I'm here to talk about one of the crappiest mechs to ever hit mechwarrior online: the locust. How do I know it's bad? I mastered all variants of it and can't find a single advantage of using one. Let me list a few issues with it.
-Not even the fastest mech in the game
-Cannot outrun a torso-mounted ac20 insta-death shot at close range
-the simple act of running damages your paper-thin armored legs, no jumpjets to soften landing
-virtually every other mech has better weapon loadouts
Did PGI just forget about balancing this mech?
Possibilities to fix:
-at least make it faster so it can actually dodge weapon fire
-more armor in legs
-less prone to fall damage(in training grounds I managed to snap off my own legs within 6 minutes with fall damage)
-smaller hitboxes
What would you guys think would help balance this mech?
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Locusts Still Terribly Underwelming
Started by Arc Viper, Feb 06 2014 05:55 PM
97 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:06 PM
What I would like to see is
-Leg armour increased to 20 on all variants
-Variants LCT-1V & LCT-3S max engine size increased from 190 to 195
Finally this isn’t a change to it technically but the rate of a Locust’s acceleration is actually faster than you will throttle up when pressing the W key. This means nearly everyone piloting one is missing out utilizing its full acceleration potential unless they work in using the set throttle to 100% bind effectively. This needs to be fixed.
-Leg armour increased to 20 on all variants
-Variants LCT-1V & LCT-3S max engine size increased from 190 to 195
Finally this isn’t a change to it technically but the rate of a Locust’s acceleration is actually faster than you will throttle up when pressing the W key. This means nearly everyone piloting one is missing out utilizing its full acceleration potential unless they work in using the set throttle to 100% bind effectively. This needs to be fixed.
#3
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- Elite Founder
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:07 PM
Locust will always be bad as long as streaks hard counter lights.
#4
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- Littlest Helper
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:10 PM
Arc Viper, on 06 February 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:
-Not even the fastest mech in the game
Welcome to the engine cap (in closed beta) because MWO hasn't applied a Cryengine upgrade to fix this.
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-Cannot outrun a torso-mounted ac20 insta-death shot at close range
Welcome to the life of a light, especially the Lolcust.
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-the simple act of running damages your paper-thin armored legs, no jumpjets to soften landing
It's admittedly backwards in MWO.. light mechs take silly leg damage... Assaults, not so much.
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-virtually every other mech has better weapon loadouts
Well, that's an understatement, but remember it is 20 tons.
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Did PGI just forget about balancing this mech?
Yes.
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-at least make it faster so it can actually dodge weapon fire
See my engine comment.
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-more armor in legs
TBH, there was "some" talk about adjusting internal armor, but nothing came of it yet.
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-less prone to fall damage(in training grounds I managed to snap off my own legs within 6 minutes with fall damage)
Indeed.
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-smaller hitboxes
That wouldn't be fair... better to adjust the mech's legs and then the hitboxes to go with it.
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What would you guys think would help balance this mech?
If you were to ask me, swap out 2 missile hardpoints and replace that with 2 energy hardpoints in the 3S. Seeing people trying to stuff 4 SRMs is asking for trouble, so swapping for lower tonnage alternatives makes a lot more sense. It'll probably make the Locust-3S a mini-Raven-3L, but at least giving it a chance to be more useful.
#5
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- The CyberKnight
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:10 PM
- Smaller leg hitboxes. The rest are fine.
- Less likely to get falling damage (adust other lights to be more resistent as well)
- ECM in one or all 3 variants
- More module slots (will matter more when there are more modules as well)
- Some kind of null sig
Could possibly be a module or a piece of equipment you can put on any mech, or innate to the chassis itself. I imagine this as behaving like ECM but only for the locust mech in question in that you have to be in close range to get targeting data (270m? without sensor boosts and locks take 50% longer to lock?)
The Locust should be used for scouting and spotting so enhancing it's ability to do that is what the goal should be. In a fight, it should be on par with a Commando.
- Less likely to get falling damage (adust other lights to be more resistent as well)
- ECM in one or all 3 variants
- More module slots (will matter more when there are more modules as well)
- Some kind of null sig
Could possibly be a module or a piece of equipment you can put on any mech, or innate to the chassis itself. I imagine this as behaving like ECM but only for the locust mech in question in that you have to be in close range to get targeting data (270m? without sensor boosts and locks take 50% longer to lock?)
The Locust should be used for scouting and spotting so enhancing it's ability to do that is what the goal should be. In a fight, it should be on par with a Commando.
