139 replies to this topic

[Szegedin]

My 7F's leg was TK'd by one of my turrets in Crimson.

I was the last man and face hugging some stick of a hunchback that was capping our base while our LRM turret was happily pitching missiles at us. My leg gave up at the first salvo I was party to, before I could fully process this new experience.

His friends showed up and that was that.

I was dead anyway, but kinda amusing.

Edited by Szegedin, 10 February 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Dimento Graven, on 07 February 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

2. Get one semi-decent long range equipped (ERPPC/PPC, ERLL, AC) 'mech of any other size.

The strategy in MW4, usually Lt Gauss/AC2 (1100m)

[Void Angel]

If you're killing people solo with LRMs, it's because they're unskilled scrub monkeys, or they can't get past your team to deal with you - Alpine Peaks is still one of the easiest maps to use LRMs, because of the huge open areas, and people often display no clue as to how to use what cover is available. Particularly recently, with the meta punishing brawlers in PuG play.

[Unnatural Growth]

Dimento,

Man, I gotta say, I agree with everything you've said here about assault mode and turrets et al. I'd drop with you anytime. I stay out of the LRM debate as I don't really use them much other than secondary weapons to keep enemy mechs hiding in cover while my team covers ground, and I don't own a single missile boat.

I may actually give Assault mode a try once they implement turrets on all maps. I have been happily playing skirmish since it was released.

About the only thing the crying cappers have said that I agree with is there does need to be more rewards for lights.

Absolutely this!

More for scouting, providing ECM escort (if so equipped), and yes (Gawd) capping. The light rewards are a joke and have been since I started playing anyway. I started playing as a light mech. I even tried capping at first (sorry, but I did), the rewards suck. So I switched to harasser mode, and actually HAD A BLAST!

I feel so very sorry for all the cap warriors that actually have it stuck in their heads that "capping" is the ONLY thing lights can do. I see that a lot in these cap/no cap threads. You really don't get how much of the game you are cheating yourselves out of! You are missing out on a serious adrenaline rush guys. I'm talking hand shaking, voice cracking, have to sit and breathe when the match is over rush here. To just "skillfully" pilot your mech into a square on a match and sit there is such a total crap way to spend your match,


I really don't get the ones that do it. How utterly boring. I'm telling you fellow light pilots, drink like 6 Red Bulls and 4 Mountain Dews and try actually PILOTING that mech! They are fun, fast, twitchy, and an utter blast when that heavy or assault is ripping the hairs off his own head in frustration because he can't hit you! It's a jet-fueled E ticket ride man, make the most of it!


AND BY THE WAY, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF LIGHT MECHS PLAYING SKIRMISH!


The whole implementation of base capping as it is currently in Assault mode is stone cold stupid, like down to the molecular level stupid.

Ok, so here you are in your little Raven/Jenner/Locust(!), and you're sitting on that enemy base and you're just capping away. And some magic out of immersion timer counts to zero, and YOU'RE SAFE?! What a beaker full of B.S. that is. Because, I've got news for you, realistically, you know that enemy force you blew around to sneak on base? Yeah, they're coming for you man. And they are bringing a butt whopin' with them when they get there! And some how, you're magically safe? Yeah right. Wouldn't happen.

Now alter that ending scenario a bit. Say, at the end of the timer, your dropship lands at the base you just "capped" (lets say you secured the landing zone instead of "cap"), and say, oh, I don't know, it's a Fortress class drop ship that unloads 12 heavy or assault mechs that are able to wipe out the remaining forces with fire support from the drop ship.

What I'm saying is make it believable. Make it in game immersion content.

I think fighting turrets add to that immersion.

A "Magic Box" that you just park your azz in is just completely ********.

Or you should at least have to hold that cap until the game runs out if any enemy mechs are still alive. I know, I prefer the drop ship scenario more.

And it's always the cappers that say "defend your base!" But, they're the cappers?? Where are THEIR base defenders? Oh, that's right, they don't have any either.

[ShinVector]

Dimento Graven, on 10 February 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

The only other weapon I've done as well with? LRMs, and in that match I didn't even have to show myself once.

Nope. I've got people I've been playing with since closed beta that refuse to use them because of the issues with them. These are people who have been playing for TWO YEARS, who can rack up 5 kills per match with ML's and a bad attitude.

Off topic but this have to agreed with that we exist ! LOL! Direct fire weapons for the win !
I make it a point to destroy every Super LRM boat I see and make them think twice about bringing only LRMs.

I have now just realised that I have never fired an LRM20 since stats was implemented.

Edited: Typos.

Edited by ShinVector, 10 February 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Slepnir]

Turrets-like them, really makes assault feel more assault, downside-to many turrets, they can see through ECM which they shouldn't(LRMS), the hit location needs to be more random, I should not get hit in the same location every single time while maneuvering by the laser turrets.

