50 replies to this topic

[AC]

The other thing that PGI doesn't understand is that free players make your game more vibrant and alive for your paying players. It gets boring to face the same people over and over, or to wait for a game for 5 minutes.

You let free players play for free because they enhance the game for the paying ones.... Stop doing this and paying players start leaving because the game seems dead. That is the stage we are in now, in case people haven't noticed.

Edited by AC, 06 February 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[Pestilens]

Nick Makiaveli, on 06 February 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Yea those sorry ************* trying to make some money!!1 They should just give this game away and live on welfare!!!!

Did you even read my whole comment? I am not at all against paying for things I've dropped about 45 bucks so far and have been playing for only a month or so. There's gobs of stuff that I am willing to spend MC on but I don't like feeling forced to for every banal little purchase.

[Sandpit]

AC, on 06 February 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

The other thing that PGI doesn't understand is that free players make your game more vibrant and alive for your paying players. It gets boring to face the same people over and over, or to wait for a game for 5 minutes.

You let free players play for free because they enhance the game for the paying ones.... Stop doing this and paying players start leaving because the game seems dead. That is the stage we are in now, in case people haven't noticed.

I agree completely

That doesn't mean you hand things out easily though. The easier it is to get something the less it's appreciated. I don't care if that's buying a new car or playing a game. People like a challenge. (Well except that 10% that enjoys putting in the god mode code on day 1 of playing a new game)

[FactorlanP]

My personal opinion is that they cut c-bills back too far.

I believe that they did it because they are wanting more folks to buy Premium Time.

I believe that they made a critical error though... In a F2P game, it's the micro transactions that are important. Those really small sales. The kind of sale that a player thinks, "Heck it's on $2, that's not even a cup of coffee. I can buy it."

It has to be something that everyone will want.

Mech Bays fit the bill perfectly. Get that first micro transaction... Break the ice... A few dollars for a Mech Bay today... That Hula Girl doesn't cost much, buy her tomorrow... Heck, some Premium Time is only a bit more... You get the idea...

Problem is, C-bills are so hard to come by that players aren't buying very many mechs anymore. It takes forever to save the C-bills needed for the chassis and all of the upgrades required for the mech to be useful.

I honestly think that PGI would be better off bumping up the C-bill earning rate, so more Mech Bays are needed.

More basic micro transactions to loosen up the wallets.

If you need C-bill sinks, that's what all those fancy new modules can do. Plus, all kinds of possible C-bill sinks when Community Warfare is introduced.

[Viges]

xMEPHISTOx, on 06 February 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

Agreed. But I guess it depends on your perspective to be honost.

I agree completely. But I dont know any other f2p game where this aspect is even better. TBH I think that some people (a lot of them on the game forums) are just whiners and whine with no rational reason - kids in one word.

[Nick Makiaveli]

SirLANsalot, on 06 February 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

been like this since 12v12, PGI in its infinite wisdom, thought that with more mehcs on the field you would be making more money. However damage numbers have been the same as 8v8, even with 4 more mechs on both sides. Numbers need to be reverted back to 8v8 values, people would be happy.

Mycrus, on 06 February 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

I would play the game more with a different reward system

First I used these two posts simply because they were there, and are examples I can use.

Proof? That the game would be better, and you would play more? Any evidence that others would do the same? Other than your anecdotal personal experience that is?

Any evidence that, even if you guys did play more etc., that even more wouldn't leave due to having bought everything there is and are now bored?

Oh and as to being happy, we all know people would immediately start whining for more XP, and some would say the C-bills are still coming too slowly, as they have to engage in X (which is a third of the Y matches you guys are fussing about) and it would start all over again.

Note: the below is just my way of putting things based on my experience in the world. Not an insult, just an analogy.
You see, unless you are an expert of the subject, you are no different from a child petitioning his parents for that ONE THING that will lead to eternal bliss. You think that more C-bills will make this game great etc, but you are neglecting to consider PGI and the long term health of this game. See you can have fun, get bored and walk away and read about the game collapsing in the news and that's that. Maybe a bit of arrogant gloating, but you didn't lose your job. Your dream to build an awesome game wasn't flushed down the toilet because you listened to the Great Unwashed Intarwebz Masses.....

[Lil Cthulhu]

Viges, on 06 February 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

Yea OP tell that to the people that want R&R back.

As long as both threads are up - I think income is balanced.

Outside of the fact that the only people that want R&R back either have more money than sense or are just screaming for IMMERSION without understanding the other circumstances that would have to be met for this to be even remotely feasible.

Case and point, unless I can chose (not even chose, just know beforehand) where I'm going to drop and therefore be able to maximize the potential of whatever mech I chose to be piloting (you know, like in the 'reality' of whatever universe you want to call it) then R&R has no place whatsoever. It would be exactly like it was before, a stupid, poorly thought out mechanic that drove more people away than it brought in.

