261 replies to this topic

[Vanguard319]

Found this on Sarna:

Quote

• The Timber Wolf/Mad Cat as originally depicted in Technical Readout: 3050 differed slightly from that present in later editions such as Technical Readout: 3050 Revised; the differences are due to changes in the official rules on constructing BattleMechs. Under the original rules, elements of 'Mech construction such as the engine and internal structure could be rounded off to the quarter-ton; this was subsequently changed, with rounding limited to half-ton increments. The original Timber Wolf/Mad Cat mounted a 375 XL engine weighing 19.25 tons and had an Endo Steel internal structure weighing 3.75 tons. When the rule systems were revised, the weight of each component increased to 19.5 and 4 tons each respectively; to compensate for the increase in weight the available Pod Space was reduced to 27.5 tons. This necessitated the following changes to the depicted configurations:^[35][36]

• -Prime: A single ER Small Laser mounted in the left torso of the original Prime configuration was removed;
  
• -A: The number of Double Heat Sinks mounted in the left arm was reduced from 3 to 2, although the number in the right arm remained unchanged;
  
• -B: A single ER Small Laser mounted in the center torso was removed;
  
• -C: A single ER Small Laser mounted in the center torso was removed;
  
• -D: The amount of SRM ammunition carried in the left torso was reduced from two tons to one ton, and a single ER Small Laser was added to the center torso.

The construction rules changed at some point, and the mech's loadouts changed slightly to compensate for the changed tonnage.

[Vanguard319]

FireSlade, on 07 February 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

MW3 had it running at 81 kph so not really a surprise there, and I think that they are keeping the LRM 20 5 tons since there was no mention of changing it and something like that would break some builds so I assume (more like I would hope) that they would say something. I bet that was a typo since it does not show the right torso hardpoints. The speed is calculated with 16.2(375/75)=81kph so most likely not an error there. They probably did this to compensate for speed tweak allowing them to move too fast; 86.4*1.1 would equal a 95kph 75 ton mech that can dish out 85 damage alphas. With being able to purchase Omnipods (most likely their c-bill sink since you cannot change out the engine) JJs might be available on one of them that you can place on your mech so not going to fret over it yet. What I really want to know is what are they going to do about Hero mechs since the Clans rarely left stock configs.

As far as hero clan mechs, I can see the following as viable designs:

Aidan Pryde's Timberwolf (has jump jets)

Prometheus (Victor Steiner-Davion's Daishi)

Widowmaker (Natasha Kerensky's Dire Wolf)

Of course, they may also make unique, non canon heroes like some of the hero mechs we currently have.

[FireSlade]

Vanguard319, on 08 February 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

As far as hero clan mechs, I can see the following as viable designs:

Aidan Pryde's Timberwolf (has jump jets)

Prometheus (Victor Steiner-Davion's Daishi)

Widowmaker (Natasha Kerensky's Dire Wolf)

Of course, they may also make unique, non canon heroes like some of the hero mechs we currently have.

Daishi and Dire Wolf are one and the same and I was thinking along those same lines minus Victor's (I respect him but he is not a Clansman so has no right to be a Clan Hero) but these are few and PGI will probably make it up as they go. I still wish that we could hear more from them but since all of the pitch forks and torch brigades they have been playing things very close to the vest to minimize the risk of us revolting.

[Lukoi Banacek]

FireSlade, on 08 February 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Daishi and Dire Wolf are one and the same and I was thinking along those same lines minus Victor's (I respect him but he is not a Clansman so has no right to be a Clan Hero) but these are few and PGI will probably make it up as they go. I still wish that we could hear more from them but since all of the pitch forks and torch brigades they have been playing things very close to the vest to minimize the risk of us revolting.

I will not be surprised if Prometheus is made a Hero Mech.

[Nikkoru]

CyclonerM, on 07 February 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

The Timberwolf is not JJ capable. Only Aidan Pryde's custom one was.

Um, all omnimechs are jump capable. That's part of being an omnimech. Jump jets can be installed in pods like most anything else. PGI may ignore this, but they really shouldn't.

Edited by Nikkoru, 08 February 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[Cimarb]

Blue Shadow, on 08 February 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Thanks for the info and links! Your point 4 is one I'm very disappointed about, even though I've never gotten into the lore beyond what I've learnt on these forums I still wonted them to stay true to the IP as much as possible and make the Clans a unique play style, and a challenge to fight.....total missed opportunity by PGI.

