64 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

A heavy with 4 medium lasers and an AC 5 will do nothing more than tickle you to death. Anyone running an Orion needs to consider some serious ballistic firepower to remain a presence on the battlefield. If a Light gets passed you they will tear your rear armour off. You need to make anyone foolish enough to face you pay in a fraction of a second for their mistake.

For the Orion K, consider 4 medium lasers and an AC20 with streaks and ONE ton of ammo - those streaks are for Lights only afterall. Also do not forget endo steel internals. Ammo in head and legs, with maxed leg armour anyone wasting time on them instead of your ballistic hardpoint is a chump and a blessing.


[got to love how this website absolutely FAIIILLLSSS!! on a mobile device]

Edited by RickySpanish, 13 February 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Modo44]

RickySpanish, on 13 February 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

A heavy with 4 medium lasers and an AC 5 will do nothing more than tickle you to death.

This. You can put AC10+4xML on a Dragon ffs.

[Koniving]

Disagree with Ricky. That AC/20 draws attention; yes it's powerful but it screams "SHOOT ME GODDAMNIT FREAKING KILL ME I WANNA DIE!"

You carry that and you will die before the Atlas, Highlander, or Victor nearby you.

The streaks I carry to fight everything, because the rattling is what keeps you alive. They shake, they can't aim, they don't have pinpoint, you live, they die. The AC/5 pumps out 3 shots for every shot the AC/20 can churn out. (AC/5 pattern: 0, 1.5, 3.0, 4.5, 6, 7.5) (AC/20 pattern: 0, 4, 8) Since AC/20 synchs with your lasers once you fire one they get 4 seconds free to disarm your cannon before you can even react!

That's how you fry those meta suckers. Their inability to fire fast enough to do anything. Bring your AC/20. You might live long enough for me to laugh at you, but I don't think you'll last that long.

Rick's idea is to do 40 damage between the AC/20 and the 4 ML every 4 seconds. (0, 4, 8) He's easy to block, easy to dodge, and should he miss well that's 4 seconds he can't react.
I'm doing 15 damage from the AC/5, 20 damage from the 4 ML, + 20 from the streaks within that same 4 seconds. You can't block me, you can't dodge me, at best you can try and spread it.
Both rigs probably run about the same heat, but if his rig runs hot he cuts his firepower in half to 20. If I run hot, I'm still doing 35 damage.

In fairness, his build will instantly (or within 1 second due to lasers) do that 40 damage on the first shot for the first 4 second period. Good for popping out of cover and kill stealing. Good for instantly disarming enemies too. But you gotta be close to make those shots worth while. Every weapon system on Rick's concept optimizes at 270 meters and is pretty reduced beyond that. The cannon is 6 tons heavier; that comes from somewhere. Engine reduction? Loss of heatsinks? How much ammo can it carry? Will you run out quickly? Because my own build (more optimized than the one in the vid) has 2 tons for the AC and 3 tons for the streaks. That's 5 tons. Throwing out all the ammo I couldn't throw in that bigger gun without sacrificing something else.

Indeed, though, as Rick said you'd have to make them pay within a fraction of a second. Any longer and you'd have to wait 4 seconds to be able to do anything while being torn apart.

"If you lob your eggs in one basket, what will you do if it drops?"

Edited by Koniving, 13 February 2014 - 01:07 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 13 February 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

The streaks I carry to fight everything, because the rattling is what keeps you alive.

That's how my AC/4 Grid Iron has been able to get at least 1 kill a match - and 300 damage average

AC/2? crap weapon, lets shoot someo.... Shar Wolf has killed XXXX

Was using AC/5, but dropped to the 2s in favor of more ammo.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 13 February 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[Modo44]

Yes, fight assaults with streaks. 5 minutes to bring down a mech.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 13 February 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Yes, fight assaults with streaks. 5 minutes to bring down a mech.

Only if you group fire them - chain fire and the concentrate more centrally. Still takes a bit - but you are bringing them as much for the shake as the damage - esp now that shake actually throws aim off.

[Modo44]

There is no "concentrate", it just looks like that. The spread remains random, and the assault's alpha still blows you up in seconds.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 13 February 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

There is no "concentrate", it just looks like that. The spread remains random, and the assault's alpha still blows you up in seconds.

Not quite - it is still random yes - but the more you fire at once, the more areas are targetted at once.

Step into the testing grounds and fire at the Atlas - chain fire and group.
Group fire takes longer to kill the Atlas - and spreads the damage more.
When you group fire them, they all try to hit different areas - the more fired at once, the more areas get hit - the more spread the damage gets.

Exceptions exist of course, because they select parts at random, but unless you are firing enough SSRM to run out of parts to hit, they will all hit a different part with group fire.

[Koniving]

Modo44, on 13 February 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Yes, fight assaults with streaks. 5 minutes to bring down a mech.

