61 replies to this topic

[jper4]

the only time i go light hunting in my lights is 1) if i'm in an oxide or 2) if the light i see is a Locust that isn't the 3M or 3) we both happen to meet out in the middle of nowhere somewhere while we're both trying to sneak to the other team's flank/rear.

my mediums i try to keep with the big boys and watch their backs- especially the LRM boats til the battle shifts to one side or another and something different is called for. i especially like to sit well behind it to watch that eager little light come rushing up behind the lrm boat and have no idea i'm a couple hundred meters behind it or around the corner/wherever waiting to alpha it (a measureable percentage of lights i've seen when finding a LRM boat like to park right behind it and blast away trusting in the slow torso twist to give them time to run. sitting ducks are nice )

[Buckminster]

I personally have much better luck taking on enemy lights with a medium. A little slower, but better arms and armor. It is a bit harder to chase them down, but I also find that the slightly slower speed of the medium makes for a more stable firing platform - I have a hard time keeping my reticule on target if we're both going 150+ kph!

And with the inrush of Firestarters, now is a great time to take out my 4 SSRM Griffin. May be able to outrun me, but those streaks make sure you pay if you try and linger around.

[Bront]

JaniTheWeedman, on 20 February 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

Some people said that lights should hunt down enemy lights, and defend our tema against them. That's just not true. We have mediums for that task, armed with streaks and a lot of lasers. Yes, you're gonna run into lights if you follow the tactics described above. And most of the times you're gonna have to finish them off. This takes time (it usually takes as long as taking down an atlas), Engage if you have to, but don't follow him back to his team, you're gonna get shredded) You should always be aggressive, keep pressure on the enemy, but do it smart.

It's certainly not the best primary role of a light, but it's not a bad secondary role. Lights should be prepared to potentially engage in other lights simply because often their roles result in multiple mechs heading for the same places. Doesn't mean every light has to be an "anti-light" build, but being prepared to help teammates is certainly a function lights can play, and can be a good secondary role for most lights.

Otherwise, by your Rock/Paper/Scissors example, assaults shouldn't be engaging other assaults in combat, they should be going after mediums (or heavies).

[1453 R]

They should be! An assault 'mech quickly mangling an enemy medium or heavy 'Mech reduces the enemy team's ability faster than that same assault 'mech slugging it out with something its own size. If you're in that meta-friendly Highvictor, by all means knock out the other side's Shadow Hawks first! That lets your light 'Mechs sweep in and harass the enemy's fatties to give you easier shots and relieve pressure, and we ALL know that the first team to get a two-kill advantage is usually the team that's going to win. Claim those kills quickly!

You should always be prepared to fight in your own weight class if you have to, but the nature of the game rewards proper target selection as much as anything else. Most every weight class's best target is the class directly beneath it, with the exception being the light 'Mech's preference for nibbling on assaults. Stepping up a weight class means you have the edge in armor and firepower without being so much slower than you can't keep up. Mediums are natural predators of light 'Mechs, heavies like to prey on enemy mediums, and assaults enjoy ripping up enemy heavies (and unwary mediums). Everyone'll take shots at whatever's a good target, but you should always remember that a fair fight's the last thing you want on the battlefield, eh?

[stjobe]

1453 R, on 23 February 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

you should always remember that a fair fight's the last thing you want on the battlefield, eh?

Tactically, truer words were never spoken.

The match-up should be fair, the weapons/mechs/equipment should be balanced so one side does not have an inherent advantage; but once you've dropped, all concepts of fairness should be banished from your mind - especially if you're dropping in a Light.

Never fight fair, ever.

[MnDragon]

BillHones, on 06 February 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

everyone is still talking if's, but's, and assumptions, that this and only this is the only role you can have. I also didn't feel the need to point out that engaging another mech has to be in your favor. apparently I do. engaging another mech has to be in your favor.

to all of you that think they you are supposed to shoot the big guys first, what happens when I shoot you? now you have no lights. I can now do what you set out to do, to your team.

Dude, Wrong OP is Wrong. Lights do not hang with Assaults. Period. No "ifs", no "Buts" a light sitting next to a fatlas in combat is waiting for a 40+ alpha to the face and insta-death. The current Meta is thus: Lights go find the enemy, harass them, piss them off by capping and forcing them to go back to base, Leg them while they are busy shooting at my team, Get them to turn around and TRY to hit me as I use my maneuverability to dodge and weave and oh, let them hit their own teammates trying to get me, and if I'm really lucky, have half their team chase me like a squirrel. You say what happens when you shoot me? Good luck! That AC20 won't touch me...oh wait, there is one instance that it can...I believe its when I'm moving slower than 80kph LIKE AN ASSAULT/HEAVY.

