1026 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 February 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

nothing cheap to it, but it's your typical chaos incarnate twitch fest. No real tactics either.

Now, to be fair, like any PvP game you'll get a competitive end where tactics absolutely do happen, but it'll always be a chaotic twitch fest. Some people love that, and that's great for them... but for me, that's just not fun.

There's a reason MWO is the _only_ PvP game I play, or have any interest in.

(* actually, I do kind of enjoy War Thunder as well, but rarely play it)

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 15 February 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Now, to be fair, like any PvP game you'll get a competitive end where tactics absolutely do happen, but it'll always be a chaotic twitch fest. Some people love that, and that's great for them... but for me, that's just not fun.

There's a reason MWO is the _only_ PvP game I play, or have any interest in.

(* actually, I do kind of enjoy War Thunder as well, but rarely play it)

actually need to get into War Thunder. Looks fun.

[MavRCK]

MERC Mournblade, on 15 February 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

I'm so over this game, and strangely enough, its not the abysmal weapons balancing or netcode issues, but the 45 degree angle hill nerf. True story, I rage quitted the other night because I was trying to get my jagermech to walk backwards up a 10 degree incline, and the bloody thing wouldn't budge.

Can Paul truly say that his QA team hasn't told him about: 1) balance 2) netcode 3) incline issues?

Will Paul step forward and take responsibility?

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 February 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

actually need to get into War Thunder. Looks fun.

The best part of it IMHO is how while obviously you want a joystick for The Experience, the mouse and keyboard controls are spectacularly usable. They use a very unique... I dunno, AI assisted system? The game still uses "proper" controls, but it translates your mouse/keyboard controls into the proper controls as you play.

As well, it's got different game modes that I feel MWO could really benefit from: Arcade and Realism (actually, I think there's a third in-between mode too, but I forget - I don't play it a lot). In the realism modes, it's very much a Flight Simulator first and foremost, and in Arcade while it's still sim-feeling it's much more approachable for newbies.

Imagine, if you will, MWO where you could elect to play pure Mech Simulator mode as well as Friendly Arcade Mode. The very thought of an MWO Simulator Mode makes me giddy.

Anyways, that's my derailment quota for the day =)

[GalaxyBluestar]

Solis Obscuri, on 14 February 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Jump jet turning and maneuvering is a trickier issue - partly because jump jets really aren't very good for "jumping" at the moment and there's only so much room to nerf them before they aren't worth the weight/crit penalties for using them. If anything, I wonder if JJ's should accelerate faster and more violently, be touchier to control, and fly farther, at the expense of a shorter burn-time and slower recharge rate. That would make them handier for getting to difficult locations, getting out of bad situations, or moving to flank, but a lot less useful for prolonged maneuvering or airborne sniping.

this^ more violent acceleration and hight means no more bunny hops behind cover, poptarts would be exposed in the air for too long and mechs can go back to jumping hundreds of meters like they were supposed to.

[SweetJackal]

GalaxyBluestar, on 15 February 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

this^ more violent acceleration and hight means no more bunny hops behind cover, poptarts would be exposed in the air for too long and mechs can go back to jumping hundreds of meters like they were supposed to.

To be fair, JJs as they are currently can really only be used to Poptart and JJ Twist. If there was one thing I would want from the table top was the heavy lateral and omnidirectional thrust that JJs gave.

Mind you, I'm all for not treating all JJ equally. You could use JJ Profiles to give far more maneuverability to some mechs and give more limited usage to others. As it stands, using JJs in a Light is turning yourself into a Clay Pigeon, an easy target to knock out of the air.

[GalaxyBluestar]

SuckyJack, on 15 February 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

To be fair, JJs as they are currently can really only be used to Poptart and JJ Twist. If there was one thing I would want from the table top was the heavy lateral and omnidirectional thrust that JJs gave.

Mind you, I'm all for not treating all JJ equally. You could use JJ Profiles to give far more maneuverability to some mechs and give more limited usage to others. As it stands, using JJs in a Light is turning yourself into a Clay Pigeon, an easy target to knock out of the air.

imangine that clay pigeon not being small and fast but being a slow hover airship awaiting holes. overcooked poptart nom nom nom.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 February 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

actually need to get into War Thunder. Looks fun.

It is fun. But, it ain't Mechwarrior.

[Sam Slade]

MavRCK, on 15 February 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Can Paul truly say that his QA team hasn't told him about: 1) balance 2) netcode 3) incline issues?

Will Paul step forward and take responsibility?

really mavrck? really?

and tell Nuke Weapon to post that JJ balance idea somewhere(where number and location really matter) it's a really good idea.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 February 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

nothing cheap to it, but it's your typical chaos incarnate twitch fest. No real tactics either.

If you play alone, sure there's no tactics it's like any pug play experience. And as usual team vs team will be different.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Fup said it.

The JJs are the problem. JJs should be choice, not a straight upgrade to every mech that can fit them. There should be an advantage to not mounting them etc. (therefore a reason to use a mech without JJs. Currently the only reason you would use a non-JJ mech is if that mech had much better hardpoints and perhaps hitboxes)

IMHO the correct idea to look for would be "hmm should i put JJs on my mech ? If i don't I get A. If i do get B." At this point in the game it's more like "If i don't put JJs on my mech i lose: mobility, survivability, fexiblilty, chances to use twice as much cover effectively as a mech without JJs and the ability to get shots off mid air"

[Victor Morson]

JJs, again, are the smallest part of this "problem." Ever notice nobody is flocking to Thunderbolts or Quickdraws?

