously some testing is in order...

Edited by DaZur, 05 February 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I don't like these modules precisely because they seem to encourage boating. If you're going to use up one of your precious module slots for a slight buff to a particular weapon, you're going to want to dedicate more of your tonnage and hardpoints to that weapon.

[Naduk]

i agree with the unimaginative argument

Sparkie LRM
removes minimum range on LRM weapons
any time a LRM launcher is fired under 180m you risk an ammo explosion

Dumbfire LRM
when fired with out lockon LRM's will fly in a straight line (like an AC round)
LRM's fired in this way will not be guided at all and fly out of control between 300m-600m

these are just off the top of my head
there is so much you could do with weapon modules, you dont even need to remove the current ones

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Modules to promote and synergies the use of multiple identical weapons..
Ghost heat to penalize the use of multiple identical weapon systems.

make up your mind already.

[Galenit]

Small Laser 2/4m 0.04 heat
AC2 15/45m 0.02 heat

Ballistic weapons get a tiny little bit to their very small heat,
but get most out of the modules, because their 3x range.

They should make acs 2x range to bring them more in balance with the other weapons.

If not, it would be better if the modules for them would increase the recycletime a little bit,
instead of the heat to balance their massive range advantage.

Edited by Galenit, 05 February 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[Pwnocchio]

Bhael Fire, on 04 February 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

Honestly, the extra meters gained from these modules is not worth the extra heat.

I'd rather take the extra foot steps required to gain that distance than take a heat penalty.

This is certainly true for the laser weapons. I can't imagine ever buying them unless they change the penalty to 'rate of fire' rather than 'heat'.

Autocannons, I'll probably use those modules. The heat isn't really an issue.