The job you are describing? That belongs to a medium or a fast moving heavy...Which my 2D2 is excellent at. 4 Streaks and an LB10 make quick work of lights. So if your Fatlas has its paint scuffed...complain to the medium. There is a reason there is a saying that Atlas is god and Hunchback is his prophet...just saying.

Edited by MnDragon, 23 February 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Bront]

MnDragon, on 23 February 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Dude, Wrong OP is Wrong. Lights do not hang with Assaults. Period. No "ifs", no "Buts" a light sitting next to a fatlas in combat is waiting for a 40+ alpha to the face and insta-death.

Hanging by the big boys doesn't always mean simply standing still. You can "satellite" around a larger mech in a light pretty effectively if you know what you're doing, being constantly on the move, updating them on what's near them, watching their flank and sides, and providing useful scouting advice without being a forward scout.

Yes, it does work better as a medium, but that doesn't mean you can't do it as a light and be successful. It's actually a good way to play some of your squishier lights (cough-locust-cough)

[mailin]

Sometimes, I will stay by the brawlers in my 5D. But, here's an IF for the OP, it's only IF my team has no other ECM and IF we're on an LRM friendly map, like Caustic. Then, IF I see the enemy LRM symbol heading to my friendlies, I will run to the area so I can give ECM cover in the chance that the missiles will lose lock before hitting. The whole time, I am dancing around giving ECM cover to whoever is being targeted by those lrms. This has two advantages. 1) It allows the brawlers to move in to brawling range without taking too much damage and 2) It wastes the enemy's ammo.

If, however, my team has a DDC, which is more the norm rather than the previously mentioned exception, I will look for where those enemy lrms are coming from and head there to take out that enemy lrm boat. If I can get him alone, he will either try to focus on me, in which case he's stopped firing his lrms at my buddies, or he will continue firing his lrms, in which case I can core him from the backside. If he's not alone, maybe I can get someone to chase me while that lrm boat tries to get a lock. Either way, it's a win for my team.

As far as there not being psych warfare in MWO, oh there is my friends. If there weren't, 3 assaults would never chase squirrels and the constant barrage from those 5 lrm5 Stalkers wouldn't tick anybody off. What with the flashes all over the viewscreen and the cockpit shake.

Sorry, OP, if you maintain that you are right, I hope you're on the enemy team next time I drop.

Edited by mailin, 27 February 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[Agro Man]

I think lights are the best anti assults in the game.. I have done the most damage I have ever done in a Jenner-F... I have faught a truly bad light pilot in a one VS one fights... I believe I am a good light pilot but I still took 25%-15% damage from him... I killed him but he still did a lot of damage to me! My goal as a light is too stay fresh and healthy so if I get pegged my an AC20 I live! If I faught that light at the begining of EVERY match as your suggesting BillHones then I lose 20% of my armor and then WAM a Jaeger who can shoot kills me... While if I was fighting a heavy I may take 20% damage but do 50% to him and that means a good fatlas can kill him and take only 10% damage.... and how much did our Kintaro take killing that light? maybe 10% damage.. That means we have a fairly fresh light.. a fresh kintaro... a fresh atlas and two dead mechs... While if I dueled lights.. I would be damaged.... our Stearktaro is almost usless fighting assults... and are atlas is dead..

[Josef Nader]

The light mechs most important job, in my experience, is to turn the enemy team. When the teams engage, lines tend to form. If these lines are allowed to continue, the team who brought the most armor wins (provided the players are of equal skill). The fast moving mechs job is go quickly flank the enemy team once the lines form and force part of their line to disengage from your guys. Force the enemy to divide their attention. The better the light mechs are at drawing the enemy's attention away from the main group, the better. Once they have attention, the main group can push in and overwhelm the weakend line, then mop up the mechs that went after the lights. Everyone profits.

Medium mechs are much better assault escorts than lights, as they can pack enough streaks or pinpoint damage with enough mobility to keep up with the light pilot, but they usually don't have the speed to run off solo like lights do. They're much better off sticking with assaults and fending off the fast movers.

Edited by Josef Nader, 03 March 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[Agro Man]

Josef Nader, on 03 March 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

The light mechs most important job, in my experience, is to turn the enemy team. When the teams engage, lines tend to form. If these lines are allowed to continue, the team who brought the most armor wins (provided the players are of equal skill). The fast moving mechs job is go quickly flank the enemy team once the lines form and force part of their line to disengage from your guys. Force the enemy to divide their attention. The better the light mechs are at drawing the enemy's attention away from the main group, the better. Once they have attention, the main group can push in and overwhelm the weakend line, then mop up the mechs that went after the lights. Everyone profits.

Medium mechs are much better assault escorts than lights, as they can pack enough streaks or pinpoint damage with enough mobility to keep up with the light pilot, but they usually don't have the speed to run off solo like lights do. They're much better off sticking with assaults and fending off the fast movers.