Implementing an honor system through the game would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. You could have some sort of "team kill" penalty for shooting at more than one target, but you can't force people to have honor.

Even if they did implement something like that, most of the Clans quickly abandoned the practice themselves after they realized that the IS were capable of taking advantage of it. If you want to use Zellbriggen, the best way to do it is in 12-man drops with other Clan units.

[Thorn Hallis]

Blue Shadow, on 08 February 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Thanks for the info and links! Your point 4 is one I'm very disappointed about, even though I've never gotten into the lore beyond what I've learnt on these forums I still wonted them to stay true to the IP as much as possible and make the Clans a unique play style, and a challenge to fight.....total missed opportunity by PGI.

Even in the board game it was up to the player if he would follow the honor "rules" in a strict or liberal way. Guess what the average MWO player would chose.

[Stormwolf]

Vanguard319, on 08 February 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Found this on Sarna:



The construction rules changed at some point, and the mech's loadouts changed slightly to compensate for the changed tonnage.

I remember that, it ment that most of the older recordsheets were no longer considered legal. The MW2 series was released during this change, the T-Wolf there still has the original stats.

[FireSlade]

Lukoi, on 08 February 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

I will not be surprised if Prometheus is made a Hero Mech.

I really hope not especially when they have Natasha Kerensky's Widow Maker to chose from. That is like using a Davion hero for a Kuritan mech.

[Lukoi Banacek]

FireSlade, on 09 February 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

I really hope not especially when they have Natasha Kerensky's Widow Maker to chose from. That is like using a Davion hero for a Kuritan mech.

Opinions differ on this issue I am sure.

That being said, an interesting distinction and one that impacts PGI's bottom line (a much more important issue to them, than the sensitivities of the players overall, as they've routinely demonstrated already) would be to name the DW the Widowmaker and as the IS referred to it as a Daishi, issuing a second Hero (Flame/Fang-style) with Prometheus and purposefully tagging it Daishi.

Fact is.....whether we agree or not that it is a good way to go, it will not drive off players if they offer both. One or two may leave, but if you did not leave when they gave IS the equivalent of omnimechs, gave us 3pv and coolant flush when many argued against both, when they routinely confused/misled the community or when they forced ghost heat down everyone's throats (good luck to our new players out there who won't have the first clue what is going on with this und(er)ocumented mechanic) -- then you likely would not leave over a decision such as the above.

Something PGI counts on every time they make a "controversial" decision. It may be a nail, but it is not strong enough to hold down the coffin-lid, so I would not take it too hard to heart if they go this route.

I expect they will. VD was too integral to the novels (and MANY more novels were sold over game books...there are more people with frames of reference built on the novels than the TRO/gamebooks) for them to ignore an opportunity in my estimation.

[FireSlade]

Lukoi, on 09 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Opinions differ on this issue I am sure.

That being said, an interesting distinction and one that impacts PGI's bottom line (a much more important issue to them, than the sensitivities of the players overall, as they've routinely demonstrated already) would be to name the DW the Widowmaker and as the IS referred to it as a Daishi, issuing a second Hero (Flame/Fang-style) with Prometheus and purposefully tagging it Daishi.

Fact is.....whether we agree or not that it is a good way to go, it will not drive off players if they offer both. One or two may leave, but if you did not leave when they gave IS the equivalent of omnimechs, gave us 3pv and coolant flush when many argued against both, when they routinely confused/misled the community or when they forced ghost heat down everyone's throats (good luck to our new players out there who won't have the first clue what is going on with this und(er)ocumented mechanic) -- then you likely would not leave over a decision such as the above.

Something PGI counts on every time they make a "controversial" decision. It may be a nail, but it is not strong enough to hold down the coffin-lid, so I would not take it too hard to heart if they go this route.

I expect they will. VD was too integral to the novels (and MANY more novels were sold over game books...there are more people with frames of reference built on the novels than the TRO/gamebooks) for them to ignore an opportunity in my estimation.

That would be a smart way to go and one that I would be okay with. What would tick me off is just offering the Prometheus without the Widow Maker. By going the dual route they can just about double their income, and placate most of the players. Problem is will they think of it and that they only did it once with the Dragon.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Trust me....I want a Widowmaker as much as the next guy! Preferably with a Natasha Kay dashmounted bobble, lol.