Edited by Lil Cthulhu, 07 February 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[Mycrus]

Nick Makiaveli, on 07 February 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

First I used these two posts simply because they were there, and are examples I can use.

Proof? That the game would be better, and you would play more? Any evidence that others would do the same? Other than your anecdotal personal experience that is?

Any evidence that, even if you guys did play more etc., that even more wouldn't leave due to having bought everything there is and are now bored?

Oh and as to being happy, we all know people would immediately start whining for more XP, and some would say the C-bills are still coming too slowly, as they have to engage in X (which is a third of the Y matches you guys are fussing about) and it would start all over again.

Note: the below is just my way of putting things based on my experience in the world. Not an insult, just an analogy.
You see, unless you are an expert of the subject, you are no different from a child petitioning his parents for that ONE THING that will lead to eternal bliss. You think that more C-bills will make this game great etc, but you are neglecting to consider PGI and the long term health of this game. See you can have fun, get bored and walk away and read about the game collapsing in the news and that's that. Maybe a bit of arrogant gloating, but you didn't lose your job. Your dream to build an awesome game wasn't flushed down the toilet because you listened to the Great Unwashed Intarwebz Masses.....

[Satan n stuff]

SirLANsalot, on 06 February 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

been like this since 12v12, PGI in its infinite wisdom, thought that with more mehcs on the field you would be making more money. However damage numbers have been the same as 8v8, even with 4 more mechs on both sides.

Numbers need to be reverted back to 8v8 values, people would be happy.

They probably figured that with 50% more targets to shoot at people would be earning 50% more. What they failed to take into account is that there's also 50% more people shooting at said targets.You probably do get more assists now, but that makes up only a small fraction of your income. We do have some more cbill rewards than we did before 12 vs 12, but that's still not enough to make up the difference.

[Roadkill]

Tycho von Gagern, on 06 February 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

It's these "Pokemon" players, the one's trying to "catch them all," that are PGI's bread n butter. I've spent money on MWO; but only after careful consideration (both of what I want and how I want to show my appreciation for PGI and support the game). If you can't stand to play another mission without your new toy, even though you were going to play those missions anyway, just buy some MC.

Problem solved.

It's not that simple.

I like to collect Mechs. I don't collect all of them, but I do get a lot of them. (48 currently.) Once I get a Mech, I like to level it up so that all of the efficiencies are unlocked. Not much point having a Mech in the garage if it isn't fully functional, and at least to me those Elite efficiencies (and arguably even the Master module slot) are needed to be fully functional.

I did the math in another thread, so this is just a summary off the top of my head. But what it amounted to was that even though I bought the Phoenix Overlord pack, I wasn't going to be able to earn back the money I spent merely upgrading those Mechs while I leveled them up. I was going to get them to Master 1/1 and still have less c-bills than I had when I started. And that was assuming that I'd be using Premium time while leveling up the Mechs. The problem is significantly worse if I try to buy the Mech with c-bills, or try to level it up without Premium time.

Generally, by the time I've leveled up a Mech, there's some new Mech available that I want to try. So for PGI to be making max $$$ off of me, they need to have the economy set up so that once I've leveled up a Mech I have sufficient c-bills to outfit the next one. If that's not the case - and it isn't right now - then PGI loses money because I keep grinding away at the "old" Mech to earn more c-bills before I can afford the new one. Eventually I have to skip a Mech because I can't keep up.

PGI is much better off if I can buy and outfit each Mech as it comes out. But as things stand right now, I can't even outfit the Mechs as they are introduced, let alone buy them too.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The economy is the game's paywall, all F2P games have one.

I think PGI originally counted on making a system with a better risk-reward style system. They were counting on repair/re-arm being implemented when they came up with the economy they are using.

You win or take little damage, you earn a good amount of C-bills, you loose or get destoryed, you get close to break even. If you get destroyed while equipped with an XL engine, Endo or Ferro, or if you are a heavy ammo build, you could end up loosing your butt when it comes to C-bills.

Because of this, if you had a Hero mech, that mech's booster would mean that if you lost or were destroyed, you could still earn some descent money (just not great), but if you won and suffered very little damage, you could reap huge rewards.

If you wanted this benefit on all your mechs instead of Hero mechs, there was premium time.

Without the repair/re-arm, they made the match C-bill rewards far less because they couldn't count on player performance to dictate rewards anymore. Now, everyone earns less because there isn't any C-bill spending on repairing and rearming mechs.

Now I am not advocating the old repair/re-arm system. It was unfair to PUGs and new players. It had huge problems that made it EXTREMELY frustrating to play under and emphasized how much of a paywall the economy really was.

Anyway, now we have an economy that is stringent, still frustrating, and doesn't really punish bad players and PUGs, but doesn't really feel like it rewards good play and team efforts.