I really cant agree there.... Meds (most of them exept Hunchy, and Cent) are great at killing lights... you pit a SSRM Kintaro, Griffin or ShadowHawk against a light there most likly gonna win.. ( equel skill pilots) But a SSRM med against a heavy or assult its most likly gonna lose.... Almost EVERY med can be set up to kill lights.... Trebs, BJs, and Wolverines are the worst anti lights... and they can still be outfitted quite well... Even the best meds anti heavy buils are still not the best at killing heavy/assults while if you outfit it to be anti-light it is the best weight class at anti-light... Its all about class capablitys and meds are BEST against lights... I mean a Treb with 2 SSRM 4 ML at 139KPH... Kintaro, Shadwohawk, Griffin at 116 KPH with 4 SSRM or 5 SSRM.... is VERY good at its job!

Edited by Agro Man, 05 March 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[John Buford]

Agro Man, on 04 March 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

I really cant agree there.... Meds (most of them exept Hunchy, and Cent) are great at killing lights... you pit a SSRM Kintaro, Griffin or ShadowHawk against a light there most likly gonna win.. ( equel skill pilots) But a SSRM med against a heavy or assult its most likly gonna lose.... Almost EVERY med cant be set up to kill lights.... Trebs, BJs, and Wolverines are the worst anti lights... and they can still be outfitted quite well... Even the best meds anti heavy buils are still not the best at killing heavy/assults while if you outfit it to be anti-light it is the best weight class at anti-light... Its all about class capablitys and meds are BEST against lights... I mean a Treb with 2 SSRM 4 ML at 139KPH... Kintaro, Shadwohawk, Griffin at 116 KPH with 4 SSRM or 5 SSRM.... is VERY good at its job!

Uhhh No, just no.


If you want a Light Killer put something like a 300XL in it so you can go 97kph with a speed tweek, and you are fast enough to do your job. Now your job is not to run around as fast as you can and chase down lights but to escort the big guns. With some Streaks you can do just fine keeping the Lights clear of the flanks and rear areas, and with the tonnage you save you can mount some bigger weapons to assist the firing line. Most likely that is what Josef Nader is talking about.


Edited this to show a quick build I threw together, and I am actualy thinking of downgrading the engine to get mor ammo. SHD-2D2

Edited by John Buford, 04 March 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[Agro Man]

srry I meant can"! I really agree with the fact meds are THE best at killing lights... I am srry I mistyped..

Edited by Agro Man, 05 March 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[B0oN]

Do you guys know what my light Mechs keep telling me ...

YOU CAN DO IT !

[Ravnis]

I just follow the cookie.

[aldarmoon]

great info

[aldarmoon]

thanks great info

[Zelumbras]

I think that The Schwartz pretty much nailed it by stating that you cannot really use the term 'a lights primary role'. No other weight class has such a great difference between the individual chassis where the heaviest mech weights a considerable 75% more that the lightest.

If, however, you are the only light (and maybe even the only fast/mobile mech in general) in your team, you might have to fill out some general roles, not because your mech is good at it but rather because it may be the only one capable to do so in the team.
In these cases there are a few things that you may consider doing at the beginning of a match:
- scout initial enemy positions/movement to get a feeling for their general strategy and relay the info to your team. There are a only a few 'standard' routes that players will usually go, so this often comes down to just option A, B or C etc.
- harrass/kill the lonely slow assault left behind while the rest of the enemy team is clustering up.
- cap (conquest)
- bait enemy mechs into following you to weaken their main force
After these first 1-3 min. of the match you can usually focus on whatever role you build your mech to do best.

[AkilaX]

Atlas hunting is all fine and dandy. I prefer to remain flexible and asses the battlefield. My Raven is set up for missile support(tag/NARC) and ECM cover/counter. I do like a good high speed chase though so sometimes I'll drop NARC for Streaks. And man that missile rain looks pretty. Ever actually watched LRMs raining down on enemy blobs? Picture a toddler getting sprayed by the garden hose for the first time.

I play to have fun and supporting is what I do the best. My Raven will out support any support that's ever supported anyone who needed support.
Nuff Said...

[AkilaX]

In addition to my last post, if you read:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven
It explains what the Raven's role is and was always meant to be. Specially the Raven-3L. The other Ravens included in the game were given slightly better combat capability. Slightly. 2 x MGs isn't exactly phenomenal fire power.
Sure you might think "But you can customize moron!" Well yeah you're right.
But I believe if a light was to over heat due to prolonged firing of large energy weapons, the wretched thing would melt from the inside out. That's just me though.
IS pilots' barbaric ways will never cease to disgust me.
I've said too much...I must go, my ppl need me...