You might be right about whether or not it will occur to them....but when it comes to money making opportunities, I think they will figure it out for certain.

[Cimarb]

Lukoi, on 09 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Opinions differ on this issue I am sure.

That being said, an interesting distinction and one that impacts PGI's bottom line (a much more important issue to them, than the sensitivities of the players overall, as they've routinely demonstrated already) would be to name the DW the Widowmaker and as the IS referred to it as a Daishi, issuing a second Hero (Flame/Fang-style) with Prometheus and purposefully tagging it Daishi.

Fact is.....whether we agree or not that it is a good way to go, it will not drive off players if they offer both. One or two may leave, but if you did not leave when they gave IS the equivalent of omnimechs, gave us 3pv and coolant flush when many argued against both, when they routinely confused/misled the community or when they forced ghost heat down everyone's throats (good luck to our new players out there who won't have the first clue what is going on with this und(er)ocumented mechanic) -- then you likely would not leave over a decision such as the above.

Something PGI counts on every time they make a "controversial" decision. It may be a nail, but it is not strong enough to hold down the coffin-lid, so I would not take it too hard to heart if they go this route.

I expect they will. VD was too integral to the novels (and MANY more novels were sold over game books...there are more people with frames of reference built on the novels than the TRO/gamebooks) for them to ignore an opportunity in my estimation.

Victor's Victor is already a hero mech, so I would hope they would be a bit more creative about others.

EDIT: Ignore me, I obviously needed some sleep...

Edited by Cimarb, 09 February 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

I just thought of something. If the weapons and heat sinks on a Timber Wolf A take up 27.5 tons, and the Timber Wolf has 27.5 tons of pod space with the lower arm actuators installed, and having ERPPCs takes out the lower arm actuators, and the Timber Wolf A has 2 ERPPCs. Should that leave empty tonnage in the Timber wolf A? (And every other Omni Mech this rule applies to?)

Just a thought.

Edited by Nathan K, 09 February 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[Reno Blade]

Nathan K, on 09 February 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

I just thought of something. If the weapons and heat sinks on a Timber Wolf A take up 27.5 tons, and the Timber Wolf has 27.5 tons of pod space with the lower arm actuators installed, and having ERPPCs takes out the lower arm actuators, and the Timber Wolf A has 2 ERPPCs. Should that leave empty tonnage in the Timber wolf A? (And every other Omni Mech this rule applies to?)

Just a thought.

Nope, actuators don't need extra tonnage, but it gives you the slot, if its gone

[Uncle Totty]

Reno Blade, on 09 February 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Nope, actuators don't need extra tonnage, but it gives you the slot, if its gone

So, lower arm actuators weigh nothing?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Cimarb, on 09 February 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Victor's Victor is already a hero mech, so I would hope they would be a bit more creative about others.

Which Hero mech is that? PGI is not selling anything with his name or reference to him. the Victor was created hundreds of years before his birth, so it's not like it was named after him.

The Dragonslayer is not a reference to Victor Davion either. His personal Victor is not one of particularly interesting build regardless.

I am not advocating that PGI go one way or the other on this, but I am saying, given their track record, I will not be surprised at all if they elect to cash in with a Daishi AND DW hero mech given the lore of the BT universe and their trends in decision making.

As for them being creative....they seem to be more adept at making mechs out of whole cloth or barely there references over existing "hero" Mechs more than anything.

[Strum Wealh]

Cimarb, on 09 February 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Victor's Victor is already a hero mech, so I would hope they would be a bit more creative about others.

Actually, the Dragon Slayer is Ardan Sortek's Victor (see this post)...

So, yeah... Prometheus for Hero Daishi & Bounty Hunter for Hero Mad Cat!

[CyclonerM]

Nathan K, on 09 February 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

So, lower arm actuators weigh nothing?

I suppose they are considered part of the 'Mech structure, like cockpit, leg actuators etc. Part of the "muscular" structure of the 'Mech. Oh well either way it has no weight...

Then..

What if it is so light it is not considered?

[Uncle Totty]

CyclonerM, on 09 February 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

I suppose they are considered part of the 'Mech structure, like cockpit, leg actuators etc. Part of the "muscular" structure of the 'Mech. Oh well either way it has no weight...

Then..

What if it is so light it is not considered?

A cockpit weighs 3 tons. (I find it funny how actuators weigh nothing though.)