30 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 11 February 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

It's not a great Orion build in terms of being underwhelming, but he positively did not need that number of DHS in there.

The big reason I'm saying mine would be more durable is that the ammo is brought into the chest and it moves almost a full 10 kph faster than the 300 engine. That is where the Ferro weight is going to, and it makes a huge, huge difference for a build like this.

I think this would be completely subject to opinion. I don't always feel the need for a mech to run fast, and sometimes need to slow my mechs down for more heat control or weapon punch. I just think that, though FF can be good, it isn't helping this overall build out as much as just placing more DHS in would. (Plus, for all we know, he might already have the 300 engine, and can't/don't want to afford a larger engine. More information might be required here.)

Moving ammo to what is safe for the Chassis is a recommended idea. I just don't happen to know where would be safe for this particular chassis...

[Koniving]

Hannibal Barka, on 11 February 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

I noticed the artemis changed neither the SRMs, nor their ammo. Does it actually help?

It exploits a glitch in the game, but yes it does.

Personally I took your base design and saw two problems beyond the readily mentioned. It runs too hot, and you don't have anything low-heat to fall back on.

So here's what I did with it.

The MGs here aren't much but they are cold. The Streak ammo has been reduced but maintained as arm-mounted with lots more padding. This will make them less likely to explode. ER PPCs switched to standard might be better for temperatures. BAP and AMS added.

This is an older build of mine with the goal of being an LRM boat back when I was experimenting with it.

And this is what I'm running these days. AC/5 and AC/2 tied together completely disorients and rattles the enemy so that they can't focus their aim. Streaks keeps wearing them down. Medium lasers help the ACs tear through mechs.

Edited by Koniving, 11 February 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[xMintaka]

Victor Morson, on 11 February 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

I strongly endorse upping the firepower on that build. I only updated it while keeping the spirit of the original intact; I don't in anyway recommend an Orion with just 2 PPCs & 3 Streak/2s. Really I don't recommend any Orion running less than Ultras or an AC/20.

I completely agree with you here. All my Orion's have run AC5's at minimum. Not using the RT ballistic slot feels like blasphemy.

Obviously your suggestion is more in keeping with the OP's original build, but I really think he/she should seriously think about how important those 9kph are against the extra pinpoint damage. 70kph with a 25pt pinpoint Alpha is pretty damn good, as well as having the streaks to deal with the lights that will inevitably come sniffing for the "slow" heavy.

I'm biased, as I favour STD295/300 engines in my Orions, but if the OP has the spare c-bills, I'd recommend they try all the builds in this thread for at least 5 drops and see which works best for them.

Modo44, on 11 February 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

You can cram 19 DHS in there and be really cool. 14 DHS for dual ERPPC is just silly.

No matter how many DHS you use, two ERPPC's are too hot imo.

Fair enough, the OP might be very good at managing heat, but swap both of those ERPPC's to regular versions and you're only running 5 heat hotter than one ERPPC.

To my mind, ERPPC's are a solo weapon. You pair them with AC's, or use it as your primary weapon. Once you start using more than one, you may as well use 2 normal PPC's and buff up your situational awareness.

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 11 February 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

I think the unspoken truth is that "If you want to run PPCs with tons of DHS, you should probably buy a Battlemaster instead" here, heh

Get a nice XL 375-400, slap Endo+Ferro+XL in there and 4 PPCs and fire all day on a 2-2 pattern. If Ghost Heat ever dies this would even be a competitive setup.

Personally, I'd just do normal PPCs, the SSRMs and add in MGs: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2dec55e64e4e075

PPCs are for range, and run cooler than ER (but don't have that max range. Still very good range. Can be changed for ERLLs just as easily.) Anyone get close to you, use the SSRMs, which should still be in range for the MGs. MGs should also be taking advantage of any openings produced from the PPCs from range, or the SSRMs. Surprisingly, I've been finding my SSRMs seem to really do a lot of (too much?) damage to heavy mechs/assaults. I don't know why...

This is just me personally. I tend to try and avoid ERPPCs, as now they run so hot it's crazy! But, with enough sinks, they can still work fine.

[Modo44]

Lunatech, on 11 February 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

No matter how many DHS you use, two ERPPC's are too hot imo.

Yes, but at least you get some usage this way, to try the weapon out. With 14 DHS, it will be utterly useless. I do have a 23 DHS Awesome 8T which is just barely cool enough for this kind of idiocy.

[luxebo]

Also, keep in mind OP that you will need 3 Orions to complete mastering of that chassis. I generally suggest keeping all 3 different, and you may want one as a brawler, one as an lrm boat, and one as a different set-up brawler, maybe closer to yours with maybe 4 ssrms (VA I believe), couple LLs or PPCs (not ER), and maybe a lighter AC (max maybe Ultra AC5). Your original build is too reliant on those DHS to cool the ER PPCs and have way too much ammo as said already, you may want to lower to regular PPCs and add something else alongside.

[990Dreams]

I run this 1-V
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c620854799a7426

If you want PPCs try this as a base build though
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e9ec92ad0e82cf6

[ImperialKnight]

TL:DR.

I tried to optimise what OP is trying to do.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5bd420b2477da9f

[The Basilisk]

Victor Morson, on 11 February 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

1: Arm ammo is a bad idea. Move it into the head/torsos; even consider CASE.
2: That is WAY too much ammo for the number of launchers..
3: You want Artemis. While not listed, it gives a 25% boost to Streak lock time.
4: You want BAP if you're running Streaks.
5: That's pretty light firepower for an Orion.
6: That's a lot of DHS, and removing them to make some other changes can let you slap Ferro in and get a big engine boost.

Try this:
Upgraded Orion

Why would anyone considder using Ferro Fibrous armor ?!?
You get factor x1.12 points armor out of every tonn of armor BUT YOU STILL HAVE THE SAME MAX AMMOUNT.
Ah yea and it consumes 14 slots he doesn't have.

[Modo44]

The Basilisk, on 12 February 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Why would anyone considder using Ferro Fibrous armor ?!?

Because reasons.

[Tesunie]

Modo44, on 12 February 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

Because reasons.

I agree on FF for most things. If you have to choose between FF and Endo, choose endo first. FF should be a "I have more than 14 extra crit slots and want to save more weight". Normally, this limits the FF to lights, mediums and only a few Heavies.

Of course, there are also (as you point out) exceptions to every rule. Just always consider what you are trying to do with a mech. Sometimes FF will help, other times it wont. Same can be said for Artemis, and yes even Endo. (Back in the 6 PPC Stalker days, people would forgo Endo on a Stalker to cram in more DHS. With 4 PPCs, you could cram in a lot more DHS without Endo than with the weight savings of Endo. Exceptions to every rule.) Even DHS (what is normally considered a "must have") has it's exceptions. A few of the lighter mechs can't field DHS without running out of crits and not having enough crit space. (I can think of a few Locusts and Commandos that make this exception.)