#6
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:11 PM
Don't really think they need that much of a buff. Perhaps slight leg hitbox adjustment?
I really think once tonnage limits come in they will find a niche, but they will always be paper mache soft.
I really think once tonnage limits come in they will find a niche, but they will always be paper mache soft.
#7
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:11 PM
Arc Viper, on 06 February 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:
I'm here to talk about one of the crappiest mechs to ever hit mechwarrior online: the locust. How do I know it's bad? I mastered all variants of it and can't find a single advantage of using one. Let me list a few issues with it.
-Not even the fastest mech in the game
-Cannot outrun a torso-mounted ac20 insta-death shot at close range
-the simple act of running damages your paper-thin armored legs, no jumpjets to soften landing
-virtually every other mech has better weapon loadouts
Did PGI just forget about balancing this mech?
Possibilities to fix:
-at least make it faster so it can actually dodge weapon fire
-more armor in legs
-less prone to fall damage(in training grounds I managed to snap off my own legs within 6 minutes with fall damage)
-smaller hitboxes
What would you guys think would help balance this mech?
-Not even the fastest mech in the game
-Cannot outrun a torso-mounted ac20 insta-death shot at close range
-the simple act of running damages your paper-thin armored legs, no jumpjets to soften landing
-virtually every other mech has better weapon loadouts
Did PGI just forget about balancing this mech?
Possibilities to fix:
-at least make it faster so it can actually dodge weapon fire
-more armor in legs
-less prone to fall damage(in training grounds I managed to snap off my own legs within 6 minutes with fall damage)
-smaller hitboxes
What would you guys think would help balance this mech?
I've Mastered all three as well. They are not my favorite mech, but I had fun with them. As to no reason to take them, once tonnage limits are in they will have a place. Also 2 AMS can be useful, and now we have AMS range modules to boot.
Faster: Unless I am mistaken the speed limit is on hold until they work out some code issue related to speed.
More armor: Almost all, if not all, mechs have the TT armor, doubled due to weapon fire rates. So doubtful this will happen.
Fall damage: same as other mechs, they just have less. Stop jumping off cliffs except to dodge weapon fire.
Hitboxes: They are leggy mechs, not much to do here.
Or given you've mastered them, sell the two you can and move on.
#8
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:14 PM
The problem with the Locust is that there is only Combat to do...
If the game delivered on all the design pillars that were promised in the beginning, there might be ways for Mechs like the Locust to be important on the battlefield without being fast and fragile brawlers/skirmishers that they are today.
Don't hold you breath though...
If the game delivered on all the design pillars that were promised in the beginning, there might be ways for Mechs like the Locust to be important on the battlefield without being fast and fragile brawlers/skirmishers that they are today.
Don't hold you breath though...
#9
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- Littlest Helper
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:20 PM
The 3S should've gotten ECM... that's for sure.
#11
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:07 PM
Were you expecting UI to fix the Locust AND the game? Pfft, silly noob! 
I don't know, Death. At least the 3S can mount decent weaponry. With the 1V, all you get is MGs and a Large Laser. Either or both having ECM would be nice, though.
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The 3S should've gotten ECM... that's for sure.
I don't know, Death. At least the 3S can mount decent weaponry. With the 1V, all you get is MGs and a Large Laser. Either or both having ECM would be nice, though.
Edited by Trauglodyte, 06 February 2014 - 07:09 PM.
#12
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:23 PM
It's the weakest tonnage in the game for combat and pretty much only handles light vehicles or infantry with any ability.
The most legendary story about a Locust is that a guy with a single man-portable rocket was enough to make one surrender.
(Of course, he did go on to found the Grey Death Legion, but hey.)
It's the smallest thing you really can call 'Mech on the battlefield. It's only virtue is that it's better than no 'Mech at all.
The most legendary story about a Locust is that a guy with a single man-portable rocket was enough to make one surrender.
(Of course, he did go on to found the Grey Death Legion, but hey.)
It's the smallest thing you really can call 'Mech on the battlefield. It's only virtue is that it's better than no 'Mech at all.
#13
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:27 PM
I've been saying it for over a year now but the second that they implemented the engine formula, the "role" of a lot of mechs went to crap. FASA, for all of its mistakes, at least did a decent thing in giving certain mechs edges over others within weight classes. The Locust, Spider, and Cicada SHOULD be the fastest mechs that we have access. The Jenner should be decently fast but not as fast. That way, you've got lighter mechs, both in weight and in terms of weapons, still capable of doing the job with which they were intended. Now, that isn't to say that I liked FASA's standardized system but that was because they were working on hexes and not actual speeds like MWO. But, until the day comes where the Locust is naturally faster than any Jenner and other situations like that are remedied, the Locust is always going to be garbage.
