1026 replies to this topic

[Andross Deverow]

Viges, on 06 February 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

ROFL!! I love this.... I agree totally..

Regards

[DocBach]

Padde, on 06 February 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

For instance, just reduce the reload time for JJs and give them more heat. That way the JJs are still usefull for movement, but much less an option for an attack/offensive move!

the way that jump jets worked in Battletech was a burst of heat during ignition (+3 heat), then additional heat for each point of movement used. Maybe a large burst of heat for ignition in MWO for each ignition could help dissuade the bunny hopping/quick turning during brawls.

[kbilly]

Ryan Steel, on 05 February 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

We're going to dominate you no matter what gets nerfed in this game. We've used brawlers, lasers, direct fire, and every single mech and weapon system in it.

lol this guy is so scared of having his baby nerfed! The Highlander is literally the only mech I ever see him in when I've played against him.

Here's a fun video of him not "dominating no matter what".



You can skip to 4:36 after the HoL insecure chest thumping at the beginning to see where his epeen starts to get deflated.

Fjord kbilly

glenclose

Edited by kbilly, 06 February 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[DocBach]

Drunk Canuck, on 06 February 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Which is the way it should be. Arm mounted weapons should fire at the same area since they can be actuated from side to side in most cases, however arm mounted weapons that only have a vertical movement and no horizontal motion would have to fire in a straight line since they can't be as finely tuned as an actuated arm for accuracy. Sure, you might be able to put 2 PPC's in the CT of a Mech because they are mounted on elbow and shoulder actuators but that torso mounted AC20 is going to land elsewhere if triggered at the same time.

Sort of - each weapon mount, even in torsos are suppose to be able to actuate a bit in its mounts to track their targets. Absolute convergence should be achievable (though probably not in the timespan of a hill-hump jump), but we would need to have some sort of locking indicator to let us know that we've got it. We didn't have that in closed beta, and instead of fixing it they removed it completely.

[AlmightyAeng]

Hey, UI 2.0 arrived...and now Paul's hinting at "aggressive balancing." Well that's nice.

While you're out there pointing the nerf gun, Paul, please remember that you also have a buffing wheel in your toolkit.

If you're looking at nerfing a specific chassis, please bear in mind WHY you think it needs nerfed. Please consider the possibility that it's not the CHASSIS that's OP, but it's ability to efficiently use certain game mechanics you've created.

Should be interesting to see what happens.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 06 February 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[FactorlanP]

I really think that the answer to the Poptart meta is to disallow weapons fire while airborne.

Do this, and then you can restore mobility back to Jump Jets. You could tone the jump jet shake down a great deal, because you wouldn't need it to disrupt fire anymore.

Jump jets could be really fun again.

[Villz]

Drunk Canuck, on 06 February 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

It's amusing, the scrub who gets 12-0'd in high ELO drops when doing 4 mans with some of the best players in the game calls other people terribad. I will enjoy watching the ego's of every single scrub on your team implode when you get 3-0'd in an RHOD match soon enough. Keep trolling though, maybe some day PGI will do the right thing and rid us of the cancerous plague that is you and Villz permanently.

Pretty sure we ggclosed u real hard 2 series back to back in RHOD when me and ryan played as DV8

[Victor Morson]

Drunk Canuck, on 06 February 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

The only 4 really bad jump snipers are the CTF-3D, SHD's, VTR's and HGN's, and jump jets are the reason. The give little to no bonus effects for improved thrust having more then one and their current thrust and how much height you can get is too high.

Jump Jets are not the reason. SHD and CTF and VTR are still all completely excellent 'mechs in no jump jet games. Even the Highlander fits this bill. We've played plenty of them in Marik seasons.

The problem is again:

• The way the hardpoint are laid out, including the dead "shield side" on some of these
  
• The weapons they use: Energy + Ballistic = viable.
  
• The weapons they can't use.....
  
• - Energy Assaults - Killed by Ghost Heat
  
• - SRM Assaults - Killed by Hit Detection (BUFF THE VELOCITY A BIT!)
  
• - Pure Ballistic Assaults - There are none.
  
• - LRM Assaults - LRMs are horrendous on slow 'mechs.
  
