143 replies to this topic

[627]

I get more and more matches like this.

Not only is that trial stalker ridiculously bad designed, overcomplicated to use and a death trap.

The matchmaker matches at least 6 new players against what looks like 2 3man teams and experienced players.

I'm really no one who rants on these forums and there is really much QQ - but please fix this.

At least fix the Trial mech, build a simple stalker and hotfix it in. PLEASE!

And not for me. For those new players. Who get humiliated out there. Slaughtered.


We the players can write guides and make videos and what not but this won't help those poor souls.
If you let us, we will make those damn tutorials for you but this needs to be in game, not in a thread in the forums. Help them PGI. You're our last hope!




I for one refuse to shoot at another trial stalker from now on till they are fixed.

I don't care if I lose but I won't help frighten off new players anymore.

[Stelar 7]

The new guys in my group love the trial Stalker.... that does look like bad balance though.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Stelar 7, on 07 February 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

The new guys in my group love the trial Stalker.... that does look like bad balance though.

The simple fact that it has a xl engine makes it bad, and not a good mech to put new players in.

[Sandpit]

627, on 07 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I get more and more matches like this.

Not only is that trial stalker ridiculously bad designed, overcomplicated to use and a death trap.

The matchmaker matches at least 6 new players against what looks like 2 3man teams and experienced players.

I'm really no one who rants on these forums and there is really much QQ - but please fix this.

At least fix the Trial mech, build a simple stalker and hotfix it in. PLEASE!

And not for me. For those new players. Who get humiliated out there. Slaughtered.


We the players can write guides and make videos and what not but this won't help those poor souls.
If you let us, we will make those damn tutorials for you but this needs to be in game, not in a thread in the forums. Help them PGI. You're our last hope!




I for one refuse to shoot at another trial stalker from now on till they are fixed.

I don't care if I lose but I won't help frighten off new players anymore.

So you assume that players are newbs because they're running a trial mech?

That's interesting since I've been using that Stalker quite a bit since it was put in rotation (doing well with it also)

This is yet another example of why anecdotal evidence isn't much int he way of evidence. You have NO idea how long those players have been playing. None. 0. Not even a slight clue. To say "This has to stop, it's bad balancing because these stalkers are trial mechs and that shows me new players dropping with high elo (never mind the argument that YOU don't know YOUR elo much less anyone else's) players"

[FactorlanP]

Sandpit, on 07 February 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

So you assume that players are newbs because they're running a trial mech?

Well... I pulled up Acerbrus here... He joined January 12th... So he's most likely a new guy... I could check the rest of them... But I don't care that much. I already know the MatchMaker doesn't work very well...

[Bhael Fire]

The Launch Module will should get rid of most of the weird off-balanced matches weight-wise.

As for trial mechs vs experienced pilots in tricked-out mechs, that's a MM issue that does need to be addressed.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 07 February 2014 - 03:25 PM.

[Stelar 7]

xMEPHISTOx, on 07 February 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

The simple fact that it has a xl engine makes it bad, and not a good mech to put new players in.

BS.

The Stalker is one of the best mechs to learn XL engine in. Torsos are harder to hit. A Cat 3d would be mean.. but an XL Stalker is fine.

[Deathlike]

Stelar 7, on 07 February 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

BS.

The Stalker is one of the best mechs to learn XL engine in. Torsos are harder to hit. A Cat 3d would be mean.. but an XL Stalker is fine.

I'm sorry... no. The Stalker's side torsos are the #1 thing targeted, like the Atlas's right torso. So, inevitably, it dies faster than it should. If you're not targeting the Champion/Trial Stalker's side torsos, you're doing it wrong.

[NextGame]

the xl trial stalker was a real bad idea. thanks for the free kills I guess? then again, if you wanted to give new players an assault lrm boat to learn what else do u give them? an awesome 8R? just as bad in the wrong hands. the battlemaster? too new?

to learn something you do need to start somewhere.

regarding matchmaking, I will refrain in this instance, my opinion is well documented in similar threads

Edited by NextGame, 07 February 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Stelar 7, on 07 February 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

BS.

The Stalker is one of the best mechs to learn XL engine in. Torsos are harder to hit. A Cat 3d would be mean.. but an XL Stalker is fine.

