TygerLily, on 10 February 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:
Can I ask you a serious question though? I've been playing for over a year now so it's not a matter of L2P...I've been through all the nonsense you have as PGI "balances" the game...Do you think that the poptart tactic is unbalanced? If not, why do the "competitive" teams run 10 of them? If the game is supposed to have balanced roles then wouldn't you NEED to have more than just direct fire?
I was probably too hostile in my responses toward deforce and co. earlier in this thread...I wasn't attacking you as players but just that you claim to be the best but you use the easiest mechs. Isn't that backwards? Kaffe said himself "Brawling is more fun." You yourself just said that without JJ it's rekindles some love for the game. Isn't that because the easy-mode is like playing a game with infinite ammo and health...boring?
I'm saying, we get matched up and I never see you use your superior skill to brawl with the odd-man-out weight class...you just bring four 80-90 ton poptarts and kill stuff from 1000 meters.
I had to think of your question seriously.
Let's take a walk down memory lane first. Poptarting came into play before the Highlander. Even before the first PPC buff (lower heat, higher projectile speed, hit detection), there were a few people in the game that used to poptart. Lots of you guys remember RockWolf. He was one of the first players to do it in this game with the Cat 3D. Not saying he was the first, but he was certainly one of them. He did it before the first buff. Around then, the tactic was used by dedicated back snipers, namely by clan DV8. It was effective when used properly, but few could pull it off. Most snipers prefered the gauss cat. It ran cool, there was no damage spread, and the alpha was considerable. The projectile speed of the PPC was slow, it run hot, and it spread damage, and worst of all, it had poor hit detection. DV8 always prefered ranged builds as it allowed them greater flexibility. This was at a time before I joined them. I was a dedicated medium pilot and Atlas pilot and I specialized in brawling. I also had my Ryan Steel Atlas RS special with 4 Large Lasers and 24 DHS. I never encountered poptarting very often, and when I did, I never showed my face, but used my speed to close in quick. Those builds were high alpha, but they overheated quick, and they'd get crushed at brawling range. During this time, most competitive units swore by DDC and centi brawlers. I never used the gausscat or the 3D up to that point. I never was threatened by them either. I never could understand the hysteria about them at the time. From my perspective, they were easily counterable.
Fast forward a bit to after January 2013. The first PPC buff took place, and more competitive units started using them, but most mixed them with brawlers with only their dedicated sniper pilots using the poptart 3ds. With the first PPC buff, poptarting became even more effective in the right hands. A well placed shot would pack a wallop. If my memory serves, it was still more of a competitive unit tactic and had still not become common in pug matches. Pug matches were dominated by the splat cat. I never used one as I didn't quite enjoy it. Still, I never had a problem against them. I'd always keep them at arm's length and make sure they were down before they got close. If they did get close I'd still manage to put them down, albeit suffering massive amounts of damage, and that was in an Atlas to boot. Despite all the rage about the splat cat and SRMs, I felt that the balance of the game was in more or less a good place. The king of the battlefield may have been recognized as the splat cat, but a good Cat 3D pilot could shoot you in the cockpit easily for a one hit kill. If they failed to killed the cat before it closed in, it was a one shot by the cat. There was a choice. Yeah, admittedly one salvoing an Awesome or a 3D is outrageous, but things could have been worse I think.
Around March, Adrian Steel stopped playing MWO and I decided to join a unit. DV8 caught my eye, so I decided to play with them for a while and see if I wanted to join them. I dabbled into jump sniping with a 3D and a 2 ER PPC 2 SRM 6 C1 'pult and got used to it instantly. I had a good aim, and the only thing I needed to get used to was positioning. SRMs were first halved in damage in a patch in waiting for a fix on splash damage. Brawling became less effective, but was still doable.
By April, everything about MWO was about to change when the Heavy Metal was released. I made my first buld with it which became my first dedicated jump sniper: 2 ER PPC, Gauss, 5 JJ, full armor, and an XL 330. I could do anything with it. It had no weakness. Granted, it was only as good as its pilot, and the vast majority of players couldn't make it work. It fact, people thought the make was terrible when it first came out to my surprise, and I had never been so dominant. I mean with my mediums and my Atlas I could crush entire teams, but that was before Elo was implemented. Who knows who I was facing? When Elo was implemented, I would still win, but I was facing better opponents. There was only so much I could do in an Atlas or a Hunchback.
There was no limit to what I could do with the Heavy Metal. It was God-tier, and before the other Highlanders came out, it was the absolute P2W mech. Unrivaled if used properly. I could handle multiple opponents on top of me at the same time and beat them by rolling damage. By the time I joined DV8, the other highlanders came out and the
First Popart/PPC war was born. Every single player in our Elo bracket had poptarts or Stalkers with PPCs. The splat cat had died even before it was completely nerfed to oblivion. In the next SRM nerf patch, splash damage was removed without a concomitant increase in damage to their old values. Brawling was ruined. This led to Koreanese uninstalling the game, as he loved brawling.
The rest is simply recent tweaks with Gauss, ghost heat, and other shenanigans.
So to answer your question, yes, I think it's unbalanced
right now because all the alternatives are garbage in comparison. I think it requires skill to master well, and better players will win against other jumpsnipers. Do I think there's a counter to jumpsniping other than jumpsniping? The answer is yes, but only if you're a lot better than your opponent. For instance, Villz and I are very similar in ability, and if he was in a poptart, and I was in anything else but a Stalker, I think he would win without a shred of doubt provided he kept a decent distance from me. We did some tests with different highlander builds just for kicks and my large laser heavy metal was superior to his 733c ac20 ppc build at medium range and in the open. The poptarts are effective in areas of cover and with some range. A top player with a poptart would need a long range Stalker or another poptart to beat him, or a player in any other build that somehow vastly surpasses this top player's skill. For instance, while I've been strictly using non-jumpjet, non-ppc builds for the past few days, I definitely realize I'm playing with a handicap. I have good aim and I'm good at rolling damage. I have to play much better than the jump snipers to beat them. I have to vastly outplay them. When I do, I succeed. When I don't, I get instagibbed pretty much, and it's happened quite a few times in the past few days when I'd just poke out of cover for just a second and get alpha'd by 5-6 ppc mechs at the same time and cored. Whereas with a jumpsniper of my own, I only have to slightly outplay my opponent to beat them. Simply having a better aim ensures victory here. Without at least high alpha long range direct fire, you need superior aim, positioning, patience, and decisiveness on when to put on the pressure and that's against someone not as skilled as you that's jumpsniping. Whoever tells you otherwise is lying through their teeth.
It's not easymode right now because everyone is doing it. It basically puts you at equal footing. A jumpsniper against a non-jumpsniper non-stalker at range is lmaoroflcoptered if the player is of the same skill. When I cave a jumpsniping team's face in with a 3 LL 2 AC5 Protector, that's humiliation. That's like getting knifed. I should get rolled by good teams 100% of the time in that build against their JJ builds. That isn't the case though.
I've had enough of the PPC jump sniping, and so I've stopped. I'll use it to win competitive drops, or if I keep facing 12 HGNs again and again in pugs. With the current balance I'm gimping myself, but this is putting me through effective and intense training even when I get pooped on now and again. If a rebalance ever comes underway, I'll have an even bigger edge against my opponents. I don't think it needs to be nerfed, I just think other weapon systems need to be buffed and maneuverability of non-jj mechs needs to be buffed. Then, any build will be able to counter a poptart provided there's equal skill in question.
Edited by Ryan Steel, 10 February 2014 - 09:23 PM.
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