#14
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:40 PM
The problem with the Locust is the same problem that will be shared with all 25 ton and below mechs... They simply don't have enough armor, even with double armor, to realistically survive in a world where weapons can front load damage.
In the BT universe, you have a bonus that makes it harder to be hit the faster you go and if you continue movement. However, in a game like this where players can control when and where they fire the weapons, with no 'random' aspect of it(as there shouldn't be in a game of this style), there is a learning curve where people will be able to achieve the firing skill to be able to reliably hit faster mechs. Since you no longer have the random element where speed provides a modifier to make it harder for the random element to land, front loading damage with weapons like the PPC and AC's prove exceptionally deadly with a sufficiently skilled group.
This will remain a problem as long as they keep weapons that have the ability to apply full damage on initial contact.
In the BT universe, you have a bonus that makes it harder to be hit the faster you go and if you continue movement. However, in a game like this where players can control when and where they fire the weapons, with no 'random' aspect of it(as there shouldn't be in a game of this style), there is a learning curve where people will be able to achieve the firing skill to be able to reliably hit faster mechs. Since you no longer have the random element where speed provides a modifier to make it harder for the random element to land, front loading damage with weapons like the PPC and AC's prove exceptionally deadly with a sufficiently skilled group.
This will remain a problem as long as they keep weapons that have the ability to apply full damage on initial contact.
#15
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:26 PM
its the only mech ive bought and then sold. ive seen them used well. but. once in a blue moon.
#16
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:30 PM
it´s a 20 t battlemech...
he is just too light to be good...
that was allways the case and will allways be the case.
And I don´t think that it has to be ballanced.
perhaps you could give the locus pilots c-bills bonus?
he is just too light to be good...
that was allways the case and will allways be the case.
And I don´t think that it has to be ballanced.
perhaps you could give the locus pilots c-bills bonus?
#17
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:03 PM
Hardes13, on 06 February 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:
it´s a 20 t battlemech...
he is just too light to be good...
that was allways the case and will allways be the case.
And I don´t think that it has to be ballanced.
perhaps you could give the locus pilots c-bills bonus?
he is just too light to be good...
that was allways the case and will allways be the case.
And I don´t think that it has to be ballanced.
perhaps you could give the locus pilots c-bills bonus?
Allow it higher speed and make it so that you cant instantly do 20+ damage to a single point and it will become more useful.
#19
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:50 PM
It is the perfect suicide mech for when you get tired of loosing 3-12 or just don't give a scrap. The two best uses I've found for the whole 2-3 minutes you live are as an arty/air striker mod mad bomber and as a single narc four ton ammo narc boat. I even had a lrm boat comment "I wish there were more like you narc boat." I'm sure in other game modes where you have to worry about capping it does ok but if you're like me and hate all that caping nonsense, the locust is a troll king among trolls in skirmish. The enemy team will laugh at you and your own team will collectivly sigh and wish you were anything but a locust.
#20
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- The Devoted
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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:26 PM
Locust is fine.
The bigger issue is the lack of weight limits.
A jenner is nearly twice the size of a locust, as are all the other "top" teir mechs.
Locusts and commando's are prefectly fine, but their only downfall is their own weight.
Both of them are excellent "weapons platform" mechs compared to other mech's like the Flea. And they all do admirably well when you take into concideration their weight, but this means nothing in an unrestricted weight game.
When taking a 35 ton mech means you can't take a highlander or heavier drop deck, you will start to see people appreciate the locusts more. But till that time, they are always going to come up short.
It doesn't mean we have to change anything though. Weight limits are coming in 3 months, Once people have to star accounting for their weight, good locust / commando pilots are going to be much more helpfull to the team as a whole.
The bigger issue is the lack of weight limits.
A jenner is nearly twice the size of a locust, as are all the other "top" teir mechs.
Locusts and commando's are prefectly fine, but their only downfall is their own weight.
Both of them are excellent "weapons platform" mechs compared to other mech's like the Flea. And they all do admirably well when you take into concideration their weight, but this means nothing in an unrestricted weight game.
When taking a 35 ton mech means you can't take a highlander or heavier drop deck, you will start to see people appreciate the locusts more. But till that time, they are always going to come up short.
It doesn't mean we have to change anything though. Weight limits are coming in 3 months, Once people have to star accounting for their weight, good locust / commando pilots are going to be much more helpfull to the team as a whole.
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