• - Heavy AC Assaults - AC/10 and LBX/10 are ho-hum to awful, only AC/20 works well... paired with PPCs.

Again Paul made this system where the only good 'mechs are ones that hit as hard as possible while dancing around his Heat Scaling system, just as we said would happen. Jump jets are but a minor factor in this right now.



If Ghost Heat died tomorrow and SRMs got a buff we'd suddenly see the Battlemaster and Stalker rise to be every bit as good as the Highlander in a fight, if not better, and all would be well. The Awesome needs even more help than that, it needs a flat visual redesign (made like 20% more narrow) or some serious 'mech quirks beyond pitch & yaw.. but at least it'd be able to use some PPCs like, you know, the Awesome should.

Edited by Victor Morson, 06 February 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

FactorlanP, on 06 February 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

I really think that the answer to the Poptart meta is to disallow weapons fire while airborne.

Do this, and then you can restore mobility back to Jump Jets. You could tone the jump jet shake down a great deal, because you wouldn't need it to disrupt fire anymore.

Jump jets could be really fun again.

This isnt the answer. The solution is simple, make the high alpha jumping gun platforms have to maximize the number of jumpjets to gain altitude. Its so simple, if they want to poptart they need to have all jumpjet slots in use. This way they will have to re-evaluate thier weapon loadouts.

Regards

Edited by Andross Deverow, 06 February 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 06 February 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Sounds like it was gg close.

The thing about the meta is that I'm sure people do try to copy/emulate it, but ultimately there's usually more people that have a clue to move onto the next thing (instead of outright whining+ragequit), thus I tend to think the fair portion people that complain about the meta... simply don't get it (aka run completely bad builds and/or use bad tactics). It's hard to lump them all into the same boat because I'm sure a bunch of them don't enjoy (I don't either, but I do the meta because I need the C-bills) but so much of the whining ("the noise") tends to come from the ill-informed so if you had to actually question them, they couldn't give you a reasonable/logical response other that "it sucks" or "I don't/can't replicate it myself, so it must be hax".

Ultimately, I think the PGI dart board of balance™ is in play here.

I don't disagree with any particular point of this.

The problem with the meta is the fact that it's the meta. I don't care that its the HGN or (insert FOTM(Y) here) it's that people get on the forums and say to "nerf" it leading to people investigating the build trying to find an easy button.

This becomes the equivalent of a monkey with a gun.

They become a liability on the battlefield because they're in tryhard mode, trying to emulate the videos of the people who have become an expert with this FOTM, and lead to being an almost deciding factor in the teams loss, all the while saying "This team sucks" in chat, because obviously, they were in the meta, and if we had just acknowledged this, we would have won (even though they were the first to die, and had a whopping 30 damage on the scoreboard).

It's like when the PPC Stalker was the FOTM, and the chat screen would fill with your teammates who blew them selves up because they couldn't wrap their brain around the fact that Heat Mitigation was where the actual skill was in that build.

The 'meta' also leads to the "bad build" mentality. FOTM says that anyone not adhering to the cookie-cutter layout, is running a "bad build". The only "Bad build" is one you suck in. IMO, the HGN meta is a "Bad Build" because I suck in it. But you put me in a RVN with 2ML and 2 SSRM or a C1 with 2 LRM 15s and 2 ML, and I'm teabagging your smoldering remains

[Victor Morson]

FactorlanP, on 06 February 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

I really think that the answer to the Poptart meta is to disallow weapons fire while airborne.

Everyone who thinks poptarting is a problem is looking at last year. Sure it's still used to a degree but most people want to get aggressively into (U)AC fire lines right now. This isn't the "Super Mega PPC + Gauss" meta anymore guys. That's been dead for ages. Poptarting is something that's done to soften people up for the blow now, with mid-range engagements being favored.

Nobody is favoring CLOSE RANGE right now, but also, people are trying to pull to within UAC optimal now without the extended range of the Gauss allowing those "sit way back" situations.