It hurts premium time sales because although premium time helps, you will never really loose money anymore so it doesn't quite act like an insurance policy. Also, the C-Bill rewards are so small, it doesn't really boost it much either.

Overall I think the old system (repair/re-arm) was oppresive to anyone who either plays for free or doesn't play as well, but at the same time, the C-bill balance we have now is so stringent, that boosters don't help THAT much and rewards for excellent matches are not nearly enough.

Sorry for the long post, but it is just my way of expressing my belief that the C-bill economy system is operating without a planned in mechanic (repair/re-arm) that was poorly implemented to begin with, and its removal has created a still poor rewards system that continues to frustrate some players even to this day.

Yea...it's a mess.

[MungFuSensei]

I find that once you have one build that you like, focus on mastering it. By the time you have enough XP to master that mech, you will have a fat sack of leftover C-bills.

Think of the goal as gaining XP, instead of gaining C-bills. The grind doesn't exist if you're just playing the game. I get around 2 million CB a day. Approximately 3 hours of playtime. If they were all wins, I'd probably have closer to 3 million a day. A million CB/hour. Once you put it in those terms, it doesn't seem so much of a grind.

Of course, I'm the kind of person playing a 90kph light with an LB10x strapped to it, so maybe my view of things is odd.

[AC]

Satan n stuff, on 07 February 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

They probably figured that with 50% more targets to shoot at people would be earning 50% more. What they failed to take into account is that there's also 50% more people shooting at said targets.You probably do get more assists now, but that makes up only a small fraction of your income. We do have some more cbill rewards than we did before 12 vs 12, but that's still not enough to make up the difference.

I ran around with a locus in a few games in an attempt to shoot everyone once just to see what would happen. Failed the first few tries, but managed one game where I shot everyone once and my team won. The payout was dismal. PGI's logic is incredibly flawed. Yes, there are more targets on the field, but there are also more people flighting over kills, component destructions, and damage. On top of that, scouting and capping are not rewarded like they should be.

[Roadkill]

MungFuSensei, on 07 February 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I find that once you have one build that you like, focus on mastering it. By the time you have enough XP to master that mech, you will have a fat sack of leftover C-bills.

Think of the goal as gaining XP, instead of gaining C-bills. The grind doesn't exist if you're just playing the game. I get around 2 million CB a day. Approximately 3 hours of playtime. If they were all wins, I'd probably have closer to 3 million a day. A million CB/hour. Once you put it in those terms, it doesn't seem so much of a grind.

1 million c-bills/hours is at least double the actual average earnings rate.

PGI has allegedly stated that average earnings are 79k per match without any bonuses.

Play styles differ, but if you're actually surviving and supporting your teammates you'll be lucky to get in 6 matches per hour.

That's 474k per hour.

If you're bringing in 2 million in 3 hours, you're probably exiting the game immediately upon death, switching Mechs, and dropping PUG into a new game. Slightly above average earnings and 8 matches per hour will get you there.

I've found that their stated average is pretty accurate, though, if I'm a slightly above average player. I'm usually in the 85-90k range on average, not counting bonuses for Mech or Premium time. I play with friends, though, so our average matches/hour drops since we have to wait for each other. I'm usually in the 500k/hour range.

At that rate, you don't have a "fat sack of c-bills" leftover after you master a Mech. In fact, you probably haven't even earned back what you spent on it. So then you have to keep grinding away until you do make back the c-bills before you can buy your next Mech.

[Roadbeer]

Roadkill, on 07 February 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

If you're bringing in 2 million in 3 hours, you're probably exiting the game immediately upon death, switching Mechs, and dropping PUG into a new game. Slightly above average earnings and 8 matches per hour will get you there.

I do 1mil/hour ALL DAY LONG.
It's the unholy combination of Premium TIme and Premades. I know, I'm evil.

[FactorlanP]

Roadbeer, on 07 February 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

I do 1mil/hour ALL DAY LONG.
It's the unholy combination of Premium TIme and Premades. I know, I'm evil.

Careful there... That seems to be you admitting that being in a premade improves your chance to win...

[Sandpit]

Roadbeer, on 07 February 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

I do 1mil/hour ALL DAY LONG.
It's the unholy combination of Premium TIme and Premades. I know, I'm evil.

I do it WITHOUT premium time you scrub

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mycrus, on 07 February 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Us regulars know you wouldn't understand it anyway, so no need to let us know you didn't read it. BTW, if you just want to inflate your post count, K-Town is thata way --->

[Roadbeer]

Nick Makiaveli, on 07 February 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Us regulars know you wouldn't understand it anyway, so no need to let us know you didn't read it. BTW, if you just want to inflate your post count, K-Town is thata way --->

K Town posts don't record on the regular post count, only the count on your profile.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Roadbeer, on 07 February 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

K Town posts don't record on the regular post count, only the count on your profile.

Well I was mostly just being a smartass....have never actually posted there, and think I only went there once, and backed away slowly.....