[rolly]

Holy waaaay of topic Batman. Are we talking about turrets or LRM boats here? Just sayin' folks. I appear to be in the wrong conference room, or someone got the room labels mixed up...

Edited by rolly, 11 February 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[topgun505]

I don't mind them except it permits situations like the following:

River city. Tail end of the engagement. Opposing team has 3 assault mechs in good shape. My team is me in a cored CDA and another medium. Suddenly the other team breaks contact and sits back in their turret area.

So my team is losing. Can't sit back and wait. The fight will be very hard as it is but now having to take on the turrets as well makes it an impossible fight. With only a few minutes left in the game there is no way we can take out all the turrets and still have enough time left to attempt to kill the remaining units.

So. In effect the turrets were the final nail in the coffin to make a no-win scenario.

[Ngamok]

Gladewolf, on 09 February 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

Well...then I guess you had better destroy them

I killed a few yesterday on River City. 50 XP per one destroyed.

[Almond Brown]

topgun505, on 12 February 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

I don't mind them except it permits situations like the following:

River city. Tail end of the engagement. Opposing team has 3 assault mechs in good shape. My team is me in a cored CDA and another medium. Suddenly the other team breaks contact and sits back in their turret area.

So my team is losing. Can't sit back and wait. The fight will be very hard as it is but now having to take on the turrets as well makes it an impossible fight. With only a few minutes left in the game there is no way we can take out all the turrets and still have enough time left to attempt to kill the remaining units.

So. In effect the turrets were the final nail in the coffin to make a no-win scenario.

I guess they have added yet another scenario a Team must take into account. Do you think that some Arty or Air might have helped soften up those fat slugs as they sat on their base?

[topgun505]

They were falling back into the buildings so no line of sight and the buildings would have blocked many of the rounds anyway and in any case I had used mine by that point.

[Gramash]

So up front I am a light pilot. I will try to win by cap or kills depending on what the situation is.

From what I have read people are saying "with turrets it can become too defensive" when before a lance on base defence would have gone a long way to prevent fast capping teams in the first place. We in the community are caught in a swing of one extreme or another at the moment.

My issue is typified well by a few matches I recently played. I have played a few turret matches on Canyon Network. The turrets on this map cut off about 1/3rd of the map from scouting or flanking options for lights, so that we are either stuck in a trench or exposed to missiles (if the enemy didn't come down my trench), let alone actually capping (which encourages everyone to just ball up anyway). The missiles might not hit me but they give my position away as a scout. Further, if my team gets beasted (which happens sometimes) I can't go and cap or draw the enemy out to pick them off one by one because my mobility is extremely limited on that map to begin with, and even more so by various turrets.

I know heavy and assault pilots are crying tears for your lighter counterparts, but this is kind of impacting game play for us lone or paired lights (escpecially when pugging) on some maps. I'm not crying that they need to be removed fully, but maybe on some maps they can be toned down to laser only, or something that doesn't so severely restrict flanking, sneaky tagging, or simple scouting. I'm fine with turrets on city maps where we can dodge or hide and still be annoying/useful, but when we are so hampered as to be support mechs running with a ball there are problems.

[Foxfire]

My thoughts are:

Too much health.

Too many turrets for small maps.

The issue I see is that turrets are supposed to slow down ninja caps... but they are actually influencing the results of games in which they are getting involved. 150 health per turret is too much and they are too accurate.

They really should give a warning when detecting an enemy, have 50 health, and not hone in automatically on the weakest component of a mech..(not to mention they shouldnt report anything with ECM).

[Ngamok]

Gramash, on 08 March 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

So up front I am a light pilot. I will try to win by cap or kills depending on what the situation is.

From what I have read people are saying "with turrets it can become too defensive" when before a lance on base defence would have gone a long way to prevent fast capping teams in the first place. We in the community are caught in a swing of one extreme or another at the moment.

My issue is typified well by a few matches I recently played. I have played a few turret matches on Canyon Network. The turrets on this map cut off about 1/3rd of the map from scouting or flanking options for lights, so that we are either stuck in a trench or exposed to missiles (if the enemy didn't come down my trench), let alone actually capping (which encourages everyone to just ball up anyway). The missiles might not hit me but they give my position away as a scout. Further, if my team gets beasted (which happens sometimes) I can't go and cap or draw the enemy out to pick them off one by one because my mobility is extremely limited on that map to begin with, and even more so by various turrets.