Er, what? The Stalker's side torsos are massive. Rarely do I see Stalkers go down without at least one side torso going first. This Champion is a terrible mech for new brand players, because LRM boating requires a lot of knowledge about the game to effectively use that isn't immediately apparent. Further, it's a ghost heat deathtrap.

Unless you consider pushing a child into the deep end of a pool is an effective way to teach them to swim, you cannot possibly consider this mech a good beginner's mech.

[TehSBGX]

Sandpit, on 07 February 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

So you assume that players are newbs because they're running a trial mech?

That's interesting since I've been using that Stalker quite a bit since it was put in rotation (doing well with it also)

This is yet another example of why anecdotal evidence isn't much int he way of evidence. You have NO idea how long those players have been playing. None. 0. Not even a slight clue. To say "This has to stop, it's bad balancing because these stalkers are trial mechs and that shows me new players dropping with high elo (never mind the argument that YOU don't know YOUR elo much less anyone else's) players"

He's got a point, I tool around in trails for fun myself and I've been around a while.

[Deathlike]

There's a key thing about mech building that people, including PGI doesn't seem to get (and it's sadly obvious).

As much as you know how to use it, it doesn't mean the newbie will know how to use it.

When people try to copy those heavily involved with the PPC meta tend to do a crappy job of imitating... they don't "understand the weapon" nor how to "use it properly". So inevitably, there is some natural frustration. The same can be said for missile boats.

I know that I suck using missiles, but I know exactly what I do in facing missile boats. Most of the time, they trade a lot of "useful tonnage" to stuff as many bigger missile pods, AND especially ammo into the mech... even forgoing their own safety (XL engines, weak legs, or even few backup weapons) to get "just a little more". When you put something like an XL engine Stalker out vs "the wolves" that know how to tear apart the Stalker, you are literally giving the newbie very little chance to survive let alone understand what is contributing to his short and utter disastrous death.

Just because a veteran can use it, doesn't mean a newbie understands how to use it. Tutorials would help, but nothing can replace time and experience for players to master their mech and the weapons they put on them.

[Bagheera]

Stelar 7, on 07 February 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

BS.

The Stalker is one of the best mechs to learn XL engine in. Torsos are harder to hit. A Cat 3d would be mean.. but an XL Stalker is fine.

[627]

Sandpit, on 07 February 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

So you assume that players are newbs because they're running a trial mech?

That's interesting since I've been using that Stalker quite a bit since it was put in rotation (doing well with it also)

This is yet another example of why anecdotal evidence isn't much int he way of evidence. You have NO idea how long those players have been playing. None. 0. Not even a slight clue. To say "This has to stop, it's bad balancing because these stalkers are trial mechs and that shows me new players dropping with high elo (never mind the argument that YOU don't know YOUR elo much less anyone else's) players"

never said I'm high elo. I said they dropped against experienced players and what looks like some groups.
And this is not anecdotal evidence, this is an example what I experience in the last days more and more.

And I can only suggest you take a look into the new player forum and count how many threads spin around that single stalker and how bad it is designed.

And are these guys new players or just bad? You do fine in the stalker so they can too? And that is not anecdotal?

I know that the matchmaker can't be fixed in two days. But at least the trial mechs can be. And it doesn't matter that "new players in a unit" do fine with it. Of course they do, they have experienced players who explain the game to them.

This is about new players who take a look into this game. solo. And these guys need a good mech to start with. a simple mech OR some kind of tutorial/manual how to operate the mech. And a way to understand the mechanics.

[Nick Makiaveli]

627, on 07 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I get more and more matches like this.

Not only is that trial stalker ridiculously bad designed, overcomplicated to use and a death trap.

The matchmaker matches at least 6 new players against what looks like 2 3man teams and experienced players.

I'm really no one who rants on these forums and there is really much QQ - but please fix this.

At least fix the Trial mech, build a simple stalker and hotfix it in. PLEASE!

And not for me. For those new players. Who get humiliated out there. Slaughtered.


We the players can write guides and make videos and what not but this won't help those poor souls.
If you let us, we will make those damn tutorials for you but this needs to be in game, not in a thread in the forums. Help them PGI. You're our last hope!