It's the hardpoints and how alternate types of hard points are terribly nerfed.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Victor Morson, on 16 February 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

JJs, again, are the smallest part of this "problem." Ever notice nobody is flocking to Thunderbolts or Quickdraws?

It's the hardpoints and how alternate types of hard points are terribly nerfed.

True, JJs are far from being the only balance problem, however, this thread was originally about proposed nerfs to the highlander (and victor). The only balance problems with these mechs are the problems inherent to JJs, IMHO

Of course there are other problems with designs like the TB or QD and the game in general. Namely ballistic vs. energy balance and stuff like that. But those aren't problems that are specific to the victor and highlander nor are they what put them in such a dominating position, because there are other mech that have similar hardpoints, but simply lack the JJs to keep up.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

There isn't "one problem".

It's mech scaling, it's jump jets, it's hard points, it's weapons, pinpoint convergence, the heat system...it's 50 things that added together exacerbate problems immensely.

Except as far as I can tell Smith and Tinker created this game, and PGI doesn't know what to do to balance it.

[MavRCK]

Marmon Rzohr, on 16 February 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

True, JJs are far from being the only balance problem, however, this thread was originally about proposed nerfs to the highlander (and victor). The only balance problems with these mechs are the problems inherent to JJs, IMHO

Of course there are other problems with designs like the TB or QD and the game in general. Namely ballistic vs. energy balance and stuff like that. But those aren't problems that are specific to the victor and highlander nor are they what put them in such a dominating position, because there are other mech that have similar hardpoints, but simply lack the JJs to keep up.

That's the whole point of what Victor and many of us are saying..

The PGI team can't see the tree from the forest...

JJs are a small part of the problem... The movement system is BROKEN...

This makes alternative mechs with (or without JJ) are IMBALANCED aka CRAP - TERRIBLE - NEXT-TO-USELESS...

*facepalm*

I'm going back to simpler things like studying about cutting people's chests open and sewing up their hearts while my girlfriend distracts me. Discussing and talking about balancing in MWO is becoming way too complicated for me.. lolz!

Edited by MavRCK, 16 February 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Thanatos676]

MavRCK, on 16 February 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

That's the whole point of what Victor and many of us are saying..

Paul can't see the tree from the forest...

JJs are a small part of the problem... The movement system is BROKEN...

This makes alternative mechs with (or without JJ) are IMBALANCED aka CRAP - TERRIBLE - NEXT-TO-USELESS...

*facepalm*

I'm going back to simpler things like cutting people's chests open and sewing up their hearts. Balancing in MWO is way too complicated for me.. lolzzz

Are you a serial killer?

[East Indy]

Yeah, guys, it's just not a mystery as to what's wrong.

If you enter a match in which no one is running a pinpoint-alpha loadout, and average weight is between 50 and 60, the game changes immensely for the better.

[MustrumRidcully]

Victor Morson, on 16 February 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

JJs, again, are the smallest part of this "problem." Ever notice nobody is flocking to Thunderbolts or Quickdraws?

It's the hardpoints and how alternate types of hard points are terribly nerfed.

I am not sure if it's the smallest problem. But I agree it's not the only one.

Laserboats need to be just as viable (but not more) than ballistic boats, missile boats and mixes of ballistics and lasers or missiles. They aren't.



Convergence. Jump Jets. Heat System. Pinpoint vs Damage over Time... So many things... Some aspects could be improced already with a few tweaks to the weaponstats.xml... Others require more. But for how long are we talking about this stuff?

I suppose the question is synonymous with "How long since Close Beta?"


Speaking of Closed Beta and Titan Fall: The graphics I've seen from Titan Fall remind me a bit of the CB of MW:O - back when we didn't get ugly film grain and stuff like that. Unfortuantely, Titan Fall is not a mech game. I mean, yeah, you can drive a mech, occasionally, but it looks more like a side dish, not the main course.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 16 February 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[SweetJackal]

To be fair, Titan Fall is more about Combined Arms between the Mechs and Infantry and mixes AI and human players to get the scale right.
Downsides to it, the Mechs are pretty disposable as you'll likely call in several during a match. Infantry can be a real serious threat to mechs. This might not be something that hardcore BT fans would like.

Personally I'd play the bloody hell out of it but EA is still forcing Origin down our throats and that will not work at all on my PC. Frankly I don't want it on my PC either, making an Origin Account to play I can deal with but needing another entire media platform that offers me -nothing- just to play their game?

Origin free versions of that game would have me jumping ship.

[Victor Morson]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 16 February 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Except as far as I can tell Smith and Tinker created this game, and PGI doesn't know what to do to balance it.

Plus on top of that, they refuse to listen to anyone thinking they know best in the face of 90% disapproval rates.

EDIT: Also I suspect the base was written as a near-port of Living Legends and taken from there, not S&T. PGI was given all the code for that.

Edited by Victor Morson, 16 February 2014 - 02:05 PM.