Jump Jets are literally not the reason the Highlander is great. Jump Jets are super useful and you need them to handle maps, so yes, it's a major factor but again that's more for handling terrain than fighting, since they opted to make terrain STOP 'mechs instead of SLOW them. Even if they became unusable in a fight, it'll do nothing to the Highlander's status or any other like it.

[Damocles]

@OP

Maybe consider better map design to deal with issues like 'brawling v. sniping', and 'LRM death rain cuz i can't find cover' or 'omg i overheat no matter what I do' and '12 mechs focus fire instant kill because theres no room to maneuver around them'


or just nerf things.

Edited by Damocles, 06 February 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Nerf warriors. There is no hope for these guys.

[N0V0CAIN]

Here is the solution:

Make SRMS viable and reliable and the jump starters will runn for the hills.... Right now there is no reason to brawl.

[AlmightyAeng]

Roadbeer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

I don't disagree with any particular point of this.

The problem with the meta is the fact that it's the meta. I don't care that its the HGN or (insert FOTM(Y) here) it's that people get on the forums and say to "nerf" it leading to people investigating the build trying to find an easy button.

This becomes the equivalent of a monkey with a gun.

BOW TO MY META!

Edited by Ghost Badger, 06 February 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[IIIuminaughty]

It's never a problem with the mech, it is the problem with the pilot, piloting the mech. I taken down countless Highlanders. Doesn't matter how much you nerf a mech or boost it, if the pilot isn't good he isn't good, if he is good, then damnit he is good.

[Victor Morson]

StrataDragoon, on 06 February 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

It's never a problem with the mech, it is the problem with the pilot, piloting the mech. I taken down countless Highlanders. Doesn't matter how much you nerf a mech or boost it, if the pilot isn't good he isn't good, if he is good, then damnit he is good.

The Highlander will always have an edge over a similar pilot in, say, a Battlemaster or Stalker right now. So that is true. But it's the environment in which the game is happening, NOT the 'mech.

Ghost Heat is laying playing a weird house rule that totally reshuffles the game. If that Battlemaster could run 6 Larges, 4 PPCs, 4 Large Pulse (Provided they ever fix Large Pulse.. aggressive weapons balance Paul, remember it?), etc. it would absolutely stand up to a Highlander consistently in fights. But unless you want to macro and deal with all kinds of downsides, you're stuck running Energy + Ballistic.

Edited by Victor Morson, 06 February 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[RG Notch]

Roadbeer, on 06 February 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

This becomes the equivalent of a monkey with a gun.

[TheMagician]

Yes, the Highlander rocks. Who cares? What type of gameplay is the goal.?If it's not 600m range fighting, then yes the game needs adjustments. Nerfing the hgn would only help to an extent, for, as people said, the Dragonslayer is a 10 ton lighter Heavy Metal. But truly, the greatest threat to DDC pushes right now -are- highlanders and Canyon Network. So if you take away the ability of a Hgn to be effective, then you might see a bit more diversity in competitive play. I see plenty of diversity in open games, as most avid players enjoy playing various mechs/styles, but crunch down when it comes to matchtime.



If you think brawling doesn't work, then you don't follow the current competitive play. Brawling is nearly as good now as it ever was. You just don't boat SRMs, like in the past. Now you have machine guns, PPCs, UAC5s, AC20s, ac5s, large pulse, strks, and Ac10s. Don't be surprised that in large maps people still start off the fight trying to shoot at range. Small laser range fights on Tourmaline won't improve this game.

When we get the Launch module, changes will occur. People will have to craft specific configs for various maps. A mech optimized for frozen city will not work well on Terra Therma. Strategies will be developed and builds developed for specific maps. You'll see more variety.



If they want forced mech variety, then they'll have to add that part in Community Warfare. For example, perhaps the only mechs 'available' in a certain battle are Awesomes, Dragons, Battlemasters, and Commandos. Trial versions/champions avail if people don't have their own will solve any issues of not having the chassi.

Edited by TheMagician, 06 February 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Imperius]

Paul Inouye, on 05 February 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Sitting across from the studio from me is a board with all the 'Mechs on it. In my crosshairs... the Highlander. More info to follow along with intended implementation date. Just giving you all a heads up.

THANK YOU!

Someone post the it's about time YouTube video for me