I for one refuse to shoot at another trial stalker from now on till they are fixed.

I don't care if I lose but I won't help frighten off new players anymore.

Really? So no real proof of it but since it's a buzzword you toss it in? Makes the rest of what you say hard to take seriously, so I didn't.

[Solis Obscuri]

FRR is OP.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I think that if you've been playing the game since closed beta, with a decent track record for winning matches and killing mechs, you shouldn't be dropping with or against newbies period. That's not to say that all players running champion mechs or trial mechs are necessarily new (I fought against a NGNG-streamed 4 stock CTF-4X premade and lost), but I'd hazard a guess that most of them are. Especially the ones running the Champion build.

Granted, I don't know if the playerbase is necessarily large enough to support this ideal, but it's a good ideal to have.

[627]

TehSBGX, on 07 February 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

He's got a point, I tool around in trails for fun myself and I've been around a while.

It's pretty easy to tell who is piloting those trial stalkers.
I've seen some guys doing really decent in it, knowing how to operate it and how to defend themselves against light mechs (=me).

And then there are those who shoot LRMs at you point blank. Who run in a straight line, trying to turn to see what hits them back there, only to smash into the next building.
I don't care about veteran players in trials. Or if I offend anyone of you with this.

It's the new players I care about.
I want them to stay, not to leave.

[AC]

627, on 07 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I get more and more matches like this.

Not only is that trial stalker ridiculously bad designed, overcomplicated to use and a death trap.

The matchmaker matches at least 6 new players against what looks like 2 3man teams and experienced players.

I'm really no one who rants on these forums and there is really much QQ - but please fix this.

At least fix the Trial mech, build a simple stalker and hotfix it in. PLEASE!

And not for me. For those new players. Who get humiliated out there. Slaughtered.


We the players can write guides and make videos and what not but this won't help those poor souls.
If you let us, we will make those damn tutorials for you but this needs to be in game, not in a thread in the forums. Help them PGI. You're our last hope!




I for one refuse to shoot at another trial stalker from now on till they are fixed.

I don't care if I lose but I won't help frighten off new players anymore.

What do you mean more and more.... This is the result of every match I was in last night. Be it win or loss....

[Sandpit]

FactorlanP, on 07 February 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well... I pulled up Acerbrus here... He joined January 12th... So he's most likely a new guy... I could check the rest of them... But I don't care that much. I already know the MatchMaker doesn't work very well...

That jsut shows forum join date, not how long they've been playing. (I used to think the same thing actually so I can understand the confusion there)

Point being this is why anecdotal evidence just isn't evidence of much. I know several vets taht have been running around in the Stalker and I don't care what anyone else's opinion of that particular mech is, I like it, it's a good mech, and I do well in it (as do some of the teammates I drop with).

It is NOT a brawler of any kind. It's a support mech. It's a GREAT mech for teaching new players how to use a fire support mech. It has 4 LRM15s + Artemis and 1250 rounds of ammo. You don't like it? Ok, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it's a "bad" mech, nor that it's poorly designed.

Telling others who do like it that they're wrong would be no different than me telling you one of your personal builds is "wrong" because I don't like it and can't use it effectively. If you're REALLY that concerned about new players not understanding how to use it properly then give advice and tips when you see a player making mistakes.

I often give advice on how to target, zoom in, etc. when I'm spectating. Sometimes they're thankful, sometimes they say STFU, i'm not a noob (although that would be hard to tell judging from their piloting at the time )

The stalker is universally regarded as one of the best assaults in the game. This particular build doesn't implement any of the "meta" weapons so it's bashed.

AC, on 07 February 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

What do you mean more and more.... This is the result of every match I was in last night. Be it win or loss....

[citation needed]

Sandpit, on 07 February 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

If you're REALLY that concerned about new players not understanding how to use it properly then give advice and tips when you see a player making mistakes.

I often give advice on how to target, zoom in, etc. when I'm spectating. Sometimes they're thankful, sometimes they say STFU, i'm not a noob (although that would be hard to tell judging from their piloting at the time )

627, on 07 February 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

It's the new players I care about.
I want them to stay, not to leave.

So do I. We have to have retention to grow. I just don't think your example shows where new players are getting stomped.