I know heavy and assault pilots are crying tears for your lighter counterparts, but this is kind of impacting game play for us lone or paired lights (escpecially when pugging) on some maps. I'm not crying that they need to be removed fully, but maybe on some maps they can be toned down to laser only, or something that doesn't so severely restrict flanking, sneaky tagging, or simple scouting. I'm fine with turrets on city maps where we can dodge or hide and still be annoying/useful, but when we are so hampered as to be support mechs running with a ball there are problems.

You post has merit. On smaller maps they should be down to 4 instead of 6 turrets. Also, I'd say lets reduce the HP from 150 to 120 and see what happens as well.

[Quaamik]

Bhael Fire said: think with Skirmish being introduced the importance of fighting in Assault should be diminished; that is, the overall goal should be to capture the other team's base (instead of fighting in the center of the map until one side is dead).

So basically, these should be the objectives for each mode to keep them distinct from being only variations of TDM:

Skirmish = Destroy the other team
Assault = Capture the other team's base
Conquest = Tug of War
Attack/Defend = Team A attacks, Team B defends

I think too many player still think of Assault as a death match, when the overall goal is to "assault" the other team's base, while at the same time defending your own.

But with the reward system being what it is, no wonder there's so many conflicting ideas on what the overall goal of each mode is. Adding turrets to Assault only exacerbates the situation.


If you make Assault rely on "capture the base" you will wind up with three common results: 1) One team killed off, then other captures the base. 2) One team killed off, but the other is too weak to kill the turrets - game times out. 3) One team killed off, but game times out before the other can capture. Actual base captures would still be rare, but most Assault games would end n a tie - making them worthless.

Assault should be a contest over unclaimed or neutral ground. Turrets, if few and weak, should be to slow capping - not discourage or prevent it.

Attack/Defend, assuming we ever get it, would be even worse with the current turrets. Could you imagine the uphill battle for the attacking team when the defenders have the support of these turrets and their sole goal is to defend the base? There would be NO reason to leave the base - not even to scout.

[Dimento Graven]

In my opinion, they're almost perfect.

What absolutely needs to be changed is: Turrets should NOT have long range weapons.

They should have small and medium lasers (pulse is fine), machine guns, flamers, SRMs and streaks.

No weapons beyond the range of an ML.

Their LRMs with insta-lock, see through ECM, see through EVERY f'ing thing, nah, that's just stupid.
You can tell PGI doesn't play this game much and most of the design decisions are made by people who haven't played much BattleTech, period.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Annoying.

Unnecessary.

Unneeded.

Unwanted.

[wanderer]

Dimento Graven, on 09 March 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Their LRMs with insta-lock, see through ECM, see through EVERY f'ing thing, nah, that's just stupid.
You can tell PGI doesn't play this game much and most of the design decisions are made by people who haven't played much BattleTech, period.

I want their ECM-proof LRMs, personally,

I've seen two games where turrets made a difference. One was on Manifold, where the last two 'Mechs hid behind the turrets and the other side (who had 3) were dumb enough to attack it with serious damage instead of doing a return-to-base themselves.

The turrets combined with an airstrike killed all three along with some quick sniping.

The second one was a 3-12 stomp in progress. The last three 'Mechs backed up into their own turrets.

It ended up a 7-12 loss, but the turrets crippled two of those kills. They're a significant source of static firepower, and people are going to learn that. Which is good.

On the other hand, I was on Artic and we ended up rolling back half of the enemy with a few losses...and they RTB'd. We ground our way through the turret/'Mech defenses and it was FUN, lost a few more 'Mechs but we won. If they'd lured us in sooner, they might have done considerably more damage despite being badly outmatched.

Oh, and if you don't like em? Don't play Assault. Seriously. I enjoy them. Target-rich environments with turrets that take just enough focus to allow someone to slip in and potshot while you're trying to de-turret something? Fun.

[Odins Fist]

I think turrets improve assault mode by a factor of a million thousand billion kajillion..!!!!

Odins Fist, on 09 March 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

One thing about assault, I never understood how some little guy in a mech standing in a square box was going to stop me from crushing it's face because it was standing in that square, and capped my base.

Fine you just captured my base, my Mech didn't explode or stop working, so how the "F" is capping supposed to stop 4 mechs from killing the last enemy mech on the map.?? Oh boy, he stood in a square and accomplished.. Nothing.??

What was the point in the first place, to see who could avoid combat the most..?? GTFO
I like the turrets, I think they are really SWELL..!!!!!!

Do you know how you actually capture a base or any kind of territory..??
You defeat your enemy in that area, you either force a surrender, or you destroy it's armed forces, that's how you capture something.
If I could stand in a square and claim Victory I would be standing in Red Square right now claiming Victory, and giving that POS Vlad Putin the finger. ROFLMAO, but that isn't how it works.

At least we don't have to deal with some kind of capture the flag game mode.

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 March 2014 - 01:00 PM.