Because MWO tries to repeat as few targets as possible, they will refuse to hit something that another streak has targeted until there's no longer any real choices left. Also, keep in mind the streaks aren't to bring down the mech. It's to impair the mech. If the enemy can't aim, it can't hit you and therefore it can't fight you.

Here's a good prime example of 5 streaks and 1 small pulse killing assault mechs with ease.

However, in the design the autocannon and lasers are doing the grunt work. The streaks disorient, cause explosions, smoke, blur the screen, rattle the crosshair, and on the receiving end of the experience you're in an Earthquake simulator.

With only a single shot every 4 seconds, try making it count then.

<--The receiving end.

Edited by Koniving, 13 February 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[Modo44]

The random selection makes your tests random. Do 100, then you will have statistic evidence.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 13 February 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

The random selection makes your tests random. Do 100, then you will have statistic evidence.

I have - streaks are one of my primary weapons. Forgive me for not providing said evidence, but I am still in the process of trying to set up my own Youtube account.

[Koniving]

All things aside though; it really depends on the pilot's preference. I prefer my rig because I will get in your face, tear you apart and when you're about to die I'll wave to you before ending your life. I also like being able to hit enemies at a distance even if I can't get up close to fight my way.

Others may prefer a more instant way to kill, assuming you can get in close enough to bring all your weapons to fruit.

Then there's still others who will instead pack in an all different style of weapons and never get near you as the prey to their builds.

Mine's built for survival against many targets at once while hammering in on the largest threat.
Rick's design wants to kill as instantly as possible but relies heavily on being able to hit when the enemy is already weak or on one versus one engagements.

Mine runs cold and has high damage output even when cutting the lasers out. The problem is 10 of that damage is spread by the streaks each firing cycle and so every 4 seconds I've had 20 damage spread out. Ideally though they're looking for weak spots in armor.
His has highly focused damage output, but that cuts in half if lasers are cut. None of it is wasted, unless the shot missed.
Both have their merits.

But if you were in a fight and had both of them coming at you as enemies, 100% of the time you will choose to kill Rick's Orion over mine. The number "20" draws attention. This is true for every player, they will go against the AC/20 before the other.

"Try to look unimportant. They may be low on ammo."

Edited by Koniving, 13 February 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 13 February 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

96% of the time you will choose to kill Rick's Orion over mine.

FTFY, exceptions to every rule and all that.

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 13 February 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

[/size]
FTFY, exceptions to every rule and all that.

True. For me between an AC/20 4 ML build and anything sporting an LB-10x that LB is going down first. I swear they're the bane of my existence. That and machine guns. Ever had ammo in your torso when there's 12 MGs pointed at you? Deadlier than the shotgun twin MG Dragon.

[990Dreams]

Brawling ON1-K
Designed for Medium and Short Ranged Brawls. Alternatively you can swap the SRM 6s for SRM 4s, and remove some of the ammo and use Pulse Lasers instead.

Hunting ON1-K
Primarily for Long and Medium Ranged engagements. You can use the SRMs and Lasers for defense and to finish a damaged enemy at close range.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 13 February 2014 - 02:11 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 13 February 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

That's how my AC/4 Grid Iron has been able to get at least 1 kill a match - and 300 damage average

It helps that the Grid Iron is at the very bottom of priority targets. I can say with all honesty that if I round a corner and I'm facing a Jag, Phract and Grid Iron with 2 AC/2s, I can tell you which one I'm not wasting shots on. heh

Actually this is also a key factor in the surprising survival rates of Dragons.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 February 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 13 February 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

It helps that the Grid Iron is at the very bottom of priority targets.

Normally yes - but I have been having conquest pop up a lot in the "Any" Que, and I tend to be one of the only ones around who will actually even try to cap (had one game where I was literally the only one on either side to even try to cap) so that isn't even always the cause.

I'm not sure when it popped up, but PGI slipped in something that causes the shake to throw the aim off even good pilots.
I have fought people 1 on 1 (due to bein the only ones near the cap point) and watched someone I knew could aim (even through the old shakes) have their weapons fly all around me and not hit. (even at one point had a LL from a Jester swing to either side of me)

[Koniving]

Victor Morson, on 13 February 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Actually this is also a key factor in the surprising survival rates of Dragons.

Exactly, the meta junkies all ignore non-meta mechs when meta threats are out there. It's the reason lots of things survive when they shouldn't.

[luxebo]

Victor Morson, on 13 February 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Actually this is also a key factor in the surprising survival rates of Dragons.

So true, agreed 100%. That's why when you end up seeing a Dragon with like 1k damage and 6 kills on your/their side, you know that Dragon has been ignored (and often happens in games; not only Dragons but anything not threatening enough.)

[Koniving]

Heavy Metal. LB-10x, AC/2, 2 streaks, 3 ML.

Spoiler

Kinda spent a fair bit of the match answering questions, too.

But yeah. So Ghostwalkin, what'd you decide on?